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  • Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

    Due to the PC issues, I'm uploading this and posting from the wife's laptop. Sorry for the month delay in my writeup, and maybe the loss of coverage and discussion of the event as it was.

    We met at Pontecorvo's like last year, and were met with a lot fewer attendees than years prior. Thanks to the staff at PE for the support of this fantastic event, and the never ending support of this forum we all call our internet home. This year was a blast, and I can't wait until next year.

    I must also say that Jill filled in Amy's shoes almost identically, and it was surreal how similar they look. You done good, kid!

    Upon my entry Friday evening, I was getting registered and in unload mode. This van pulled up to the dock, sagging it seemed suspension wise, and 4-5 people proceeded to unload this mega-massive-calamity-creator entitled "Art of War". Friday was of course the Unlimited sector of the event, to which this thing boasted 20 amplifier channels running active with Sure 100x4 modules and a custom designed active xover.

    -The RSS315(model ext?) quintet all ran the LFE signal from 5 channels, sealed.
    -Center 3-way was for the center channel, comprised of Morel MDT40/Morel CAM558/RS180; as are all of the other channels; custom ground or cut to fit the layout as necessary.
    -Left and second from left 3-ways were sent summed signal from the LF and LR of 5.1, as you can't get surround effect from one box.
    -RF and RR channels mirror as the Left channels.

    This southern Georgia fellow then talked for about 45 minutes or so explaining amidst classic hilarity how and why this thing came to be. He had a stack of notes to explain, and it was all a well thought out contraption. I wish it could have been displayed full-bore, as the guys had been up for 48 hours and weren't even sure it would operate. It only was able to play the left channel, and would have been 2.1 at full for this demo if running correctly. I was impressed with the sound as it was very cohesive and nicely blended. It weighed in at about 300 pounds.

    The quarter-spherical "CBT" wavelaunch off the glass was ingenious, and did work rather well. Well done sir!




    First on the table as you enter the room from the rear, was a nice arrangement of new-horizons from PE. A new lo-pro thin woofer like the former NS series, now with an S surround and a ferrite motor; an RS180P (yes- a paper version of the venerable RS180 is finally coming to market); an Ultimax 10; and one of the Dayton pro midbasses released not too long ago.



    After the bend on the corner are my 2 entries, the "Schwarz XL" which was my Black-Box entry from InDIYana the previous Spring, and my "Francium MT" that is a prequel to the full 3-way Francium they will be integrated into. Respectively, these used Goldwood Delmar 6.5-8 ohm/modded Airborne 28mm dome tweeter, and a Focal 5K416J/Visaton MHT12; and came in 2nd in <$200 and 3rd in >$200. I will refrain from my impressions, but they seemed to be well received.



    The next entry was Josh Hollander's "BlackBox" entry that didn't make it in the Spring. "INDY-NG" I think he called it. Fountek FE85/ND90 in a push-pull arrangement. I really liked the aesthetics of the slid-open baffle, but I felt they needed a tweeter. I may have been too far off-axis to know for certain.



    Norman Cerveny brought the next little project consisting of a Phase Technology 7" and an XT25TG30. Simple 3M carbon-fiber paper and integration that wasn't bad at all. Look out builders, Norm's getting better at this...



    The next project was an RS125/BC25 combo. I don't recall who built these, nor how they sounded.



    Eric Levenchuck's "Retropassives V2" really sounded great on little power, and was one of the most sensitive projects there. I still really like these, and the veneer looks better than the green. ;-) Sammiesound and Dayton Phenolic tweeter comprise the elements. He did place ___ in ____.



    The next pair I don't recall the rookie builder, but they comprised a carbon-paper Aurum Cantus 7" midbass and one of their larger ribbon offerings. They were rather polite in the bass, and integration wasn't that great either. I was left wanting in terms of the driver cost vs. results.



    The Nano-Neo made an appearance this year, and sound as fun as they have before. I don't recall the PETT member's name here, but he is around.
    This was his first build, and was a good place to start. Nice.



    The next project also a rookie at the event. I must say they surprised me, and I bet the application made them shine. The Silkie was rolled off very gradually, and the B4N was treated as it should have been to keep it from grating eardrums. At the PC, I bet these shine as intended, especially when used with a sub.
    Sorry I don't recall your name.



    Peepaj (Jeff) brought the 830656/XT25TG30 from Iron Driver the year before. Very smooth and easy in the xover, but I couldn't tell whether it was room or tuning emphasis in one spot in the bass. Very benign and listenable, well done!



    The first pair of towers around the room belonged to a sophomore visit from ____ who brought the "3-Way Stops" 2 years prior. Comprising the AC200MKII, Morel CAM558, and the Dayton PT2-C, I felt the integration and position of the drivers could have been improved upon. Cabinets were very nicely built, and the drivers I felt required a bit more finesse to get the most out of them. Not awful in the least, but still needing work.



    Bogdan Petrescu brought another project this year, with an SB18 and Fountek ribbon. I felt these were overly neutral and uninvolving. They just lacked realism to me. He also placed.



    Dan brought his "Obsidians" again since they went to InDIYana, and they won the <$200 class. That little TC7 sounds great! I do feel in that room the bass was a bit muddy though.



    Meredith brought his massive cardboard concoction that assembled into a bio-degradable bass, mid, and tweeter horn. I really like when Meredith brings something, as it always has his stamp on it. Different, purpose-driven, and well thought out. A concrete bucket bass driver atop the tower, midrange in garden flower pots, and a petalled tweeter horn made this an interesting project. I think he had a mid out on the right, but otherwise it was nice in the sweet-spot, and rolled off outside of that. Very cool.



    to be continued...
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

  • #2
    Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

    DB Keele brought the CBT arrays again, in combo with the dual RSS315HF opposed-sub PE sells. Great sound and impact just as before, and the fireworks piece is really cool!



    jhollander brought an open-backed NS6 based design, and I felt it sounded a bit dark and the bass was not really well defined. Still at this pricepoint, they sounded quite good.



    Tony Hartman brought the next 3 pair along the right wall. One of his-style "bookshelves", and 3 towers. This guy is really getting better at this, as the price per pair went up, the better they sounded. His aesthetics are improving as well, but are bit 'aged' in look. Call 'em nu-vintage if you will.





    Here's Norman's 2.1 active arrangement with an RS180, a trunky RS28 in an interesting 'waveguide', and his first try at a xover on his own. I think he got 3rd place in the Unlimited cat. Nice job, and I liked them.



    Doc Griffin brought his open-backs from last year, with a huge markup on the xover used being a Deqx, and his Triton MLTL's. I felt the open-backs were a bit shallow in soundstage, but the MLTL was pretty nice. He did place with _____ in ______.




    Paul K brought is Amaroso(?) which looks just like the last 4 pair he built ;-), and he took home a ____ place in ____. Not my aesthetic cup of tea necessarily, but they were well made and sounded good with that slot-MLTL thingy on the Neo8. Add a Hiquphon (Hickuhfahn) and an RS225, and you get bliss.



    Adam and Eric are a powerful duo in this hobby, and they always surprise the eyes and the ears. I liked both of them, even if the tweeters were a touch hot.
    The handcut dovetails and the raalifoamed large Heil (high-uhl) really made them a visual standout, as well as Eric's upholstery and steel work on the RSR's.




    Sorry if I've forgotten any, as I think that was all of them. Sorry about the name and placement blanks, but I'm sure those will be filled in by those that attended.

    My 2c,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

      nice write up as usual Wolf.
      Thanks.
      " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

      Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
      Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

      http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
      http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

        Thanks for the walk around.

        Some note fillers for your review:
        1. Bogdan's entry finished first in the over $200 class.
        2. My open back MTM with h-frames finished second in the open unlimited. The Triton MTM MLTLs finished second in the over $200 class.
        3. Paul K's speakers won the Dayton class while Eric's RSRs were second in that class.
        4. Adam's open back design with the ripoles and Heil tweets won first in the open unlimited class.

        Jim

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

          Thanks, Jim!
          Wolf
          Last edited by Wolf; 08-13-2013, 04:29 AM.
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

            Ben, I was getting withdrawal symptoms waiting on your walk-around review! So my speakers' aesthetics aren't appealing to you, and you're comparing them to glow-in-the-dark green cabinets!? :rolleyes::D

            Just for you, then, I'll see if I can come up with a look and finish that's more exciting and appealing next time.

            Paul

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

              You know that was mostly a jab, Paul. They look nice, but they all look basically the same to me. It would be like having the same drivers in every design but changing the paint or veneer. Or even listening to music with monotonic sound. Or even watching TV but there is only one show on.

              Oh, BTW, those Stances are yellow, not green...;-)

              I'd also really like you to take on a xover yourself, as that seems to be your weak point.

              Later,
              Wolf
              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

              *InDIYana event website*

              Photobucket pages:
              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                Yep, I knew you were mostly jabbing me and I had to jab you back. I didn't remember which of your speakers were painted that way, and I wasn't sure whether they were green, yellow or yellow/green.

                As to me designing crossovers, part of being successful at whatever you do in life, be it your job or your hobby, is to not only know your strengths but to know your weaknesses, then use and build on those strengths while minimizing the effects of your weaknesses. So, I do what I feel comfortable doing, which is designing and building the cabinet while using different driver complements each time. Fortunately there's more than one way to achieve good results in this hobby due to all the help and sharing from others.
                Paul

                Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                You know that was mostly a jab, Paul. They look nice, but they all look basically the same to me. It would be like having the same drivers in every design but changing the paint or veneer. Or even listening to music with monotonic sound. Or even watching TV but there is only one show on.

                Oh, BTW, those Stances are yellow, not green...;-)

                I'd also really like you to take on a xover yourself, as that seems to be your weak point.

                Later,
                Wolf

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                  Duo, huh... :-)
                  I know mine were a bit hot up top so once I got home I had a chance to get the proper padding on the tweeters. Now that I've actually got to sit back and enjoy them I really like this set-up a lot. I'll have them at the Ky gathering in top form so be prepared to be aurally stunned, Ben!
                  Props to all the others, again, for all the cool entries this year!
                  A mains
                  The Ventures
                  Open Invit8tions
                  RSR
                  Sound Troopers
                  Acorns
                  442
                  DGBG's
                  The Monuments

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                    You know that was mostly a jab, Paul. They look nice, but they all look basically the same to me. It would be like having the same drivers in every design but changing the paint or veneer. Or even listening to music with monotonic sound. Or even watching TV but there is only one show on.

                    Oh, BTW, those Stances are yellow, not green...;-)

                    I'd also really like you to take on a xover yourself, as that seems to be your weak point.

                    Later,
                    Wolf
                    The post about his speaker looking familiar might have been "mostly a jab", but this post is a sucker punch. I'm disappointed.
                    Craig

                    The lowest possible F3 box alignment is not always the best alignment.

                    Designing and building speaker projects are like playing with adult Lego Blocks for me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                      Hi Wolf: You did a great job with the photography,nice closeups and good angles (cell phone or camera?).

                      Is it just me or do you find those CBT arrays visually disturbing :eek:


                      Regards
                      Bob C.
                      NLA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                        Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                        As to me designing crossovers, part of being successful at whatever you do in life, be it your job or your hobby, is to not only know your strengths but to know your weaknesses, then use and build on those strengths while minimizing the effects of your weaknesses. So, I do what I feel comfortable doing, which is designing and building the cabinet while using different driver complements each time. Fortunately there's more than one way to achieve good results in this hobby due to all the help and sharing from others.
                        Paul
                        Dang, if there's one thing that annoys me it's agreeing with Ben, but Paul I have to agree with him on the crossover thought. Knowing your high standards and meticulous nature it's hard to believe that you wouldn't master crossovers in no time flat.

                        Now it's off to do my penance: 'Bless me Father for I have sinned. I have agreed with the Lime Green King of Indiana.'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                          I wasn't upset particularly with the part of Ben's comments you posted other than, possibly, the part equating my often-used cabinet motif, in one form or another, to using the same drivers in design after design but just changing the paint or veneer. I don't always agree with Ben's opinions on how speakers sound in these events or his beliefs in how different components cause sound differences, but he's entitled to his opinions and beliefs.
                          Paul

                          Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
                          The post about his speaker looking familiar might have been "mostly a jab", but this post is a sucker punch. I'm disappointed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                            For what it's worth I like how your speakers "look". Top notch in every way. Ben is entitled to his opinion as much as any of us. But that wasn't the point of my post. I feel it was rather pompous and uncalled for to critize you for not doing the crossover work. As if you are less of a designer than him. Maybe it's something you just don't enjoy. So focus on what you do enjoy. I personally detest the final finishing step. The only reason I do it is because I could never afford to pay someone to do it for me anywhere close to the level you can (not that I can match your work either).
                            Craig

                            The lowest possible F3 box alignment is not always the best alignment.

                            Designing and building speaker projects are like playing with adult Lego Blocks for me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Belated: MWAF 2013 Virtual Walkaround....

                              speaking of disturbing design, the CBT was very disappointing to me. I will give it all the credit in the world for a large, stable sound stage, maybe the best walk around and no change in sound that I have heard. the rest of the sound was just not there. the highs were very laid back, no sparkle at the top end at all. also on the opposite end of the spectrum, there was no base at all with out the subs. if I was going to do a home theater system I might consider it, but that is the only "musical" venue I can see for this speaker. the only other comments is on the Bogdan's speaker. I agree 100% if you were sitting off axis. after the show I had a chance to sit where the judges were and they were really very good. a little of the head in the vice thing, but for dedicated listening I think they were very good, the judges got one almost right. I hope Bogdan does not care, but I was sitting with him at the event and we had both picked the 3 way stops as the best sounding speaker, and yes better than his. the midrange made the difference.
                              craigk

                              " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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