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5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

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  • 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

    I am somewhat familiar with the RS sound signature as I do have a pair of RS microbes that use the RS125 (though they are smaller and do not have the same bass response the RS150 would have). However since I have never had the opportunity to listen to any of the ND series drivers, I have no idea what type of sound they produce. What can I expect as far as differences between the ND and RS mid woofers in an MTM configuration in a tower sized enclosure and also in a sealed design for use as a center?

    More specifically I am looking for a comparison between the Aviatrix using the ND140 with the RS28F tweeter and the RS150 MTM by CJD using the same RS28F tweeter. Given the Aviatrix can be completed for far less money when purchased as a kit, I guess my real question becomes... is the RS series worth spending that much more money on?

    If anyone that has heard both in a similar configuration, I would love to hear about what you thought of each.

  • #2
    Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

    The RS series is worth the money IMO over the NDs. And the NDs are no slouch, producing bass that belies their size. The RS series however are cleaner, clearer and more well behaved.
    https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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    • #3
      Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

      Originally posted by isaeagle4031 View Post
      The RS series is worth the money IMO over the NDs. And the NDs are no slouch, producing bass that belies their size. The RS series however are cleaner, clearer and more well behaved.
      +1
      Craig

      The lowest possible F3 box alignment is not always the best alignment.

      Designing and building speaker projects are like playing with adult Lego Blocks for me.

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      • #4
        Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

        I've heard CJD's RS150 MTM many times. It is a wonderful speaker. It has a very clean crisp neutral sound. I don't find it harsh, but it can be revealing. I think the lack of distortion can make some feel something is missing. Hearing his RS150 and larger 3-ways convinced me that I wanted something similar, hence the Khanspire series. Chris is a perfectionist with his crossovers, and I do think it is audible if you really listen. I'm a big fan. These are great with any type of music, but will excel at jazz, classical, vocal, etc.

        I have not heard the Aviatrix. But, have full faith in Curt. I've heard several of his other designs and they don't fail.

        But, I have heard these: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35905
        These were also done by CJD and use the ND140 like the Avia. But, they use a Vifa BC25SC06 Fabric Dome tweeter. I love the sound of these too. Again crisp and clear, but not as clear as the RS150/RS28. But a little warmer sound, a little more emphasis in the bass range. My brother is still impressing his friends with his, and I'm enjoying my pair. These probably do a little bit better with rock music than the RS150 music, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the RS150 for rock and music - I do.
        - Ryan

        CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
        CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
        CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
        CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

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        • #5
          Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

          I've heard all of the aforementioned designs as well. Ryan is pretty much right on the money with his characterization of sonic differences. I think the application differences are also worth mentioning.

          The Aviatrix or Sietecerocero (ND140 designs) will have more bass extension than RS150 based designs of similar size/type. RS150 based designs (such as CJD's MTM) will have lower distortion from the midbass through the midrange.

          The Aviatrix is unusual in that the crossover point from the ND140 to RS28f is 1 kHz - so if you are planning to lay one on its side as a center channel, that would be an advantage.
          Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.

          Sehlin Sound Solutions

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          • #6
            Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

            Originally posted by ---k--- View Post
            I've heard CJD's RS150 MTM many times. It is a wonderful speaker. It has a very clean crisp neutral sound. I don't find it harsh, but it can be revealing. I think the lack of distortion can make some feel something is missing. Hearing his RS150 and larger 3-ways convinced me that I wanted something similar, hence the Khanspire series. Chris is a perfectionist with his crossovers, and I do think it is audible if you really listen. I'm a big fan. These are great with any type of music, but will excel at jazz, classical, vocal, etc.

            I have not heard the Aviatrix. But, have full faith in Curt. I've heard several of his other designs and they don't fail.

            But, I have heard these: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35905
            These were also done by CJD and use the ND140 like the Avia. But, they use a Vifa BC25SC06 Fabric Dome tweeter. I love the sound of these too. Again crisp and clear, but not as clear as the RS150/RS28. But a little warmer sound, a little more emphasis in the bass range. My brother is still impressing his friends with his, and I'm enjoying my pair. These probably do a little bit better with rock music than the RS150 music, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the RS150 for rock and music - I do.
            Thanks Ryan! I was hoping you or Chris would step in and give an opinion. I had looked into the Ochocinco series as well which lead me to the Aviatrix as I think I would prefer the RS28 tweeter over the BC25SC06 although I don't have any experience with the Vifa. I'm still reading up a lot and keeping my options open. I would have loved to go with the Khans but I think they are just too large for my room. What about using an In-Khan-Neato as a floor-stander? Had Chris ever drawn up a crossover for this. Seems like a small 3 way would be a great fit for my smaller sized room if I decide not to go the MTM route.

            Originally posted by scottsehlin View Post
            I've heard all of the aforementioned designs as well. Ryan is pretty much right on the money with his characterization of sonic differences. I think the application differences are also worth mentioning.

            The Aviatrix or Sietecerocero (ND140 designs) will have more bass extension than RS150 based designs of similar size/type. RS150 based designs (such as CJD's MTM) will have lower distortion from the midbass through the midrange.

            The Aviatrix is unusual in that the crossover point from the ND140 to RS28f is 1 kHz - so if you are planning to lay one on its side as a center channel, that would be an advantage.


            Good points here as well... And yes, I would be using one in a horizontal position as a center channel.

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            • #7
              Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

              Sorry I'm not as active anymore. I just happened to stumble in here the other day.

              I think the In-Khan might be one of my favorite speakers. There is just something magical about the way it came together. It kills me that it is being used as a rear and that I haven't really spent much time listening to it beyond the initial test drive. I think CJD shares this impression.

              CJD did do a crossover for a floor standing in-khan-neato. The crossover is in the design thread. We never built it. So, on one hand, it is hard for me to recommend, as I _try_ and limit my recommendations to designs/designers I've heard first hand. But, on the other hand, MY only speaker that CJD made adjustments to after hearing the crossover was the original Khan and that was to put a steeper slope in on the mid, not really to voice. What came out of the models is what I built. There was also a revision to the Ochocinco crossover, but this was to accommodate the newer revision of the tweeter and not voicing. So, I would expect the floor standing version of the In-Khan to sound pretty darn good. FWIW, I think CJD just has some voodoo magic that he uses to get the crossover models right. Of course, he has said that he did a million models and real mic testing with the RS drivers in creating his RS150 MTM and his larger 3-way, that he gained enough insight into how they behave/sound in real life versus the models that he can get them right the first time. -Who wants to be like all those other people who build the same old same old speaker. Be different and build the Out-Khan! ;)

              I wouldn't be scared of the Vifa tweeter in the Ocho. It is a great little value tweeter. I believe Zaph measured it and agreed with this assessment. Yes the RS28 is a step up, but it also costs 4x as much. Is it worth it? Maybe not in a $100/ea Ocho. The Ocho's pack _a lot_ of value into a reasonable package. The Aviatrix are a step up in sound quality but at a cost which I don't think is unreasonable. Beyond any voicing differences, I personally think the differences between the two will be nuances and really depend on how much of a critical listener you are versus an enjoyer.
              - Ryan

              CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
              CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
              CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
              CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

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              • #8
                Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

                Great insight Ryan. Thanks so much. I will look into the Out-Khan a little more as I would love to do a 3 way if I can swing it. I assume the Khan Center would be a good fit to round out the set? However is there any way to make the center a little shorter? Maybe using truncated flanges for the mid and tweeter or something? I have space limitations for the center speaker.
                Last edited by lamski; 09-27-2013, 01:49 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

                  Originally posted by lamski View Post
                  Great insight Ryan. Thanks so much. I will look into the Out-Khan a little more as I would love to do a 3 way if I can swing it. I assume the Khan Center would be a good fit to round out the set? However is there any way to make the center a little shorter? Maybe using truncated flanges for the mid and tweeter or something? I have space limitations for the canter speaker.
                  The Khancenter should match well any of CJD's RS designs, including his RS150MTM. I feel your pain about the height limitations. That seems to be a common problem. I don't see an issue swapping the face plate out for the truncated one and pushing the tweeter down tight to the RS150. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=275-138
                  - Ryan

                  CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                  CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                  CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
                  CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

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                  • #10
                    Re: 5" Midwoofer: RS vs. ND (CJD's RS150 MTM vs. Aviatrix)

                    The RS150 is a phenomenal driver. I used it in my Aria's and couldn't be more impressed. +1 on isaeagle's comments.
                    DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                    The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                    The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                    The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                    AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

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