Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Room treatment recommendations

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Room treatment recommendations

    I am starting work on my small basement listening/test area and would like some ideas on how to improve the space.

    The link in my sig has a few pics of what I am dealing with. The area is only 8ft wide and 12ft long with 80in in height. I have put in a slightly raised floor (pressure treated 2x4 under 1/2"OSB) I am planning on adding 3 false walls to block off all the brick around me. The ceiling will have acoustic ceiling tiles attached to floor joists.

    My thought was to put in r11 insulation in the false walls and cover that with fabric stapled to the studs. Then maybe floor to ceiling curtains. Or simply putting paneling across the studs and adding "acoustic tiles" to the 3 walls.

    The area behind me is somewhat open and contains my workbench and cabinets (full of drivers of course ) and is all brick. This area is about 11ft wide and 6ft long.

    So ideas, critiques, comments, assistance?
    https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

  • #2
    Re: Room treatment recommendations

    I've never heard a "treated" small room that didn't sound completely lifeless. Fine for monitoring I guess, but just not an enjoyable reproduction of space.

    It seems to me that the optimum really is just "normal furnishings": book/record cases, upholstered furniture, an area rug on the floor, etc.
    --
    "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Room treatment recommendations

      Originally posted by Pallas View Post
      I've never heard a "treated" small room that didn't sound completely lifeless.
      That's mainly due to overuse of absorptive materials, and not allowing a good balance of reflection, absorption and diffusion. I might suggest a quick search on "Small Room Acoustics" to dive into more details. If the room has too much of ANY one of those (listed above) it will create acoustic anomalies. The trick is... having a good balance of each.
      ~Marty

      Baby Eidolons
      Sapphos
      Cables (Post #54)
      Other speakers (Post #21)
      Design Thoughts (Posts: 6,10,13,33,35)
      Boundary Augmentation
      Dispersion/Interference

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Room treatment recommendations

        Some suggestions:

        1. Start off with a quick analysis of the rooms "Modes". Axial, tangential and oblique modes are super easy to calculate. This will give you some idea of the coincident modes that might give you problems. If you DO have major issues with modes, you can cleverly locate the speakers so that they don't excite those particular room modes. It's physics... and independent of the frequency response of the speaker.

        2. Or possibly build a quick and dirty Helmholtz resonator tuned to address the exact frequency of concern.

        3. Read about Quadratic Residue diffusors and why they help. Be careful to observe the frequency range that any given design will be effective. (Usually a function of the slot width and depth.)

        4. Be aware of the wavelengths involved. e.g. - at high frequencies you can treat sound like a "ray". You can even use a laser pointer and/or a mirror to figure out first reflection point from the side walls. But that method doesn't work for long wavelengths (bass).

        5. Lastly, read about boundary augmentation curves. A speaker's frequency response will be augmented depending on its proximity to the boundaries. Knowing how much a speaker is affected and what ratios to experiment with can help.

        Have fun.
        ~Marty

        Baby Eidolons
        Sapphos
        Cables (Post #54)
        Other speakers (Post #21)
        Design Thoughts (Posts: 6,10,13,33,35)
        Boundary Augmentation
        Dispersion/Interference

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Room treatment recommendations

          I'm not so sure about build walls over the brick. I've heard those Intrepids and unless you double up the sheet rock those walls are going to rock and roll when the bass hits! I'd just paint the brick with Drylock,,, add a fluffier rug,,,, a nice overstuffed fabric couch,,,, some pictures on the walls and be done. Well,,,, maybe also something soft at the first reflection point on the side walls, using the mirror method to find it.

          Oh yea,,,, get rid of all the other speakers in the room. I would think with the air those Intrepids are capable of moving,,,, all the other woffers in the room are moving too!

          Good luck, Mark

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Room treatment recommendations

            Be careful with the acoustic tile. I think it ruined my room. I need to have huge subwoofers to get the same bass that a regular 12" sub does in our family room. Also, watch out for flutter, have lots of diffusion.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Room treatment recommendations

              I should have mentioned that getting building materials down there is near impossible. I can get lumber through the window but sheet goods are limited to about 56" in length. The extra speaks will have new homes, someday. If I do build the walls, they will be braced not only top to bottom but to the brick as well. The acoustic tiles will be attached to 1x2s running perpendicular to the floor joists. I have a carpet remnant going in as well. My listening chair is a recliner from IKEA. No way I can get a couch down there.

              Thanks Mark on the Intrepid remark. I have no worries on the bass end for sure. More of a concern of rattling the rest of the house lol. They actually sound great now in there. Bass of course is solid and imaging is fantastic. They don't seem overly bright.

              The main reasons for this build out are a bit more creature comfort and a decent testing area. The additional plus is to give my kids a place to play their games and hang with dad. its my cave but I love having them come down for awhile.
              https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Room treatment recommendations

                This question gets asked often, but never gets a straight answer. Probably because everyone's room is different. What might be correct for one user, might not be for another.

                I think the one improvement that should work for everyone is to put panels directly behind you. While room gain and some reflections might work for you, no one should like hearing anything bouncing off the rear wall.

                2nd improvement might be to find the first main wall reflection and place sound absorption their.

                3rd, and this might just come down to the room, how close the speakers are to the wall or corner, but to place tiles behind the speaker. This can improve any bad issues the wall might extend the baffle effects.

                After that, maybe bass traps in the corner, if you need them. I know I have a minor null in the 80-100hz range, but its not really bad. I don't have any horrible gain points. If you have gains or nulls in the mid range, you can play with moving the speakers closer or farther from the wall.

                If you have hardwood floors, cement, something that reflects everything, a floor rug goes a LONG way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Room treatment recommendations

                  Thanks for the suggestions guys. keep them coming. Given how large my mains are and how small the room is I can't really pull them out from the walls much. I can pull them forward a bit. The tuning freq is at 25hz and vents out the back. Another part of the false wall idea is that both sides will be seeing equal wall surfaces.
                  https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Room treatment recommendations

                    Originally posted by ReissM View Post
                    That's mainly due to overuse of absorptive materials, and not allowing a good balance of reflection, absorption and diffusion. I might suggest a quick search on "Small Room Acoustics" to dive into more details. If the room has too much of ANY one of those (listed above) it will create acoustic anomalies. The trick is... having a good balance of each.
                    Fortunately, in practice a near-optimal balance is usually struck by normal room furnishings, placed so as to create a pleasing look and smooth flow in the room.

                    Others are welcome to mutilate their homes with all sorts of "acoustic" eyesores, of course.

                    Originally posted by isaeagle4031 View Post
                    The main reasons for this build out are a bit more creature comfort and a decent testing area.
                    Then focus on things that bring creature comfort. And perhaps a miniDSP to EQ the bass to compensate for placement, etc.

                    Originally posted by generic View Post
                    I think the one improvement that should work for everyone is to put panels directly behind you. While room gain and some reflections might work for you, no one should like hearing anything bouncing off the rear wall.
                    Late reflections increase spaciousness, though. However, one room mutilation that may be beneficial is to have a very absorbent front wall. Those very early reflections merge with the direct signal in our heads.

                    Originally posted by generic View Post
                    If you have hardwood floors, cement, something that reflects everything, a floor rug goes a LONG way.
                    That is very true with most speakers. Perhaps not with a CBT, but with basically anything that's a point source.
                    --
                    "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Room treatment recommendations

                      Good points Pallas. maybe what I will do is put up paneling with diffusers or curtains on the back wall. a couple of diffusers and pics posters on the sides. Not much I can do about the rear wall. I have a couple of lsrgeish cabinets and my workbench there.
                      https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Room treatment recommendations

                        There's a whole science of room acoustics a la http://www.parts-express.com/master-...m_campaign=pla and http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=sGmz0yONYFcC . As well as measurement software http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Room treatment recommendations

                          Originally posted by isaeagle4031 View Post
                          I should have mentioned that getting building materials down there is near impossible. I can get lumber through the window but sheet goods are limited to about 56" in length. The extra speaks will have new homes, someday. If I do build the walls, they will be braced not only top to bottom but to the brick as well. The acoustic tiles will be attached to 1x2s running perpendicular to the floor joists. I have a carpet remnant going in as well. My listening chair is a recliner from IKEA. No way I can get a couch down there.

                          Thanks Mark on the Intrepid remark. I have no worries on the bass end for sure. More of a concern of rattling the rest of the house lol. They actually sound great now in there. Bass of course is solid and imaging is fantastic. They don't seem overly bright.

                          The main reasons for this build out are a bit more creature comfort and a decent testing area. The additional plus is to give my kids a place to play their games and hang with dad. its my cave but I love having them come down for awhile.
                          That's why I suggested you just paint the walls and be done. The bass in my basement with concrete walls is also very good, and if the high end isn't overly bright,,,,, why build walls that will do nothing more than take space away from that seemingly small space.

                          Making it comfy I understand,,,,, making it smaller,,,, not so much. Besides,,,,the room is for your ears,,,,, not your eyes! Later, Mark

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Room treatment recommendations

                            i have never been in any room, other than a dedicated listening room, that could not greatly benefit from some room treatment. a few well placed absorptive panels, "few" being the key, and placing something on the wall behind your speakers will make a noted improvement in sound. also in a room that small some corner traps will make the biggest difference of anything you can do. you can make your own corner traps easily and cheaply. I think that the mutilate is very melodramatic statement. get online and look at some of the products out available. there are some very nice products you can replicate. I like the looks of the space, but I think that any thing you add to it will not "mutilate" the Prague castle theme going on at the moment.
                            craigk

                            " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Room treatment recommendations

                              perhaps heavy curtains over the stud walls will be a nice diffuser.
                              pm your address. I have a great poster for you.
                              " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

                              Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
                              Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

                              http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
                              http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X