Dual Titanic Sub Build

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

Here is where my background may be helpful, my experience in adding weight on top of subs is this... you need to be careful, adding too much, deadens the sound, making it muffled or unmusical. My advice here would be to construct it as planned. Then experiment with 1/2 to 1 lb brass weights on top of cabinet for any additional coupling. (I use circles of vinyl damping material on top of my cabinets, then Mapleshade brass weights (triple points, down onto the forementioned damping material). Of course this may be obstructing the beauty of the final project, but if sound quality is foremost, take my advise.

This is assumming that it is needed. My experience is that it is usually not needed. What is most important is room acoustics and time spent setting up equipment for optimum sound. Nothing is more important than this.

[Adam_G]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

Here is where my background may be helpful, my experience in adding weight on top of subs is this... you need to be careful, adding too much, deadens the sound, making it muffled or unmusical.

^ I've had the exact opposite experience, and more weight has been merrier for my subwoofer. Now, mine is downward firing, which may make a bit of a difference. Just my .02

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

^ I've had the exact opposite experience, and more weight has been merrier for my subwoofer. Now, mine is downward firing, which may make a bit of a difference. Just my .02

[IronCamel]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

What is in that picture that you believe supports your assertion that too much weight on top of a sub makes it "muffled or unmusical"?

[Adam_G]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

What is in that picture that you believe supports your assertion that too much weight on top of a sub makes it "muffled or unmusical"?

I was wondering the same thing. It seems like his goal is to decouple his system from the floor? I can't quite tell what the goal is in having the subs off of the floor on 2x4s, but assuming it is to decouple I can see why not having weight on that setup would help. Normally it seems you get better response with a sub when it is coupled to the floor. I know my Titanic Mk3 15" makes my whole coffee table sub walk across the floor when I don't have weight on it, and when it gets moving it starts sounding really bad really fast.

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

I was wondering the same thing. It seems like his goal is to decouple his system from the floor? I can't quite tell what the goal is in having the subs off of the floor on 2x4s, but assuming it is to decouple I can see why not having weight on that setup would help. Normally it seems you get better response with a sub when it is coupled to the floor. I know my Titanic Mk3 15" makes my whole coffee table sub walk across the floor when I don't have weight on it, and when it gets moving it starts sounding really bad really fast.

If my goal is solely to make the whole house shake, yes, couple the subs to the floor. The best sound doesn't come from that scenario! (Maybe if you listen only to THX movies) My priority is two channel stereo.

The 2x4s are, for the moment, additional height, for the proper soundstage. ( I have, as one of my projects a more thought through base for these subs.) The positioning of your sub/s are crutial for proper soundstage/ realistic music reproduction!

(I think that there may be a lag in some of my responses /vs. your responses.)

[Adam_G]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

If my goal is solely to make the whole house shake, yes, couple the subs to the floor. The best sound doesn't come from that scenario! (Maybe if you listen only to THX movies) My priority is two channel stereo.

The 2x4s are, for the moment, additional height, for the proper soundstage. ( I have, as one of my projects a more thought through base for these subs.) The positioning of your sub/s are crutial for proper soundstage/ realistic music reproduction!

(I think that there may be a lag in some of my responses /vs. your responses.)

I feel it's safe to assume with the use of the Titanic Mk2s that it's for theater over music, but I understand your point completely. I run my sub as downfiring 90% of the time, but when I'm doing critical listening I put the table on its side, so that it's front firing, makes a significant difference in clarity for music vs rumble due to the coupling differences, but I still keep a weight on it because of the tenancy for it to talk around.

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

If my goal is solely to make the whole house shake, yes, couple the subs to the floor. The best sound doesn't come from that scenario! (Maybe if you listen only to THX movies) My priority is two channel stereo.

The 2x4s are, for the moment, additional height, for the proper soundstage. ( I have, as one of my projects a more thought through base for these subs.) The positioning of your sub/s are crutial for proper soundstage/ realistic music reproduction!

(I think that there may be a lag in some of my responses /vs. your responses.)

I can hear a substantial difference in soundstage depth/base response by moving my subs 1/4" in either direction. As a matter of fact, the height is the same. Proper placement, rather it be inward/outward from the walls or height is crutial for reproducing the event. Also, the choice of, in my case, forward firing, sidefiring..etc.....

The thing is.... TIME put into (your) unique set-up.

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

I've made several replies, but they haven't shown up here?

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

I feel it's safe to assume with the use of the Titanic Mk2s that it's for theater over music, but I understand your point completely. I run my sub as downfiring 90% of the time, but when I'm doing critical listening I put the table on its side, so that it's front firing, makes a significant difference in clarity for music vs rumble due to the coupling differences, but I still keep a weight on it because of the tenancy for it to talk around.

If you equipment is "walking around", that, on it's on, is not good. I appreciate that you seem to grasp what I'm saying.

[Wolf]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

Here is where my background may be helpful, my experience in adding weight on top of subs is this... you need to be careful, adding too much, deadens the sound, making it muffled or unmusical. My advice here would be to construct it as planned. Then experiment with 1/2 to 1 lb brass weights on top of cabinet for any additional coupling. (I use circles of vinyl damping material on top of my cabinets, then Mapleshade brass weights (triple points, down onto the forementioned damping material). Of course this may be obstructing the beauty of the final project, but if sound quality is foremost, take my advise.

The more dead or non-resonant the panels, the truer the bass response is without cabinet interaction. Been there, done that.
Later,
Wolf

[tomzarbo]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

Tomzarbo:

I am envious of your workspace. I have already ordered from the supplier you used for the quarter rounds for an upcoming project of my own. (Thanks for the link)

I'm a novice when it comes to the total projects I've done but I consider myself more accomplished on whole with regards to projects I've built and in terms of reading and experiencing reproduced sound.

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind? Do you have any preference in your choice of glue? With all of the choices out there, do you find a certain one best for this project? I've read (in other forums) that hide glue is the preferred choice when building a turn table plinth. I assume that may have more to do with resonance dissipation. Any comments?

Regarding internal cabinet volume, were the additional stiffening boards, and internal crossbrace members figured into this aspect?

I've mostly used Gorilla Glue for the critical joints. The extra panels for added heft are glued on with Titebond II. Gorilla glue helps make things air-tight if things aren't perfect on the cutting end. I caulked anyway just to be safe. As long as joints are touching, both glues will hold stronger than the base material, but like I said, the Gorilla glue expands to provide an airtight seal. Since the roundover parts are trickier to glue up than regular buttjoints, I thought I'd go with that for those seams.

As far as the braces go, I usually subtract what I think I'll end up needing for bracing from the internal volume when I work it up, and go by ear (or eye) when I get down to building. The sides are 1 1/4" thick which means they don't need much bracing, but the panels are large enough to require a few to break them up into smaller panels. I give it the "knuckle test" to make sure they're dead enough. I was using scrap material by the end of this project to brace it with. Time to go to HD to pick up some more MDF and PB. Since it's a sealed cabinet with a fair amount of volume inside, the actual volume of the cabinet isn't too super-critical. When I modeled it, adding or subtracting 1/2 a cu. ft. only raised or lowered the F3 by a few Hz. Ported would be more critical I think.

Those look great. First thing I thought when I saw your rendering was "Man, a granite top on those would look killer". Might not be too expensive if you made an exact template and took it to a fabricator and had them make up a couple using remnants, like sink cutouts. Just a thought.

Thanks emilime. I kind of forgot about this post, life got busy, but I did end up getting two granite toppers for these that match the roundovers on the sides. They are almost pure black with just a touch of glimmer in them. They look like glass -- totally beautiful. I'm glad I listened to others' advice on this board. The cost was $300 for the two of them.

I can hear a substantial difference in soundstage depth/base response by moving my subs 1/4" in either direction. As a matter of fact, the height is the same. Proper placement, rather it be inward/outward from the walls or height is crutial for reproducing the event. Also, the choice of, in my case, forward firing, sidefiring..etc.....

The thing is.... TIME put into (your) unique set-up.

You have better ears than I do!

Personally, the more heft I can add to a subwoofer cabinet, the better. I used to make all my subs with double-thick particle board, 1 1/2" thick with braces, and a few I made with 3" thick panels. The deader the better in my opinion, but there are better and lighter ways to achieve a dead cabinet. I'm learning in my middle-age to build lighter cabinets that are still dead resonant-wise. My back just can't take super-heavy cabs anymore.

I should have these veneered and finished in a few weeks or so. Work and college have gotten in the way of my speaker-building once again.

TomZ

[SLS]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

Thanks for your reply. For some reason it didn't come into my inbox.

The heavier the sub, the less likely we are to experiment with placement. I have dialed mine in over years of listening. I guess someone with the proper equipment, (spectrum analyser...etc.) could do it quicker. Having said that, there is an element of being one with one's' system that is very important.

[tomzarbo]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

Finally got to do some veneering last night and tonight...



I thought about how to do it for several days. I re-read a previous post on how to handle seams when veneering and when push came to shove, I chickened out. I had planned on leaving about 2 inches un-glued on each surface, the veneer and the box, and then planned on trimming the overlapping ends of the veneer when the big pieces were already glued using the iron-on method.
The problem I had was I didn't think I could lift the edge up enough to get glue in there without breaking it. I know it is possible because I know that others have done it, and I appreciate the advice from some folks here, but I just didn't think I could pull it off, so I just iron-on method-ed both front and back with a 1 to 2 inch seam that I will trim and glue in a strip of veneer later. I'm going to have some careful trimming and fussing to pull off a seamless seam - so to speak, but I'll take my time and hopefully it will turn out okay. I've gotten pretty good at covering up my boo-boo's over the years, there have been so many!

And here are the two granite slabs that will sit on the top of these boxes:



They are 1 1/4" thick and have a bevel on the top-to-side edge. They're polished to look like glass and they are 38 lbs. each. I'm not attaching them to the boxes. I will just glue on some thin foam to the tops of the wood box and just set them on top. I need to be able to take them off if I need to move them. They're really beautiful pieces, pics don't do them justice. They are flawless. I went to a local kitchen shop and they were nice enough to get a fairly local (20 miles away) shop to make them up for me.

I'm kind of excited to finally be able to get these two subs in my stereo room to see what they can do. I'll be powering them with my APA150 amp for the time being; I'm eventually planning on using the Crown XLS 1500 amp, but will wait a bit on that one.

I should be able to finish the veneer work on these in a few days and hopefully have them polyurethane'd and assembled in my stereo room by this weekend or middle of next week I hope. These took a lot longer than I thought to finish; work is really getting in the way of my hobby!

TomZ

[Beau]

Re: Dual Titanic Sub Build

"I'm eventually planning on using the Crown XLS 1500 amp, but will wait a bit on that one."

I just rec'd mine last week. It is really nice. PM Sent