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Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

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  • Sydney
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Tin Ears didn't mention what existed between him and the neighbors.
    Noise that "escapes" can be attenuated between the two via barriers ( planted and erected )

    Leave a comment:


  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by scholl View Post
    The push pull config counterballances the reaction of the woofers and greatly reducing the "hit" against the house.
    Measure SPL in room and outside the house. You'll find that for a given SPL in the room the SPL outside the house will be the same irrespective of the enclosure alignment used.

    Leave a comment:


  • scholl
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Consider this....

    I've benn experimenting with IB subs this last year or so and here is what I found.

    They have to be push pull slot loaded with a manifold that has at lease 2:1 compresion. Manifold area 1/2 that of both cones. The push pull config counterballances the reaction of the woofers and greatly reducing the "hit" against the house. One woofer with a 60gram cone can shake the entire wall at even low levels.

    Now, what woofer to use...The PE IB385-8 is the most readily available woofer designed just for this use. Ive found that the Qts doesn't have to be so high to work well. I used a AE td15s with a Qt about .4 and it worked as well as the AE IB15. So any woofer with QT above .4 and FS below 25hz, will work look for a high Vas too, for higher eff.

    Take a look at the Peavey 18" low rider or Eminence Delta pro-18 woofers. As they are they don't meet the Qt and Fs requirements but...add 50-70grams of mass to the cones and Who Lawd! you got yourself 4 93 DB 18" woofers that'll do low 20s.

    Leave a comment:


  • Altec Best
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by ReissM View Post
    The reason stagger-stud is so effective is that it eliminates a direct mechanical coupling from one side of the wall to the other side of the wall. The gap between the walls (created by using two sets of studs) ensures no physical, mechanical vibrations will be traveling through the drywall, into the stud and out the drywall on the other side.
    Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
    +1, and this also prevents stud-through heat transmission. Keeps the house cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, and quieter all year long.
    +2 This should work quite well.

    BTW Hi Bill hope all is well my friend !

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    I found some sites with info on them. Here is a site that has instructions for building a staggered stud wall. I saw that they are using my friends methods of sound proofing. They are just staggering the studs or you can install clips to move the drywall out from the studs and screw the drywall to the clips. Works basically the same way. You just remove the old drywall install the clips and brackets and install the new drywall using a double layer of 5/8" drywall with the glue I spoke of. I also saw that they use insulation in the wall. I looked up info about it and the higher the R value the greater the STC. So using the R33 would provide added benefit. I would think using the staggered method with double 5/8 drywall and that glue would be your best bet, and then you would be set!

    Leave a comment:


  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
    When you build using this method you are constructing a second wall? How does it all go together?
    Post #14.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    That sounds cool. We weren't trying to block low freqs like that. It was church and the deepest bass we had was a bass guitar and kick drum. So the method you described might be his best bet. When you build using this method you are constructing a second wall? How does it all go together?

    Leave a comment:


  • ReissM
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
    In southern California it is universal fire code to build a wall 16" on center with staggered fire blocks half way up the wall. We used R33 crafted face insulation between the studs and two 5/8" sheets of drywall on each side. A standard 5/8" drywall sheet has a STC of 42 and with two sheets each side and the R33 you should have no problems.

    The way to install it would be to get your crafted face R33 and cut to fit between each stud. There is normally excess so there should not be any gaps. Then use glue on each stud and lay the sheet on its side. Screw it in good and tight. When you do your second layer glue it to the first layer and screw it down good and tight.
    The reason stagger-stud is so effective is that it eliminates a direct mechanical coupling from one side of the wall to the other side of the wall. The gap between the walls (created by using two sets of studs) ensures no physical, mechanical vibrations will be traveling through the drywall, into the stud and out the drywall on the other side.

    One reason that your friend's method seemed to work is that you increased the mass by doubling up the drywall. When it comes to blocking low frequencies, mass definitely helps. A wall made from cinder blocks would go a long way towards blocking unwanted bass. By the way, fiberglass doesn't do much of anything to block loud, deep bass.

    If you tested the double layer drywall method against a stagger-studded wall... both would do very well at frequencies above 100Hz. But my bet would be that the stagger-studded wall provided better sound proofing of deep bass (25Hz). Not that your friend's method is bad, but by screwing all those layers together, you've provided a physical path for vibrations to travel through... and then out the other side. The extra mass helped, but doesn't solve the problem completely. Separating the wall into two distinct halves really helps.(stagger-stud)

    Leave a comment:


  • Sydney
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    ...he said that he only heard my system when his sliding glass door was open....
    That makes an enormous difference as the sound radiates out from that opening. If one were willing to always keep all doors and windows closed it ( noise ) probably wouldn't be an issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpb
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by Tin_Ears View Post
    Sorry... I intended to write the neighbor is a thousand FEET away. Now that I look again it's more like 600 feet... not very far. The new building is near the boundary between our properties. BTW, the nearest highway is approximately 3.5 miles from my house as the crow flies and, if atmospheric conditions are right, I can often hear boomers from that far away... certainly not enough to annoy but I can hear them.

    The structure is already built. The floors are 2x8 and the walls are typical 2x4 evenly spaced. The exterior is typical exterior fiberboard.

    I know I can't do anything about structure/wall resonances other than with careful subwoofer placement, hence the vertical (upward/downward) firing scheme. These will also be placed in two corners so direct motor movement of the structure is absolutely minimized.

    It's not my closest neighbors who blast their music... they're usually pretty quiet. It's the one a tenth mile away (maybe a bit farther) who does that. Maybe I'll build an acoustic lens to deal with them. They play Tejano and country music so a little rap and hip-hop should drive them insane.:D

    After reading the replies here and giving this more thought, I believe there's not much else I can do. The issue is not so much "air pressure escaping" but rather structural (mostly wall) resonances excited by direct motor movement and ULF. Nothing can be done about that now.

    I would have built an underground concrete bunker but don't have the funds for that.:D Someday I'll probably add a layer of Hardiplank siding which may help a little bit but that's a few years away.
    I'd play the sub with test tones, or music, and walk over to your neighbors house, and see if it's loud enough to notice, and at what room spl. If it is a problem at a specific frequency, perhaps you could wire a bandpass sub up in a fashion that would partially cancel that frequency. The port could be run through a wall using 4" pvc, or it could be made rectangular using plywood. If you check with your neighbor, they may even tell you it's not a problem, even though they may hear it on occasion. My neighbor plays his bass guitar at 2 am sometimes, and once in a while it wakes me up. Usually, I fall right back to sleep. I told him about this thread last night, and he said that he only heard my system when his sliding glass door was open. Otherwise, I suspect that it was drowned out by his TV, or air conditioning units.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Hey guys,

    I just wanted to add a little to this thread.

    As many of you know I am fairly new to the wonderful world of DIY speaker building. But years ago I used to run sound for my old church and did sound for several local rock bands in southern California. My old friend Pete (God rest his soul) was a full blown electrocoustical engineer and he taught me how to run live sound. When we were building the inside of our church building which was a 20K sqf warehouse he showed me how to do sound proofing. Now some of this information may be outdated so please feel free to add to this information, but this is what Pete showed me and you could not hear the church band playing in other classes, so it must work well.

    In southern California it is universal fire code to build a wall 16" on center with staggered fire blocks half way up the wall. We used R33 crafted face insulation between the studs and two 5/8" sheets of drywall on each side. A standard 5/8" drywall sheet has a STC of 42 and with two sheets each side and the R33 you should have no problems.

    The way to install it would be to get your crafted face R33 and cut to fit between each stud. There is normally excess so there should not be any gaps. Then use glue on each stud and lay the sheet on its side. Screw it in good and tight. When you do your second layer glue it to the first layer and screw it down good and tight.

    Do this for each wall and ceiling. There is also STC rated flooring you can buy too if you have a subframe floor.

    Hope this helps your efforts!

    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • Tin_Ears
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    You must be joking. You think your system will be heard over half a mile away?
    Sorry... I intended to write the neighbor is a thousand FEET away. Now that I look again it's more like 600 feet... not very far. The new building is near the boundary between our properties. BTW, the nearest highway is approximately 3.5 miles from my house as the crow flies and, if atmospheric conditions are right, I can often hear boomers from that far away... certainly not enough to annoy but I can hear them.

    The structure is already built. The floors are 2x8 and the walls are typical 2x4 evenly spaced. The exterior is typical exterior fiberboard.

    I know I can't do anything about structure/wall resonances other than with careful subwoofer placement, hence the vertical (upward/downward) firing scheme. These will also be placed in two corners so direct motor movement of the structure is absolutely minimized.

    It's not my closest neighbors who blast their music... they're usually pretty quiet. It's the one a tenth mile away (maybe a bit farther) who does that. Maybe I'll build an acoustic lens to deal with them. They play Tejano and country music so a little rap and hip-hop should drive them insane.:D

    After reading the replies here and giving this more thought, I believe there's not much else I can do. The issue is not so much "air pressure escaping" but rather structural (mostly wall) resonances excited by direct motor movement and ULF. Nothing can be done about that now.

    I would have built an underground concrete bunker but don't have the funds for that.:D Someday I'll probably add a layer of Hardiplank siding which may help a little bit but that's a few years away.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpb
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by Sydney View Post
    You might be surprised - I've heard my neighbors talking ( not legibly ) at that distance, and they have heard me testing my speakers.
    My HT room is on the end of my house. If I play a bass heavy Fleetwood Mac DVD concert at about 95 dB in my room. I can walk outside to my neighbors house which is about 40 feet away, and barely hear it. He can sometimes tell I'm cranking it, if he's in his den which was added onto the back of his house. That's about 80 feet away, and there's only a sliding glass door to stop the sound. When I play an action movie, I might have LFE bump 110 dB in the room once or twice during a movie. He's more likely to notice that, but unless it is nonstop, he probably would not even be able to tell it's me, as opposed to someone closing a car door, or trunk, etc. It's certainly not loud enough for any reasonable person to take issue with. At 200 yards, I doubt anyone could hear my HT from inside their house. My house has brick veneer.

    Leave a comment:


  • DE Focht
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Step 1:

    Why don't you test it out! put a subwoofer in your 2nd floor and play it at night and see how far it carries. Then you will understand the magnitude of your problem if you have a problem at all. And unless you are playing driving dance music all night long, don't forget the instance of your subwoofer going off full gong is going to be sporadic and unlikely very disturbing to your neighbors. No more disturbing than a passing truck hitting a small bump in the road.

    There are many factors to consider, but stop assuming you're going to have a problem and confirm it.

    Leave a comment:


  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    Re: Is My House a Giant Boom-Box??

    Originally posted by Leroy R View Post
    How far along is your construction? If you can use 2x6 upper and lower plates and staggered 2x4 studs on your exterior walls, this will help as your interior drywall and exterior siding will be attached to seperate studs.
    +1, and this also prevents stud-through heat transmission. Keeps the house cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, and quieter all year long.

    Leave a comment:

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