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  • Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

    I have a friend at work who got himself a 2-way bookshelf speaker designed by Dave Thomas that use a Seas W18-EX and ScanSpeak HDS. He absolutely loves them but now wants to go large and throw down some serious cash on a line array.

    Its a pretty big leap I know, but it does sound like a very neat project that I must jump on the opportunity to help with.

    I wanted to open up a thread here to get some suggestions on some possibilities. He wants the same quality of his bookshelf just on a much larger scale. Budget will be roughly $3500 for drivers so this will open up the possibilities for lots of drivers, not just cheap ones. No other restrictions. (Those new Dayton PM180 Neo Drivers tested by Jeff might be an option. Perhaps paired with a line of the new Dayton AMTs?)

    So please jump in and let me know what you might suggest with that budget.

    BTW, I have an Omnimic to perform the necessary measurements and I have a few experience crossover designers I can ask who can help with the crossover. Just wanted to get the thought process going and see what options might be available.

  • #2
    Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

    Originally posted by NateTTU View Post
    I have a friend at work who got himself a 2-way bookshelf speaker designed by Dave Thomas that use a Seas W18-EX and ScanSpeak HDS. He absolutely loves them but now wants to go large and throw down some serious cash on a line array.

    Its a pretty big leap I know, but it does sound like a very neat project that I must jump on the opportunity to help with.

    I wanted to open up a thread here to get some suggestions on some possibilities. He wants the same quality of his bookshelf just on a much larger scale. Budget will be roughly $3500 for drivers so this will open up the possibilities for lots of drivers, not just cheap ones. No other restrictions. (Those new Dayton PM180 Neo Drivers tested by Jeff might be an option. Perhaps paired with a line of the new Dayton AMTs?)

    So please jump in and let me know what you might suggest with that budget.

    BTW, I have an Omnimic to perform the necessary measurements and I have a few experience crossover designers I can ask who can help with the crossover. Just wanted to get the thought process going and see what options might be available.
    He could save some serious money and go this route: http://billfitzmaurice.info/

    And from what I have read the Audio Artistry CBT36K Line Array Speaker Kit Pair is supposed to be pretty killer.

    Both might be worth a look...

    Kevin
    Shaken, not stirred...

    Classix II
    OS MTM's
    Digger 8 sub
    Overnight Sensations Center Channel
    Sprite Build
    Wolf's PC Speakers
    Minions III with Voxel Sub

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

      You might want to look at Rick Craig's site. Here is his SB Acoustics array kit

      http://www.selahaudio.com/id259.html

      Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
      He could save some serious money and go this route: http://billfitzmaurice.info/

      And from what I have read the Audio Artistry CBT36K Line Array Speaker Kit Pair is supposed to be pretty killer.

      Both might be worth a look...

      Kevin
      Last edited by lorenmjones; 10-11-2013, 09:50 PM. Reason: Wrong link
      Loren Jones

      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

        You might want to check the url and your text. Not sure what a sleep over has to do with line arrays...

        Kevin
        Shaken, not stirred...

        Classix II
        OS MTM's
        Digger 8 sub
        Overnight Sensations Center Channel
        Sprite Build
        Wolf's PC Speakers
        Minions III with Voxel Sub

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

          From the book-shelve speaker to a line array is a fairly large "up" in quality. The design of the crossover of an array is somewhat different from the conventional loudspeaker because the drivers frequency response does not add up the same way and distance dependent. But any speaker is a set of compromises so is a line array and there are ways to deal with it.
          You can go about it two ways. Either design and build everything yourself with the help of forum members or buy a kit such as CBT and assemble it.
          Good idea would be to invest in MiniDSP 4x10HD or similar unit.
          If you decide to build and design yourself then I'll continue with the driver recommendations. $3500 is a doable budget for a very high performance array.
          http://www.diy-ny.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array


            who doesn't love a sleepover? to the OP, why not the line array sold here: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=301-980. i don't think you would miss cutting the 90 holes per side. trust me. plus it's well below your budget. just my thoughts.

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            • #7
              Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

              From experience, resist the temptation to dump a load of cash on the best drivers you can find.
              1. When building arrays, the end result is often better than the sum of the parts.
              2. Chose 4" drivers, Minimizing the Center to Center distance is rather important in array design and by picking smaller drivers, you'll save yourself a ton of problems mating to the tweeter line . Decent 4" drivers should dig low enough to mate well with a sub.

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              • #8
                Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                Thanks so much for the replies thus far guys. I did forget to mention the CBT Line Arrays to him, but those will certainly be an option. However, I have the feeling that he would much rather use up all the money on the table so to speak, provided the extra money spent yields a better speaker. He doesn't seem to be afraid of the challenge of building these so definitely appreciate more driver selections as well.

                Would creating a 3 way line array be an option to run full range without any subs? These will be music only speakers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                  Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
                  From the book-shelve speaker to a line array is a fairly large "up" in quality. The design of the crossover of an array is somewhat different from the conventional loudspeaker because the drivers frequency response does not add up the same way and distance dependent. But any speaker is a set of compromises so is a line array and there are ways to deal with it.
                  You can go about it two ways. Either design and build everything yourself with the help of forum members or buy a kit such as CBT and assemble it.
                  Good idea would be to invest in MiniDSP 4x10HD or similar unit.
                  If you decide to build and design yourself then I'll continue with the driver recommendations. $3500 is a doable budget for a very high performance array.
                  +1
                  Kenny

                  http://www.diy-ny.com/
                  DIY NY/NJ 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwA...ature=youtu.be
                  Man does not live by measurements alone, a little music helps.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                    Well the sleepover was a little OT, but oh well. Stinking cut and paste mistake.

                    I do think the Rick Craig designs are worth looking at, especially the SB array kit. Price is in his range. It has pretty full range performance, quality but not exotic drivers.

                    Are there any array designs with the RS 7"?
                    Loren Jones

                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                      Originally posted by NateTTU View Post

                      Would creating a 3 way line array be an option to run full range without any subs? These will be music only speakers.
                      Because of how the cancellation and high frequency loss occurs in the array, you want your woofer array consisting from 4"-5" no bigger then that. On the upper end you will jump (ideally) to the long ribbon tweeters like this one: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=299-465
                      This tweeter is actually a Fountek 2.0. Very good deal on these, only a couple of $ higher then wholesale. Raised upper octave is of a benefit, again because of the HF cancellation. Anyway, your 4"-5" midwoofers will go in to 100hz or slightly below, where spacial recognition is not an issue any more and you can jump the low end to dedicated subwoofers/large woofers, depending on how low you want to go. Tri-amped, DSP, it'll be fun.

                      The advantages of CBT are in it's revolutionary combination of shading and physical shape which reflect in a very even polar response. Straight arrays are designed more customized to the listening area where CBT is much more universal. Myself, I can't get the reasonable description of how CBT presents the music and haven't heard it, so I have no personal opinion on them.
                      http://www.diy-ny.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                        The larger the woofer, the larger the spacing from center to center, and the lower the frequency at which destructive interference occurs.
                        If you want to throw a genuinely spectacular amount of money at some line arrays, you could get a huge quantity of Bohlender-Graebner Neo3 and Neo10 tweeters and midranges. It'd sound great, but don't ask about the price...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                          Originally posted by NateTTU View Post
                          However, I have the feeling that he would much rather use up all the money on the table so to speak, provided the extra money spent yields a better speaker.
                          Maybe 2 grand for the speakers and $1500 on room treatments?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                            I agree, room treatments are a great idea, and will make any system perform better. With that budget, you should have more than enough to do both a killer speaker and room treatments.
                            My modest builds:
                            Armadillo TM, A.K.A. Lil' Dillo
                            Tarkus/Armadillo build #2
                            Armadillo Center Channel
                            Au-Rock-O Sub
                            Tarkus
                            Staining MDF tutorial

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                            • #15
                              Re: Need Input: Friend Now Wants a Line Array

                              That's fair enough. He can use whatever budget is left over for room treatments, but I couldn't blame him if he didn't want to spend $1500 on them I agree he will have to do some, but he might have to hold off a little while if he uses up his full budget up front.

                              Those neo3 & 10s would be around 4K... So probably a no go on that one. Did sound pretty cool though.

                              So what you are telling me is it would not be beneficial to have a line of say 8" drives that crossover around 300Hz to a line of 4" that go to 2.5kHz then the tweeters take over from there?

                              Any recommendations on some 4-5" drivers? Noticed the SB15MFC drivers measured pretty well. Sensitivity isn't to bad at 89db on the 4 ohm.

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