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  • InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

    Here goes...
    First I want to thank all of the sponsors, the attendees, the help from the local guys, and the people at the Hyatt that make this possible on an annual basis. This was by far the most attendance I've had since I've been hosting it with 52 total faces there, and 33 on-line streaming the music as it happened. About 40 pair presented. Without all of you, this would not work as smoothly as it does. Also thank you to the anonymous benefactor that puts forth for the room every year- it is much appreciated! Sorry this first photo is a bit dark...





    With Matt's pair of Macrotech 5000VZ's on hand running parallel-mono for everything but the BB compy, and the Comtech 400 running the BB, we had plenty of power on tap to make some noise. Rory brought the Marantz CD player and the ML No. 38 as usual for the front end, and Matt had a Mackie Big-Knob and Marantz Pro for the BB rig. This is some great gear!




    If I start around the exterior entry as always and go clockwise...
    Paul K's "RS Duet" (MarkK xover/RS225/RS28F) were just to the left of there, next to some door prizes and things for sale. These were the most immune to the room as Paul is typically able to achieve.


    Next is the main door-prize table, Thank you again, Sponsors!


    Source gear already mentioned along with the music brought and the 3 TL-Labs samples that TL sent for drooling over:


    Along the front wall, most of the floor-units were placed, along with a table of some bookshelves.


    The black tower above was placed into the corner against the wall behind the amp rack, and is Scott Sehlin's "Matrix" (Neo3/Neo8/RS150Tx2).
    DanN brought his "Chameleons" (TBW4-1658/OT19-waveguided) with adjustable slot port beneath. I had my Vijon there (Dynavox LW5004/HiVi RT1.3), and the Mark Audio Alpair10/CSS LD25X sitting there was the top of Chuck's Intrepid 3-way design (right, and left below):


    ...and apparently bkeane's JB-"Tritons" were also there at some point in the day.


    Here you see: Matrix, DavePellegrene's dipole Ultimax 12" sub and OB B&C/AC-AST dual-waveguided sats a couple sets down, Pschoacoustics' "Slant6" (Vifa M18/HDS), 1100xxben's CurtC- "Stentorians", DanN's "Obsidian" FAST (RS225/Vifa TC7), bkeane's "Trym-MLTL", and mattsk8's "Dennis MurphyER18-Ribbon" and "CurtC-Statements". This is almost all of the Floor-units we had this year.


    Right wall had a couple tables as usual for bookshelf designs...
    Rory's "Neutrino" (W4-1720/Seas 22TAFG), Tyler's JR-"Emoticons" (Infinity buyout 4"/BC25), 1100xxben's "Tritrix" surround speakers, and my "Stances" (RS125-4/RT003C).



    Paul Carmody brought his "Speedster TMM" and a little 2.1 build based on the Lepai 2.1 amp.


    moosespeaker's "Stormy/Kenny 2.1" (w4-1337/OX20/ND91) made another appearance and was operational this time, and Kenny didn't give up the ghost. (Tritons again) Jeff B's "Sopranos" SB-Acoustics 2-way, dstmbgh's Paul C-"Hitmakers" (DA175/BC25) in bold blue, JB's "Kairos" Satori 2-way, and Scott's "Hafnium" (OT19/TC9/W5-1138SIF).



    Also in this group were CraigK's PaulC-"Untitled" (15W Rev/Hiq OW3), Scott's "Lithium" (ND105/BC25), and bkeane's "Oversights" (DC160/TG9/ND16) (not in order).


    On to the back of the room and the Black-Box competition after lunch on Saturday...






    We had 11 pair in the Black Box, and a Congrats! should be thrown to Dave Pellegrene for his #8 taking best subjective sound quality overall. Well done, Dave! It sounds as though one of Scott's entries, my entry, and DanP's entry were within the top 4, but DanP #7 took second in terms of voting, and #5 was third.
    Voting tally:
    #-votes
    1-2
    2-1
    3-1
    4-0
    5-4
    6-3
    7-5
    8-8
    10-0
    11-0

    A lot of people had fun with this, doing things they wouldn't normally have done in the design process, and it was a learning experience for most in terms of listening, picking out your project if you could, and whether sight made a difference or not. It was really fun!
    So there you have it!
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

  • #2
    Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

    Some impressions....
    Rory got the most sound in the smallest space, and what good bass that was!
    Paul K's were the most immune to the room, and sounded really good.
    I think the Intrepids were best of show- nicely done Chuck.
    DanN's FAST was an interesting departure from his norm, and I liked these alot.

    We made a lot of smaller woofers go wubba-wubba Friday night, and that was fun!
    You can use SOME 4 ohm drivers in parallel with success.
    Shoebox subwoofers can make bass.
    Lepai can work well.
    Molested W4-1337's don't sound as good as untouched W4's.
    Satori and Revelators are STILL nice drivers.
    43# 12" drivers make people grunt.
    Everyone likes door prizes!
    Black-Box is FUN!

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

      Hey..... You said number 6 was third on the video. Doh! I was supposed to buy you dinner before the voting. I guess I will take third and be happy to get it considering what I was up against. I paid 7 bucks each for the woofers and 10 each for the tweeters, first order cross over with ebay caps and surplus store inductors and resistors. I had less than 75 bucks in drivers AND crossovers if you went by what I really paid. The added bonus was my wife trying to figure out what the posted note with 5 on it meant after I stuck it on the fridge. I christen my entry The Love Box.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

        Ben thanks for taking the time to post this after all the work to organize it. Its really nice to be able to put labels to all the speakers
        Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
        Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

          Awesome builds, and pics. Looks like it was a lot of fun.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

            I took the info right off of the voting tally postit when I posted this up, so I must've misspoke on the video and at the event.
            Later,
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

              Ben, thanks for the compliments on the RS duets. I'm always pleased when my builds sound the same at various events as they do at home. Bryan's Trymms and Matt's (I think) ER18s are essentially identical to the duets because all three are "simple" ML-TLs. Did those other two designs sound equally room-immune to you? Then there were Mark's Slant 6s and Dan's Obisidians, both of which are also ML-TLs but their lines are longer and folded. Did those sound room-immune, too? While I have zero "proof" I can offer, I do believe TLs in general tend to be less bothered by room effects, but part of the reason for mine to be that way may be because I direct the people whom design their crossovers for me to limit BSC to 3 dB or a bit more? I'm interested in others' thoughts on this. And, don't forget that I spaced my duets about two feet closer together than where the taped-off spots were located and that may also have had an effect. I did that simply because I felt the assigned spacing was too large.
              Paul

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                Thanks Ben,

                It's great to put faces to the names and friends I've made here.

                I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                Tangband W6-sub

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                  Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                  Ben, thanks for the compliments on the RS duets. I'm always pleased when my builds sound the same at various events as they do at home. Bryan's Trymms and Matt's (I think) ER18s are essentially identical to the duets because all three are "simple" ML-TLs. Did those other two designs sound equally room-immune to you? Then there were Mark's Slant 6s and Dan's Obisidians, both of which are also ML-TLs but their lines are longer and folded. Did those sound room-immune, too? While I have zero "proof" I can offer, I do believe TLs in general tend to be less bothered by room effects, but part of the reason for mine to be that way may be because I direct the people whom design their crossovers for me to limit BSC to 3 dB or a bit more? I'm interested in others' thoughts on this. And, don't forget that I spaced my duets about two feet closer together than where the taped-off spots were located and that may also have had an effect. I did that simply because I felt the assigned spacing was too large.
                  Paul

                  It wasn't the TL part the room was messing up. It was squarely in the midrange. When you walked up to within about 5 feet from the speaker the midrange fleshed out and the tonal balance was great. The big beam on the ceiling that the design was firing up at sucked out the midrange for most of the seated listening positions. It was a shame because in right room these could possibly have sounded wonderful.

                  Paul I think bass balance is about right. I wonder if the port being much closer to the floor than the woofer is part of this balance. Even with low crossover three ways I don't like woofers close to floor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                    Actually you might be missing what Wolf was talking about. In many (most) of these events, there are problems with many of the speakers sounding boomy. That's what I believe his comment was addressing and, which, I almost never have a problem in my builds. As to a woofer's location, the closer it gets to the floor the more there will be bass reinforcement from coupling to the floor which can alter how much (or how little) BSC is necessary. In my two previous builds I purposely located the woofer low on the baffle hoping to eliminate all BSC and, therefore, maximize sensitivity. You know what? It worked. But it worked so well that it (bass) was too much of a good thing, at least in my house. I won't do that again! I don't know that locating the port close to the floor and the woofer higher up is doing anything constructive, to be honest.
                    Paul

                    Originally posted by fdieck View Post
                    It wasn't the TL part the room was messing up. It was squarely in the midrange. When you walked up to within about 5 feet from the speaker the midrange fleshed out and the tonal balance was great. The big beam on the ceiling that the design was firing up at sucked out the midrange for most of the seated listening positions. It was a shame because in right room these could possibly have sounded wonderful.

                    Paul I think bass balance is about right. I wonder if the port being much closer to the floor than the woofer is part of this balance. Even with low crossover three ways I don't like woofers close to floor.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                      Originally posted by fdieck View Post
                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]35955[/ATTACH]Hey..... You said number 6 was third on the video. Doh! I was supposed to buy you dinner before the voting. I guess I will take third and be happy to get it considering what I was up against. I paid 7 bucks each for the woofers and 10 each for the tweeters, first order cross over with ebay caps and surplus store inductors and resistors. I had less than 75 bucks in drivers AND crossovers if you went by what I really paid. The added bonus was my wife trying to figure out what the posted note with 5 on it meant after I stuck it on the fridge. I christen my entry The Love Box.
                      As the designer of number 6, I am confident that the announcement was accurate while the tally sheet was in error. :D

                      Actually, my final four was 3,5,6,7. I wound up voting for 7 (Dan P's entry). That just served to reinforce a long-held belief that the RS-150 is still one of the best values around. I was relieved that I at least liked both of my entries (3 and 6).
                      Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.

                      Sehlin Sound Solutions

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                        I mistook your number 3 for my number 5 and have no recollection how I voted for my speaker. I think maybe I spent enough time listening to it during design that I tuned it out during the competition. Our tweeter and woofer choice were similar and I was surprised how close to the same approach we took. I have read the criticisms and agree my design was recessed in the highs which is no surprise for a coated paper cone tweeter. The thing I liked in my design were the mid bass to upper mid dynamics and the driver integration from the large overlap and similar cone materials.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                          I honestly do not think it was the spacing that made the difference. We've had them wider and closer to the front with more toe-in, closer and straighter, and I just think you have a knack for neutral room-boom. The ER18's sounded fine to me. The Trymms sounded a bit off in more than one way, so I'll chalk that up to the kit xover, likely a LEAP design. The Slant6's were fine if you were in front of the soffit, behind the midrange was swallowed. The Obsidians had a little more boom than yours, but they were also placed higher on the baffle too. Don't know if this is something or not.

                          Could be any number of reasons. It's not the Iowa auditorium after all...;-) I do think we should ry in front of the soffit next year, just to make sure.

                          Later,
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: InDIYana 2013 Virtual Walkaround...

                            Do you think some sort of curtain/trap along the back wall wouldhelp?
                            https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

                            Comment

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