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Continuum's with split personality. My first DIY build.

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  • #16
    Re: Continuum's with split personality. My first DIY build.

    Originally posted by fakeout
    Not to burst your bubble, but I read brass bolts/screws sound better.
    I'll consider my bubble burst.
    DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
    The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
    The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
    The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
    AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Continuum's with split personality. My first DIY build.

      Originally posted by tyger23 View Post
      I'm sure he would have. His customer service has been fantastic. I just didn't want to wait another week for parts to arrive when it only costs me $5 at the local shop.

      His kit included absolutely everything for the build except the cabinet. Hurricane nuts and bolts for the front baffles, an option of hurricane nuts and bolts or wood screws for the tweeter, bolts and lock nuts for the woofers, gasket tape (enough for the drivers, but not enough for the baffles), crimp-on terminal spades, speaker wire, crossover parts, and drivers.

      Speaking of the crossover - I was assuming that the crossover design you used would require the tweet and woofer to be out of phase from each other. The schematics from Meniscus indicated in-phase, so I wired them in-phase. Can you just confirm why in phase works with this crossover?
      Proper phasing is a complex relationship. It depends on a combination of crossover slope, crossover point, the natural response and roll-off of the drivers themselves, and the relative acoustic offset (or the difference in the acoustic center locations) between the two drivers. In most cases, a design like this one ends up requiring an in-phase crossover. In fact, those requiring a reverse polarity connection are rare. In the Continumm both drivers are definitely connected with the same polarity, and the speaker has essentially the same phase rotation as a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley crossover. So, despite the fact that the woofer is rolled off shallower than this, it would technically fall into the LR4 family due to the offset requiring asymmetrical slopes.

      Jeff
      Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Continuum's with split personality. My first DIY build.

        Originally posted by fakeout
        Jeff, I don't want to annoy everyone on the planet with this question but since you've designed speakers, have you ever tried combining woofers with 3 inch full range drivers? Some people like Planet10 at diyaudio insist on full rangers or FAST (woofers with full rangers). Am I missing something? I don't completely get it.
        That's OK. I'll annoy people with my answer, probably. I have built a Jordan JX92S with a woofer. I have also played around with a Mark Audio Alpair10. My personal opinion is that people who believe a fullrange driver offers better results than a woofer and tweeter with a properly designed crossover are fooling themselves. But hey, everyone has their own opinion, right?
        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Continuum's with split personality. My first DIY build.

          Originally posted by fakeout
          Well, I mean people say there are pros and cons and there are opinions. Thanks though. Because I found there's an almost absolute dearth of FAST designs out there compared to woofer/tweeter designs. So, it certainly makes it more simple for me.

          (I still have several drivers to experiment with but I always wanted to experiment to learn audio anyway.)
          Although a lot a full-range drivers can sould quite pleasing under the right conditions for casual listening, like your computer speakers or your boom-box, for example. In home hifi we tend to listen at a greater distance and at a higher level, and this poses some problems for them. Typically a full-range driver has much higher distortion at high frequency than a tweeter will have, and the loss of high frequency energy in the power response can really change the character of the sound being reproduced. If these are not an issue, and someone feels full-rangers are more coherent to them, then I guess the choice is an individual one.
          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: qbnbntaeo

            Piccolos are inferior to the Continuums, IMO.
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: qbnbntaeo

              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
              Piccolos are inferior to the Continuums, IMO.
              Wolf
              What about the Mandolin? Are they also inferior to the Continuum.

              Jeff, what about your new 2 way satori, when we will hear mire details about it? Is there any 3 way equivalent of the Continuum?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: qbnbntaeo

                IMO- yep- the Mandolin are also smoke by the Continuums at least to 70Hz.

                The Satori tweeters are as yet not on the market.

                The Continuum 2.1 is Jeff's answer to the '3-way' question.
                Later,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: qbnbntaeo

                  Originally posted by fakeout
                  Why did you choose the Continuum instead of the Picolos? I though the Picolos had more bass.
                  Bass wasn't a large factor for me. I'm using these as desktop reference monitors at relatively low to moderate volume. At these volume levels, even the Piccolo's wouldn't be able to produce satisfying bass without artificial improvement. Don't get me wrong, I plan to stretch the legs of my Continuums every once in a while, but not on a normal basis.

                  I was mostly interested in having a true vocal reference monitor - and everything I've ever read about the Continuum's pointed to their being the best choice. Also, the cabinets for the Continuum's are hardwood (which I wanted to try). I guess you could make a Piccolo out of hardwood, but MDF is recommended.

                  Oh, and to top it off, I've got a 10" Klipsch reference sub under my desk. Bass is no issue. Vocal reproduction is of utmost importance.

                  So, it just depends on what you want to accomplish. I wanted the Continuum's.
                  DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                  The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                  The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                  The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                  AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: qbnbntaeo

                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                    Piccolos are inferior to the Continuums, IMO.
                    Wolf
                    Oh yeah, and I've seen that exact statement written before, so the Continuum's got the easy nod. And they're cheaper (at least for the kit).
                    DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                    The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                    The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                    The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                    AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: qbnbntaeo

                      Very nice work!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: qbnbntaeo

                        Anyone wanting a bit more bass out of Continuums can build the Continuum MLTL. MLTL with 38.5 sq in. cross section, interior height at 40", woofer set 7.5" from the interior top, 2" dia X 3" long port set 2" from inteior bottom, stuffing in top half to taste.

                        Search on Tzu Jan or Continuum TL should find some comments on bass quality. They actually go much lower than you'd expect.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: qbnbntaeo

                          Those look awesome, man.
                          Plus I learned about two cool local shops in this thread that I didn't know about before.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: qbnbntaeo

                            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                            IMO- yep- the Mandolin are also smoke by the Continuums at least to 70Hz.

                            The Satori tweeters are as yet not on the market.

                            The Continuum 2.1 is Jeff's answer to the '3-way' question.
                            Later,
                            Wolf
                            Each of the speakers listed in the posts above are different and each has its place. The Continuum isn't always the better choice between it and the Piccolo in my opinion. If the speakers are placed on a stand, out from the walls, running without a subwoofer, then the Piccolo has a more natural tonal balance and a more extended, more balanced low end. For many people, especially those who don't want their music real loud, this would tip the scale in that direction for them.

                            If the speakers are near a boundary at all, or the subwoofer is turned on then the Continuum stands out as the superior speaker. Don't get me wrong, I love the Continuum by itself, but it is not as extended as the Piccolo, so head to head the Piccolo has a lower end that the Continuum doesn't have for the same size speaker. And if the Continuum is running by itself and turned up loud the lack of low bass can sometimes really make itself known.

                            Now, having said that, the Continuum has the lowest non-linear distortion of any of the speakers listed and I think that really contributes to its sonic character. That was not a conscious design goal. I mean I always want low distortion, but it just worked out that the Continuum has the lowest distortion across the board over all of the SB designs. This is especially true in the bass too. So, although it is not as extended as the Piccolo, it has much lower distortion at 100Hz and an octave on either side.

                            I have my Continuums set up right now with my subs on and they are amazingly clean and transparent. Right now, the 2.1 version (or 2.2 as I am runnng things) is my preferred way to run the Continuums. I have often thought of incorporating the Continuum as the midrange and tweeter in the true three-way speaker, but I would probably be forced to a pretty low crossover point with the woofer to maintain continuity and keep the magic of the Continuum, and then I may be back to subwoofer range getting pretty close again.

                            The Kairos are arguably the most accurate speaker of the bunch with the flattest frequency response and excellent overall phase response. I love the speaker and will listen with it for long stretches. Unfortunately, SB just hasn't gotten around to releasing the tweeter yet. I don't know why. Hopefully someday. This will be an expensive kit, but in my opinion it will be worth it.

                            Jeff B.
                            Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: qbnbntaeo

                              Jeff - That's awesome information. I would have loved to see this prior to choosing the Continuum's, but I was able to essentially gather the same information over searching many different forum posts. It essentially confirms what I thought (and is currently being proven to me) - the Continuum's are the best choice for my application.

                              Maybe it would be awesome to have a "buyer's guide" to your designs? Maybe the same from Wolf, Paul, and the other phenominal designers on this board that I didn't mention? Just a thought.


                              Oh, and DANG, these things sound friggin amazing.


                              I've already had to make big changes to my analog sources supply music. My NAD amp is keeping up just fine, but I had to abandon my XM radio. I know music over XM is horribly compressed, but it never mattered to me until I listened over these speakers. So, I switched over to using Pandora and XM from my computer (streaming from the internet). Oddly enough, there's much better fidelity when streaming XM over the internet than when using one of their dedicated radios.

                              However that wasn't enough. I also had to add in a (self built and designed) custom line-driver between my computer and my NAD to improve the sound quality further. My line-driver greatly improves the treble, clarity, and realism of the music running through it. Previously, I used it on my headphones only, but now I have to use it on my Continuums. These things are really giving my Sennheiser HD cans a run for their money.

                              Bravo, Jeff!
                              DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                              The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                              The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                              The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                              AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: qbnbntaeo

                                Didn't want to rob the other guy's thread .

                                Those look amazing! I love the creativity. That grade of oak w/ the maple and walnut works well! I'm sure you get a lot of comments about what kind of wood you used! And the danish oil ties it all together very well; good choice!

                                Just curious, are the continuums designed w/ solid hardwood? Only curious because we always hear arguments for what wood is better between bb and mdf and that solid hardwood is a bad idea because of inconsistent density. Guess you rocked that one :D! Well done! I'd love to hear a pair of those someday.

                                As far as challenging yourself on the woodworking front, I'd say major score
                                "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                                "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

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