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Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

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  • #16
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by Leroy R View Post
    How far along is your construction? If you can use 2x6 upper and lower plates and staggered 2x4 studs on your exterior walls, this will help as your interior drywall and exterior siding will be attached to seperate studs. You can also double up on your drywall with a layer of adhesive between. If you really want to go all out, I believe they actually make a sound absorbing drywall.
    I dont know the exact construction details behind how to do it, by my best buddy is a GC and he explained to me that staggering 2x4 and 2x6 studs like Leroy mentioned, while interweaving insulation width wise through the walls is in fact how acoustic walls are built at least in this area. My buddy spent 15 years in the Boston carpenters union and built everything from BU dorms, to banks and hotels with this process. Though of course they use mainly metal studs now a days.

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    • #17
      Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

      Originally posted by Leroy R View Post
      How far along is your construction? If you can use 2x6 upper and lower plates and staggered 2x4 studs on your exterior walls, this will help as your interior drywall and exterior siding will be attached to seperate studs.
      +1, and this also prevents stud-through heat transmission. Keeps the house cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, and quieter all year long.
      www.billfitzmaurice.com
      www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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      • #18
        Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

        Step 1:

        Why don't you test it out! put a subwoofer in your 2nd floor and play it at night and see how far it carries. Then you will understand the magnitude of your problem if you have a problem at all. And unless you are playing driving dance music all night long, don't forget the instance of your subwoofer going off full gong is going to be sporadic and unlikely very disturbing to your neighbors. No more disturbing than a passing truck hitting a small bump in the road.

        There are many factors to consider, but stop assuming you're going to have a problem and confirm it.
        “Never ask people about your work.”
        ― Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

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        • #19
          Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

          Originally posted by Sydney View Post
          You might be surprised - I've heard my neighbors talking ( not legibly ) at that distance, and they have heard me testing my speakers.
          My HT room is on the end of my house. If I play a bass heavy Fleetwood Mac DVD concert at about 95 dB in my room. I can walk outside to my neighbors house which is about 40 feet away, and barely hear it. He can sometimes tell I'm cranking it, if he's in his den which was added onto the back of his house. That's about 80 feet away, and there's only a sliding glass door to stop the sound. When I play an action movie, I might have LFE bump 110 dB in the room once or twice during a movie. He's more likely to notice that, but unless it is nonstop, he probably would not even be able to tell it's me, as opposed to someone closing a car door, or trunk, etc. It's certainly not loud enough for any reasonable person to take issue with. At 200 yards, I doubt anyone could hear my HT from inside their house. My house has brick veneer.

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          • #20
            Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

            Originally posted by rpb View Post
            You must be joking. You think your system will be heard over half a mile away?
            Sorry... I intended to write the neighbor is a thousand FEET away. Now that I look again it's more like 600 feet... not very far. The new building is near the boundary between our properties. BTW, the nearest highway is approximately 3.5 miles from my house as the crow flies and, if atmospheric conditions are right, I can often hear boomers from that far away... certainly not enough to annoy but I can hear them.

            The structure is already built. The floors are 2x8 and the walls are typical 2x4 evenly spaced. The exterior is typical exterior fiberboard.

            I know I can't do anything about structure/wall resonances other than with careful subwoofer placement, hence the vertical (upward/downward) firing scheme. These will also be placed in two corners so direct motor movement of the structure is absolutely minimized.

            It's not my closest neighbors who blast their music... they're usually pretty quiet. It's the one a tenth mile away (maybe a bit farther) who does that. Maybe I'll build an acoustic lens to deal with them. They play Tejano and country music so a little rap and hip-hop should drive them insane.:D

            After reading the replies here and giving this more thought, I believe there's not much else I can do. The issue is not so much "air pressure escaping" but rather structural (mostly wall) resonances excited by direct motor movement and ULF. Nothing can be done about that now.

            I would have built an underground concrete bunker but don't have the funds for that.:D Someday I'll probably add a layer of Hardiplank siding which may help a little bit but that's a few years away.
            "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
            ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

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            • #21
              Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

              Hey guys,

              I just wanted to add a little to this thread.

              As many of you know I am fairly new to the wonderful world of DIY speaker building. But years ago I used to run sound for my old church and did sound for several local rock bands in southern California. My old friend Pete (God rest his soul) was a full blown electrocoustical engineer and he taught me how to run live sound. When we were building the inside of our church building which was a 20K sqf warehouse he showed me how to do sound proofing. Now some of this information may be outdated so please feel free to add to this information, but this is what Pete showed me and you could not hear the church band playing in other classes, so it must work well.

              In southern California it is universal fire code to build a wall 16" on center with staggered fire blocks half way up the wall. We used R33 crafted face insulation between the studs and two 5/8" sheets of drywall on each side. A standard 5/8" drywall sheet has a STC of 42 and with two sheets each side and the R33 you should have no problems.

              The way to install it would be to get your crafted face R33 and cut to fit between each stud. There is normally excess so there should not be any gaps. Then use glue on each stud and lay the sheet on its side. Screw it in good and tight. When you do your second layer glue it to the first layer and screw it down good and tight.

              Do this for each wall and ceiling. There is also STC rated flooring you can buy too if you have a subframe floor.

              Hope this helps your efforts!

              Kevin
              Shaken, not stirred...

              Classix II
              OS MTM's
              Digger 8 sub
              Overnight Sensations Center Channel
              Sprite Build
              Wolf's PC Speakers
              Minions III with Voxel Sub

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              • #22
                Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                Originally posted by Tin_Ears View Post
                Sorry... I intended to write the neighbor is a thousand FEET away. Now that I look again it's more like 600 feet... not very far. The new building is near the boundary between our properties. BTW, the nearest highway is approximately 3.5 miles from my house as the crow flies and, if atmospheric conditions are right, I can often hear boomers from that far away... certainly not enough to annoy but I can hear them.

                The structure is already built. The floors are 2x8 and the walls are typical 2x4 evenly spaced. The exterior is typical exterior fiberboard.

                I know I can't do anything about structure/wall resonances other than with careful subwoofer placement, hence the vertical (upward/downward) firing scheme. These will also be placed in two corners so direct motor movement of the structure is absolutely minimized.

                It's not my closest neighbors who blast their music... they're usually pretty quiet. It's the one a tenth mile away (maybe a bit farther) who does that. Maybe I'll build an acoustic lens to deal with them. They play Tejano and country music so a little rap and hip-hop should drive them insane.:D

                After reading the replies here and giving this more thought, I believe there's not much else I can do. The issue is not so much "air pressure escaping" but rather structural (mostly wall) resonances excited by direct motor movement and ULF. Nothing can be done about that now.

                I would have built an underground concrete bunker but don't have the funds for that.:D Someday I'll probably add a layer of Hardiplank siding which may help a little bit but that's a few years away.
                I'd play the sub with test tones, or music, and walk over to your neighbors house, and see if it's loud enough to notice, and at what room spl. If it is a problem at a specific frequency, perhaps you could wire a bandpass sub up in a fashion that would partially cancel that frequency. The port could be run through a wall using 4" pvc, or it could be made rectangular using plywood. If you check with your neighbor, they may even tell you it's not a problem, even though they may hear it on occasion. My neighbor plays his bass guitar at 2 am sometimes, and once in a while it wakes me up. Usually, I fall right back to sleep. I told him about this thread last night, and he said that he only heard my system when his sliding glass door was open. Otherwise, I suspect that it was drowned out by his TV, or air conditioning units.

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                • #23
                  Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                  Originally posted by rpb View Post
                  ...he said that he only heard my system when his sliding glass door was open....
                  That makes an enormous difference as the sound radiates out from that opening. If one were willing to always keep all doors and windows closed it ( noise ) probably wouldn't be an issue.
                  "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                  “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                  "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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                  • #24
                    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                    Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
                    In southern California it is universal fire code to build a wall 16" on center with staggered fire blocks half way up the wall. We used R33 crafted face insulation between the studs and two 5/8" sheets of drywall on each side. A standard 5/8" drywall sheet has a STC of 42 and with two sheets each side and the R33 you should have no problems.

                    The way to install it would be to get your crafted face R33 and cut to fit between each stud. There is normally excess so there should not be any gaps. Then use glue on each stud and lay the sheet on its side. Screw it in good and tight. When you do your second layer glue it to the first layer and screw it down good and tight.
                    The reason stagger-stud is so effective is that it eliminates a direct mechanical coupling from one side of the wall to the other side of the wall. The gap between the walls (created by using two sets of studs) ensures no physical, mechanical vibrations will be traveling through the drywall, into the stud and out the drywall on the other side.

                    One reason that your friend's method seemed to work is that you increased the mass by doubling up the drywall. When it comes to blocking low frequencies, mass definitely helps. A wall made from cinder blocks would go a long way towards blocking unwanted bass. By the way, fiberglass doesn't do much of anything to block loud, deep bass.

                    If you tested the double layer drywall method against a stagger-studded wall... both would do very well at frequencies above 100Hz. But my bet would be that the stagger-studded wall provided better sound proofing of deep bass (25Hz). Not that your friend's method is bad, but by screwing all those layers together, you've provided a physical path for vibrations to travel through... and then out the other side. The extra mass helped, but doesn't solve the problem completely. Separating the wall into two distinct halves really helps.(stagger-stud)
                    ~Marty

                    Baby Eidolons
                    Sapphos
                    Cables (Post #54)
                    Other speakers (Post #21)
                    Design Thoughts (Posts: 6,10,13,33,35)
                    Boundary Augmentation
                    Dispersion/Interference

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                    • #25
                      Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                      That sounds cool. We weren't trying to block low freqs like that. It was church and the deepest bass we had was a bass guitar and kick drum. So the method you described might be his best bet. When you build using this method you are constructing a second wall? How does it all go together?
                      Shaken, not stirred...

                      Classix II
                      OS MTM's
                      Digger 8 sub
                      Overnight Sensations Center Channel
                      Sprite Build
                      Wolf's PC Speakers
                      Minions III with Voxel Sub

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                        Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
                        When you build using this method you are constructing a second wall? How does it all go together?
                        Post #14.
                        www.billfitzmaurice.com
                        www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                        • #27
                          Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                          I found some sites with info on them. Here is a site that has instructions for building a staggered stud wall. I saw that they are using my friends methods of sound proofing. They are just staggering the studs or you can install clips to move the drywall out from the studs and screw the drywall to the clips. Works basically the same way. You just remove the old drywall install the clips and brackets and install the new drywall using a double layer of 5/8" drywall with the glue I spoke of. I also saw that they use insulation in the wall. I looked up info about it and the higher the R value the greater the STC. So using the R33 would provide added benefit. I would think using the staggered method with double 5/8 drywall and that glue would be your best bet, and then you would be set!
                          Shaken, not stirred...

                          Classix II
                          OS MTM's
                          Digger 8 sub
                          Overnight Sensations Center Channel
                          Sprite Build
                          Wolf's PC Speakers
                          Minions III with Voxel Sub

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                            Originally posted by ReissM View Post
                            The reason stagger-stud is so effective is that it eliminates a direct mechanical coupling from one side of the wall to the other side of the wall. The gap between the walls (created by using two sets of studs) ensures no physical, mechanical vibrations will be traveling through the drywall, into the stud and out the drywall on the other side.
                            Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                            +1, and this also prevents stud-through heat transmission. Keeps the house cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, and quieter all year long.
                            +2 This should work quite well.

                            BTW Hi Bill hope all is well my friend !
                            ~ Mankind's Great Problem Is A Perfection Of Means But A Confusion Of Ends ~ Einstein

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                            • #29
                              Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                              Consider this....

                              I've benn experimenting with IB subs this last year or so and here is what I found.

                              They have to be push pull slot loaded with a manifold that has at lease 2:1 compresion. Manifold area 1/2 that of both cones. The push pull config counterballances the reaction of the woofers and greatly reducing the "hit" against the house. One woofer with a 60gram cone can shake the entire wall at even low levels.

                              Now, what woofer to use...The PE IB385-8 is the most readily available woofer designed just for this use. Ive found that the Qts doesn't have to be so high to work well. I used a AE td15s with a Qt about .4 and it worked as well as the AE IB15. So any woofer with QT above .4 and FS below 25hz, will work look for a high Vas too, for higher eff.

                              Take a look at the Peavey 18" low rider or Eminence Delta pro-18 woofers. As they are they don't meet the Qt and Fs requirements but...add 50-70grams of mass to the cones and Who Lawd! you got yourself 4 93 DB 18" woofers that'll do low 20s.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

                                Originally posted by scholl View Post
                                The push pull config counterballances the reaction of the woofers and greatly reducing the "hit" against the house.
                                Measure SPL in room and outside the house. You'll find that for a given SPL in the room the SPL outside the house will be the same irrespective of the enclosure alignment used.
                                www.billfitzmaurice.com
                                www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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