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PSD-Lite Beta 2

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  • Audio4me
    replied
    first of all , thank you for your work, neil.
    i would ask you if in the future will be some updates for psd (not your priority) and first of all where download them

    thank you very much

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  • neildavis
    replied
    Originally posted by Audio4me View Post
    thank you very, but on the site i don't find nothing about PSD seems to be hidden to visitors.
    why this ?
    PSD was never a high priority for me. My interest has always been for active speakers, and I do reference Active Speaker Designer (ASD) on Audiodevelopers.com. There was supposed to be an article dedicated to ASD, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

    Most of the work on PSD was initially developed for ASD, although I was careful to make sure the code modules such as the Box Modeler, Baffle Modeler and Drivers would work with either active or passive designs. The module that is unique to PSD is the Passive Crossover Module. and that one was done during a 4-day period when I was hospitalized with DVT/PE, and I just wanted a challenge. But I've never actually used the program myself for designing a speaker with a passive crossover, so it's not high on my "need to work on" list.

    All of the ASD and PSD code needs to be re-engineered to use the newer development tools. The overall architecture of the programs are still OK, but the Windows Form tools are a limitation. And if I ever return to ASD, it will be to experiment with depicting audio response in a 3D environment, using virtual reality development tools. It would also allow using "external" tools like SketchUp to draw the boxes and baffles as entities within that 3D space. But that's still a ways down the road, and it might never happen...

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  • Audio4me
    replied
    thank you very, but on the site i don't find nothing about PSD seems to be hidden to visitors.
    why this ?

    Leave a comment:


  • neildavis
    replied
    Originally posted by Audio4me View Post
    thank you for your answer.
    where could i download the complete or lite versions of modified setup for PSD ?
    The link is in my signature here at PE: http://www.audiodevelopers.com/Softw...Lite/setup.exe. But you can't just use the setup file by itself, as there are a number of files in subdirectories required to load the program. But you might be able to put this zip file on a thumb drive and run setup after extracting the files: http://www.audiodevelopers.com/Softw..._Lite_1057.zip

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  • Audio4me
    replied
    thank you for your answer.
    where could i download the complete or lite versions of modified setup for PSD ?

    Leave a comment:


  • neildavis
    replied
    Try it again

    The code for PSD-Lite uses modules that are shared with the "full" and active speaker versions of the program. I started to make a lot changes to the "Configuration" modules that specifies whether the design is 2-way, 3-way, 4-way, etc, as I needed to make changes for the active version. However, I didn't finish all of the changes and I didn't test for backward compatibility with PSD-Lite. So the Configuration selection might be "broken". That's just the way it is, until there is more interest in this code getting revived.

    I removed the checking for an online code for PSD-Lite, so it should work off-line now.

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  • Audio4me
    replied
    is there a version that not requiring internet connection, i need to use it in a stand-alone pc without internet connection

    Leave a comment:


  • neildavis
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    Originally posted by USAWester View Post
    I have played with this PSD-Lite (final beta v1.0.4.0) from yesterday. Here is the feedback I have so far.
    Thanks for the feedback

    1) "Load Design" can not open "Sample 3-Way Project.csp" from "Passive Crossover Designer 6.0 User Guide and Tutorial" package;
    This isn't a problem. Those "CSP" files are not PSD-Lite design files--they are unique to PCD. PSD-Lite design files are xml files that serialize a much larger design object. You can open the CSP files from the Crossover Module and it will populate the PSD-Lite design object. Then you can save that data back to the PSD-Lite design file.

    2) While I can config driver quantity in "Woofer Box Designer", I cannot find anything to do the same in "Design Baffle". Since I am trying a WMTMW configuration, so this "Design Baffle" is not what can be used;.
    This is a program limitation that may get addressed in a future revision. The Design Baffle module right now is limited to only 3 drivers. I've got a need for a line array version of the program where I will need to address this limitation, but it may be a while before I get to that.

    3) Since I am not sure WMTMW configuration being implementated into " Design Crossover" window, so the calculation of the network is meaningless for me.
    Therefore, my question is, Would you please pass the driver configuration data all over your sub-windows? (i.e., if you change the driver confuguration in "Woofer Box Designer" window, why you are not passing that information to other windows?).
    The driver configuration is available to all of the modules, because the object model is a "global" variable that is instantiated in the main routine. However, not all of the modules use the data consistently, and this is something that needs to be addressed in a later iteration of the software. For example, the wiring information for the two woofers in your WMTMW is not used by the Crossover module, so the crossover calculation will not be correct for your design if you use the measurement data for a single driver. However, if you measure the drivers in the cabinet using your series or parallel connections, the crossover calculation will be correct.

    Thank you for providing the free software for me to play.
    You're welcome, and thanks for pointing out areas where the software needs to evolve. There are a lot of new features and extensions to old ones that I would like to address, but I will probably need some help before working on another major upgrade to PSD-Lite. My primarily interest has always been for the active version of this program (Active Speaker Designer), and that's going to receive attention before PSD-Lite.

    Leave a comment:


  • USAWester
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    I have played with this PSD-Lite (final beta v1.0.4.0) from yesterday. Here is the feedback I have so far
    1) "Load Design" can not open "Sample 3-Way Project.csp" from "Passive Crossover Designer 6.0 User Guide and Tutorial" package;
    2) While I can config driver quantity in "Woofer Box Designer", I cannot find anything to do the same in "Design Baffle". Since I am trying a WMTMW configuration, so this "Design Baffle" is not what can be used;
    3) Since I am not sure WMTMW configuration being implementated into " Design Crossover" window, so the calculation of the network is meaningless for me.
    Therefore, my question is, Would you please pass the driver configuration data all over your sub-windows? (i.e., if you change the driver confuguration in "Woofer Box Designer" window, why you are not passing that information to other windows?)
    Thank you for providing the free software for me to play.

    Leave a comment:


  • neildavis
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    Thanks. This is the type of feedback I need.

    Originally posted by SirNickity View Post

    Driver Manager
    I like the driver manager. The phase graph for the ND105 looks wrong though. There's a sudden spike at ~200Hz, then it drops to 0deg for the rest of the graph. That's incorrect based on REW's graph (where the file came from.)
    The FRD/ZMA parser is very robust and so far I've never seen it have problems importing a file. I'd have to look at the file--please send it so I can find out why it didn't import properly.

    I would like to see an option here for specifying the number of woofers, and how they're wired...Maybe that's not a feature of this version...?
    That's true. You can specify the number of woofers and how they are wired in the Box Modeler module, but that information is not passed to the other modules. The reason I didn't implement this yet is that this program started out as an active speaker designer, and for active systems you don't care about the driver impedances. But it makes a difference for systems with passive crossovers. It's on the to-do list.

    It would be nice to have an offset adjustment for FRDs taken at different SPLs, although I realize that can be fixed in the FRD file before importing it, so it's not vital. In fact, that might be the better way...
    That's coming. Open the Response Editor on the Tools menu and you will see the slider for the level. No code yet, but it's in the queue.

    Crossover Designer
    I have to go full-screen on this because it does not fit on my laptop otherwise.
    I started to address that, but didn't get to it in time. There is an "Options" menu item that was going to allow "hiding" the top part of the window (with the Targets and Crossover Topology). That will make the window a lot smaller. I looked at the Crossover window on our 1280x800 laptop and thought it was OK for now, but I'll fix that eventually.

    Editing the parts in-line on the schematic viewer is cool, but it takes a lot of space to do, so maybe just small-font labels with the parts values would work better.
    The larger program that this is derived from (PSD) prints the PE part number underneath the textboxes. I agree that this version, which doesn't have part numbers, could be made more "elegant" by removing the box borders and maybe using smaller fonts. But that's extra work I didn't feel like doing for the Lite version in this release. Maybe later...

    Also, schematic drawing code is scalable, and I can change the size of the schematic by changing one number. For example, the midrange schematic is about 12% smaller than the woofer and tweeter. So if I needed to I could resize the schematics, especially for the Lite version that doesn't use part numbers.

    Entering fractional values (0.56, for e.g.) is especially painful.
    Yep. I need to validate to keep the calculations happy, but the error-checking could be improved. I tried a different approach where the backgound changes to a different color until a valid entry was in the field, and it didn't enter the value to be calculated until it was valid. It's a little more code, but a worthwhile upgrade.

    Speaking of resistance, it wasn't immediately clear to me what the box next to the inductor value was supposed to be. It just said "0" and had no tooltip. I guessed it was DCR, and when I finally got a valid number entered, it turned into a resistor, confirming my suspicion.
    I need quite a few more tooltips, but certainly one here. The resistors by the caps and inductors can actually be anything you want (same as PCD). In the full PSD version the DCR is entered when you select the part from the database, but you can over-ride the value--it is not hard-coded to be the DCR. Also, if you click the NPE box it calculates the ESR for that frequency from the DF and enters it for you in the resistor box by the capacitor.

    Also, it's probably safe to assume inductors are mH, capacitors uF, and resistors ohms, but it wouldn't hurt to have that indicated somewhere next to the field.
    There are actually textboxes that specify the units, but I made them "hidden" in this version of the code until I thought of a more elegant way to display that information.

    If your calculation algorithm supports arbitrary stages, I would looooove to see dynamic nodes...
    If I were trying to make the best passive crossover design tool, I would do what you suggest. However, these tools started out as a suite for designing active speakers, and the passive version was originally intended as a front-end for a shopping tool that creates a basket from the bill of materials. With the way I generate the schematics now, I could probably implement dynamic nodes easily enough, but its something that would be a future revision that isn't currently scheduled.

    After entering all my data per the spreadsheet version, my results don't look the same. This could be because of the single/parallel issue mentioned above, or an error in parsing the FRD file, I don't know.
    I haven't done extensive testing myself, but what I've tried resulted in the same results as PCD. And it should...it's just node equations.

    These sub-windows appear to communicate with each other, but it's not immediately obvious.
    Yep, that "Done" button implies more than it should. It should say "Close".

    The magic in designing an integrated suite of tools like this is the Object Model that is described in one of the Help menu items on the main window. Whenever any data is entered, it updates the instance of the object model, and whenever a window is opened it loads itself from the instance. This object model defines the system state. When you save the project, it serializes the object, and you can look at the program state with an XML editor. So you can close windows and reopen them whenever you like--they are a "viewport" into the state and provide a GUI for changing the state.

    The inter-module communication is handled by an interface array object and by using Delegates to invoke calculations between windows. Believe it or not, there is actually an Enterprise Architect (EA) model that depicts the modules and shows the communications between them. The model is a bit out of date, and it is only filled in for the top-level, but it's got a lot of information on how this suite of tools is organized and they communicate. In fact, the graphic for the object model is from the EA model.

    The arrows all over the main window would suggest a workflow, so that's what I assume happens, but you see, it's still a guess.
    The "Lite" version doesn't have all of the workflow status indicators and an explanation of the workflow, so yes, the arrows come off as a bit mysterious. The workflow is addressed in the Help file for the PSD program (not the "Lite" version)--I probably need to add some of that info to this version.

    That's it for now. Hope some of this is constructive and not just nit-picking. :-)
    No, it definitely helps. This program uses a user interface that is a significant departure from the earlier Excel-based programs, and it is going to take a number of iterations to make it more intuitive and more useful. All comments are welcome.

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  • SirNickity
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    Some quick first impressions with my MTM ND105-8 / ND20FA-6 project...

    Driver Manager
    I like the driver manager. The phase graph for the ND105 looks wrong though. There's a sudden spike at ~200Hz, then it drops to 0deg for the rest of the graph. That's incorrect based on REW's graph (where the file came from.)

    I would like to see an option here for specifying the number of woofers, and how they're wired. I don't see a place to do that in the crossover designer either, so I can only assume it's trying to model a single woofer, and the simulation is going to be very wrong. Maybe that's not a feature of this version...?

    It would be nice to have an offset adjustment for FRDs taken at different SPLs, although I realize that can be fixed in the FRD file before importing it, so it's not vital. In fact, that might be the better way...

    Crossover Designer
    I have to go full-screen on this because it does not fit on my laptop otherwise. 1920x1080 is not quite ubiquitous yet! :-) Designing a complex editor like this is inherently difficult because of the amount of information you need to see and edit, so I'm not sure if there's an easy fix. Maybe a 2-column approach like the Excel sheet, where you get a large thumbnail view of both the schematic and graph on one side, and all the editable stuff on the other. Maybe with blocks (crossover, series filter(s), parallel filter(s)) that can be collapsed. You could even make the graph clickable to expand (like the image viewer in PE's forum posts) for high-res detail. This would work well on widescreen displays (almost a given now), and still tolerable on 5:4.

    Editing the parts in-line on the schematic viewer is cool, but it takes a lot of space to do, so maybe just small-font labels with the parts values would work better. Value entry could be, like I said, in fields in another column, or you could generate an in-place editor when you click on a part. Whatever you do, it would be nice if the text entry was a little more forgiving. Entering fractional values (0.56, for e.g.) is especially painful. The box tends to drop the dot and turn it into "56" until I go back and edit it again. In fact, they don't work like common controls at all. Backspace the entire value and it'll abort your edit and select all the text, virtually guaranteeing a mistake. I understand this is validation logic to keep from trying to calculate invalid entries, but you may want to attempt to parse the value, and only trigger a recalc if the value is good. If not, just do nothing and give the user a chance to finish editing. You can use OnBlur-style events to validate the value for realsies, and trigger a warning of some sort if someone is trying to enter a resistance of "purple" ohms, or whatever.

    Speaking of resistance, it wasn't immediately clear to me what the box next to the inductor value was supposed to be. It just said "0" and had no tooltip. I guessed it was DCR, and when I finally got a valid number entered, it turned into a resistor, confirming my suspicion. Also, it's probably safe to assume inductors are mH, capacitors uF, and resistors ohms, but it wouldn't hurt to have that indicated somewhere next to the field.

    I have a complex LF XO section on my build: LP, Notch, Contour, Zobel. I have to leave out the contour filter though, because I'm only able to enter one series element. If your calculation algorithm supports arbitrary stages, I would looooove to see dynamic nodes. Say, after the LP inductor, the wire has a [+] on it that you can click to add a filter. Pick between series and parallel, and it adds a node right there. Likewise, somewhere in each node there could be a [-] or [X] that trashes that node. This gives you the chance to try filters in different combinations, and doesn't limit the number or order of filters to some preconceived design.

    After entering all my data per the spreadsheet version, my results don't look the same. This could be because of the single/parallel issue mentioned above, or an error in parsing the FRD file, I don't know. As of right now, I'm not even sure I'm using the spreadsheet correctly, so either one could be correct, or possibly neither. There's a learning curve to all these tools that I haven't completely climbed yet. IMO, much of that could be mitigated with a better and more intuitive interface, but hey, we're getting there as we speak! :-)

    On that note, one last suggestion... These sub-windows appear to communicate with each other, but it's not immediately obvious. For e.g., the driver editor has a "Done" button. OK, not exactly the standard Windows UI model, but you know what to expect if you click it, so that'll do. However, none of the other dialogs I've seen have that. If I close the window, are my changes saved? Do they impact the other editors, or are they all independent? The arrows all over the main window would suggest a workflow, so that's what I assume happens, but you see, it's still a guess. Once you know, you know.. but that goes back to an unnecessary learning curve that could be avoided.

    That's it for now. Hope some of this is constructive and not just nit-picking. :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • neildavis
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    There is a new version posted, although I haven't had a chance to play with it yet myself. When I added the "Box Model" module I had forgotten that I had made a special "Select Drivers" module for PSD_Lite. This different version had the T-S parameter entry boxes removed because the previous Beta version didn't need that information. Big Duh!--no way to enter T-S parameters for the woofer or midrange.

    So that's fixed and the data entry for the splice frequency is fixed.

    I'm curious whether anyone finds the box model for the midrange useful. You can specify your midrange box and it will calculate the effect of the enclosure on the response. Usually the midrange box is big enough that the enclosure size doesn't matter, but I thought there might be some designs where the midrange box size really does matter. Plus, if I add in the Baffle module you can make the box "open", and the code will calculate the modeled dipole response. Plus, the lower midrange box size would almost certainly be important in a 4-way version of this code ;)

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  • nod
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    Originally posted by neildavis View Post

    If you need a copy of the Beta 2 without the file check, I'll send you a link.
    Would you please? The system I intend to use it on isn't on the 'net.
    Much thanks for the software, sincerely appreciated!

    Leave a comment:


  • bolland83
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    I suspect it is an issue with my resolution then, normally with a display this size the resolution is set much higher. I have it set lower so I can actually use it from 8 feet away, so that might be why it's shrinking the graph on me. Even with the window at full screen the graph is to short to read. I'll load it up on the laptop and see if that works better, if it does then my suspicions are correct. Now I'm wondering if my resolution settings may have something to do with my issues with SPL trace too. So I guess it's just me, like I said, DINK :p

    Leave a comment:


  • neildavis
    replied
    Re: PSD-Lite Beta 2

    Originally posted by bolland83 View Post
    I like the UI, easy for a dink like me to use it. My only issue is the graphs seem like they are way too short, not sure if it's in issue with the program, or an issue with my monitor resolution though (40" LCD) Now if I could just get SPL copy or SPL trace to work I'd be in business.
    Just drag the window corner and make it bigger. There is code that recalculates the chart size to fit the window .

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