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Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

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  • Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

    Happy New Year everyone! Hope you all had a great holidays and are doing well.

    I finally had a chance to finish up a project that was in the same build state of virtually done since last Christmas. I had the crossovers voiced and built, but never had time to do the final touches to fit the drivers into the cabs permanently. This Christmas break gave me just enough time to squeeze in completing this project.

    I call it the Jasmine, a 2-way TM using the Fountek FW146 mid/woofer and Fountek Neo CD3.0 tweeter. I don't have any woodworking equipment (if Hong reads this, I'm sure he'll make fun of my dremel work and lack of a router), so I didn't want to have a cabinet from scratch made. Instead, I used the cabs from a pair of Pioneer BS21 speakers that I had originally purchased with plans to repurpose the cabs anyways. I like the size of the BS21 cabs (I'm a fan of small to medium standmount speakers) and I'm a sucker for curved sides.
    So I took the stock drivers out and tried fitting the Jasmine drivers in. A year ago, I quickly discovered the FW146s are just a bit too large in OD than the BS21 woofers (about 3mm). Plus the odd cutout shape of the BS21 woofer also prevented the FW146 from dropping in. So out came my hack saw to make the cutout work. With no real wood working tools, I used sand paper and good old fashion elbow grease and hand sanded the OD enough for the FW146 to fit. For anyone else thinking about doing this by hand, it takes an amazing amount of time to hand sand 3mm of MDF, especially when it's just the OD for the driver flange (a cutout would've been much easier). This sanding is one of the two reasons it took over a year to complete the Jasmines. The other reason was the tweeter cutout being too large for the Neo CD3.0. The OD is also a bit larger, but that didn't pose a fitment problem, just an aesthetic issue. First I tried gluing small pieces of MDF behind the cutout for the screws that would mount the CD3.0 to bite into and had to be careful where I placed them as the large magnet/motor of the CD3.0 took a lot of space and is pretty close to the mounting hole location. The small glued MDF pieces worked on 1 cab, but not on the other where they just fell off. So I took larger pieces and screwed them into the cutout, recessing the screws into the driver cutout recess.
    Anyways, after all that was said and done, I finally got the Jasmines fully assembled. This is my first design attempt with a metal cone mid/woofer. The sound is different from what I'm used to. On some material it sounds great, while on others I prefer the sound of my paper or poly designs. The upper bass and lower mids (basically the FW146's contribution) sound similar to other metal woofer designs I've heard, so I guess it's a sound that many like. I just may take some time getting used to it. It's great with female vocals, but I prefer the sound of paper or poly with male vocals. The Neo CD3.0s have their characteristic airiness and sound similar to the smaller CD1.0 that others are used to in Paul's Speedster design. Overall a very pleasing speaker to listen to, but for me, a bit different from my comfort zone.
    Here's some pics of the finished speakers. I used some speaker gasketing tape to fill in the gap between the Neo CD3.0 face plate and the tweeter OD. Overall I think it looks quite nice and again, I love the size and curved sides. I think I'll paint them a different color though.




    Crossover Schematic
    Woofer is BW3 at 2.3kHz. Tweeter is BW3 at 3kHz. Slopes are acoustic. Both drivers are connected positive terminal to positive power. Sorry, I forgot to put that in the pic.


    Frequency Response - on my home computer, I can't get phase or power response to show up (not sure why). Phase alignment is almost on top of one another at the crossover point and stays close to one another on both sides of the XO point. The slight rise in the tweeter response was done via my voicing. It sounds more balanced to me with that slight rise. I've noticed I do the same thing with the CD1.0 when voicing with it. I don't normally like doing that with domes, but with the Fountek ribbons, I prefer to voice them that way.


    Overall System Phase
    Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
    Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
    Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
    Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
    Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

  • #2
    Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

    I like 'em.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

      Thanks Chris. Doesn't seem to be much interest from the community though.
      Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
      Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
      Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
      Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
      Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

        Wow! Surprising change from the little BS21! I've searched pretty hard for a "popularly priced" woofer that's a fit or near fit for the OEM woofer but with "better" performance. I really haven't found one. Do you have a feel for an in room F3 with the Fountek? I won't run out and buy them, but I'm curious. I also own one pair of the BS22's that Andy improved in every way over the 21's.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

          I remember a time when a project like this would have generated quite a buzz - if for no other reason than the repurposing of existing commercial cabinets. Well done, jsr.
          Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

            I should have commented earlier. They look very good. Kudos on reusing the enclosures and the look is excellent.
            https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

              Thanks guys. I started this project over a year ago when modding the Pioneers were the in thing. The cabinet and driver mounting took much longer than anticipated.

              Whitney,
              I too was looking for a woofer that would be as close to drop in as possible. It took a lot of searching and I recall flip flopping between a couple of woofers and finally chose the Fountek. Partially because I liked the way it looks and to try a design using a metal cone. F3 seems to be about mid 50s in my room. Balanced and punchy but not hard hitting. The FW146 could use a bit larger cab, but with it all done, I love the way the setup looks in the BS21 cabs.
              Last edited by jsr; 01-03-2014, 02:32 PM.
              Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
              Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
              Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
              Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
              Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                Hi jsr,

                I used a pair of the same cabinets for a project of mine. I used the VIFA XT25TG30-04 1" tweeter and a buyout woofer, PEERLESS INDIA W5-KA538A-SH 5.25" SHIELDED WOOFER 4 OHM. The performance of the stock speaker was dismal at best. If I remember correctly, the cabinets sported a 4 1/4 inch woofer in a adapter and some cheesy 2 dollar tweeter. The Vifa tweeter has a smaller face plate which allowed me to move it closer to the woofer in the cabinet. After a week of tuning , they turned out a lot better then stock. The hardest part of my project was taming the tweeter. (i ended up reversing the polarity on it from the X-over)
                Click image for larger version

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                My ears are not what they used to be. I blame my high performance car audio system

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                  Just to update impressions on my Jasmine design. They've had a good amount of time and material to break in and I think they sound better than my initial impression of them. The sound stage is quite different than my other designs but female vocals and instruments sound amazing through them. And bass is very punchy and fast. I'm starting to really like this design. I guess I'm getting used to the metal cone sound. When I initially compared them to my W4-704D poly cone design, I preferred poly cone but comparing the last night the Jasmines sounded more accurate and clear, particularly with vocals.
                  Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                  Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                  Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                  Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                  Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                    great looking speaker. I am sure they sound as good as they look.
                    craigk

                    " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                      Nice work!

                      Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
                      I remember a time when a project like this would have generated quite a buzz - if for no other reason than the repurposing of existing commercial cabinets. Well done, jsr.
                      I second that. Also, curious to hear the speaker but it's a bit far
                      http://www.diy-ny.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                        Thanks Craig. Luckily you can't see it in the pics but the tweeter on both are slightly tilted. I didn't notice that when I first put the together but saw it immediately later. It drives me nuts but I can't do anything about it now. That's what I get for rushing to put the together. But I do like how well the matte metal cone looks with the ribbon. The poly design is what the Jasmines are sitting on...a 3way tower with W4-704D and RT003C planar ribbon.
                        Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                        Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                        Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                        Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                        Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                          Thanks Roman. If you're ever in Southern California, shoot me an email and you can audition anything you want. And I'll take you to some good eats.
                          Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                          Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                          Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                          Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                          Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                            You might consider a sanding drum on a drill next time - those are pretty minimal tools.
                            I think it would come out reasonably round if you keep it moving around the hole.
                            Nice work!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Jasmine speaker in Pioneer BS21 cabinet - Finally done!

                              Thanks Pete. I do have a dremel with sanding drums. But I've used that on previous speakers and i can't get the that round. You have to be really smooth in moving the Samsung drum around at a very constant pace with consistent pressure. Apparently not my strength. Lol.
                              Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                              Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                              Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                              Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                              Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                              Comment

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