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Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

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  • #16
    Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

    Ben,

    My front door at my house faces the sun and I have a large full glass storm door on the outside. When I open my door it is so stinking hot in that little cavity that I can hardly touch the door to open or close it.

    I think it would be possible to get a scrap of glass (from an old storm window, etc. and build a little box out of junky old plywood and paint it dark inside and out. Have the glass side facing the sun and let it bake for the hot part of a few days. I've thought about doing this several times, and may end up using the halogen bulb "heater" trick to cure the MDF in my current project.

    I would think this would work pretty well for curing paint. I'd be awful nervous about having something wood in an oven. I once tried to bake a finish on a metal piece I made in our electric oven, and even on it's lowest setting, the paint got funny in a few areas. I would hate to see your beautiful speakers have a goofed up finish on them after all your hard work.

    TomZ
    *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
    *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

    *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

      Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
      Ben,

      My front door at my house faces the sun and I have a large full glass storm door on the outside. When I open my door it is so stinking hot in that little cavity that I can hardly touch the door to open or close it.

      I think it would be possible to get a scrap of glass (from an old storm window, etc. and build a little box out of junky old plywood and paint it dark inside and out. Have the glass side facing the sun and let it bake for the hot part of a few days. I've thought about doing this several times, and may end up using the halogen bulb "heater" trick to cure the MDF in my current project.

      I would think this would work pretty well for curing paint. I'd be awful nervous about having something wood in an oven. I once tried to bake a finish on a metal piece I made in our electric oven, and even on it's lowest setting, the paint got funny in a few areas. I would hate to see your beautiful speakers have a goofed up finish on them after all your hard work.

      TomZ
      Well- It's supposed to be 92* tomorrow, and that is not as hot as inside the garage will be. I'll be letting them cure all week in the garage, and see if I still then need to sun-cure them. This is how I normally do it, so I should be okay. You pretty much conveyed my sentiments exactly.

      A little green-house box, eh? Interesting....
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

        How fresh is the paint?
        How many layers, dry time between (including primers and sealers)?

        Any excessive heat has the potential to cause problems if the paint isn't dry or on damp substrates. Ever see old house paint blister in the sun? That little greenhouse could hit close to 200 if it's not well ventilated. Mid 100's with only slight ventilation.

        Take care...

        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
        Well- It's supposed to be 92* tomorrow, and that is not as hot as inside the garage will be. I'll be letting them cure all week in the garage, and see if I still then need to sun-cure them. This is how I normally do it, so I should be okay. You pretty much conveyed my sentiments exactly.

        A little green-house box, eh? Interesting....
        Wolf
        ~99%
        Make me an angel that flies from Montgomery
        Make me a poster of an old rodeo
        Just give me one thing that I can hold on to
        To believe in this livin' is just a hard way to go

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

          How'd my post get here an hour later?


          Ben,

          My front door at my house faces the sun and I have a large full glass storm door on the outside. When I open my door it is so stinking hot in that little cavity that I can hardly touch the door to open or close it.

          I think it would be possible to get a scrap of glass (from an old storm window, etc. and build a little box out of junky old plywood and paint it dark inside and out. Have the glass side facing the sun and let it bake for the hot part of a few days. I've thought about doing this several times, and may end up using the halogen bulb "heater" trick to cure the MDF in my current project.

          I would think this would work pretty well for curing paint. I'd be awful nervous about having something wood in an oven. I once tried to bake a finish on a metal piece I made in our electric oven, and even on it's lowest setting, the paint got funny in a few areas. I would hate to see your beautiful speakers have a goofed up finish on them after all your hard work.

          TomZ
          Last edited by tomzarbo; 06-17-2014, 06:39 AM. Reason: Some Fantastical, Magical, Radical Self-Posting Cyber-Mystical Weirdness Goin' On
          *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
          *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

          *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

            Originally posted by bobbarkto View Post
            How fresh is the paint?
            How many layers, dry time between (including primers and sealers)?

            Any excessive heat has the potential to cause problems if the paint isn't dry or on damp substrates. Ever see old house paint blister in the sun? That little greenhouse could hit close to 200 if it's not well ventilated. Mid 100's with only slight ventilation.

            Take care...
            Either way- I'm waiting a week before I attempt to sand or recoat. If it cures fine by then for the most part, then I won't feel the need to sun-bathe the cabs. I was not entertaining the greenhouse idea for this either way, just that it was an interesting thought prospect.

            Thanks, Bob!
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
              I just finished laying out some paint on a project with VHT High-Heat Burnt Copper, and went to look at the label (I know- shoulda read it FIRST!), and it said for best results to bake at 200* for 1 hour.

              I would obviously remove the xover, all wiring, drivers, and stuffing before attempting this.

              Now I'm contemplating doing it to get the full cure and hardness of the paint for durability's sake. I've just been looking up items on-line to see if they can tolerate the heat:

              Adhesives:
              Elmer's Glue-All
              Gorilla Glue

              Media:
              MDF
              1/2" thick cardboard tubing
              1/4" Hardboard
              Particle Board/Formica
              Biscuits
              Screws
              Clay kitty litter

              Paints currently on the cab:
              Krylon variety enamels testing for color, small spots
              Krylon Flat Chalkboard Black
              Krylon Matte finish
              VHT High-Heat Burnt Copper

              Now- I remember Aaron Hero used to 'bake' his boxes via a 1000W fluorescent bulb and a couple fans piping the heat through the inside of the enclosure to prevent seams and cure the glues, etc. (Not OSHA approved, but it worked under watchful eye!)

              Do I have anything I need to be concerned about in the cabs as they are currently containing the above items if I were to bake the cabs?
              Thanks for any insight any of you can offer,
              Wolf
              I'd be interested to see a 1,000 watt fluorescent lamp...I've never heard of that.

              Also, doesn't spray paint tend to "blush" when applied under too much humidity?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                Originally posted by marvin View Post
                I'd be interested to see a 1,000 watt fluorescent lamp...I've never heard of that.

                Also, doesn't spray paint tend to "blush" when applied under too much humidity?
                I really don't know what blushing is as I've not had much trouble. Occasionally I get orange peel if I recoat too soon or use incompatible paints/finishes, but If I apply on a cooler less humid day and then it sits in the hot garage and bakes on hotter more humid days I usually don't have problems. Sealing the material on a day that is also better for paint can also make applying in slightly higher humidity acceptable as the moisture is not in the material and also not in contact with the applied paint.

                Funny thing about what I'm working on...

                Since I used hardboard and applied a coat of glue and then sanded it when dried, I had already sealed the material. I did not have to apply primer on the Glue applied surfaces. It still looks fantastic like I had used primer.

                Later,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                  Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                  I really don't know what blushing is as I've not had much trouble. Occasionally I get orange peel if I recoat too soon or use incompatible paints/finishes, but If I apply on a cooler less humid day and then it sits in the hot garage and bakes on hotter more humid days I usually don't have problems. Sealing the material on a day that is also better for paint can also make applying in slightly higher humidity acceptable as the moisture is not in the material and also not in contact with the applied paint.

                  Funny thing about what I'm working on...

                  Since I used hardboard and applied a coat of glue and then sanded it when dried, I had already sealed the material. I did not have to apply primer on the Glue applied surfaces. It still looks fantastic like I had used primer.

                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  Way back when I worked at a car dealer the body shop tech would not spray paint anything on very humid days because it would "blush" --have a milky white film in or on the color. Maybe it is more of a problem with air compressor paint methods than rattle cans where dry air is compressed at the factory.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                    Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                    Ben,

                    My front door at my house faces the sun and I have a large full glass storm door on the outside. When I open my door it is so stinking hot in that little cavity that I can hardly touch the door to open or close it.

                    I think it would be possible to get a scrap of glass (from an old storm window, etc. and build a little box out of junky old plywood and paint it dark inside and out. Have the glass side facing the sun and let it bake for the hot part of a few days. I've thought about doing this several times, and may end up using the halogen bulb "heater" trick to cure the MDF in my current project.

                    I would think this would work pretty well for curing paint. I'd be awful nervous about having something wood in an oven. I once tried to bake a finish on a metal piece I made in our electric oven, and even on it's lowest setting, the paint got funny in a few areas. I would hate to see your beautiful speakers have a goofed up finish on them after all your hard work.

                    TomZ
                    that's just what I was thinking yesterday (though for a different material that needs "baking") my Dad drove truck for a little while in the late 80's and delivered the "Sun Oven" http://www.sunoven.com/ he bought one and we all though "that's not going to work" but it's the best food ever, easily gets up to over 350 deg. so a box with some plexi will get very warn/hot
                    David

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                      Blushing is most often a problem with lacquers, which were very common in auto repair shops until fairly recently. The solvents used and the quick drying nature combine to cause this "blushing". Shellac is much the same.
                      Modern urethanes are much less sensitive but are not immune.
                      Enamels are largely immune due to the different solvents and the slower drying.
                      There are formulations that cross boundaries and might seem to be less trouble but can still blush.

                      Yes, to some extent, canned spray paint is somewhat less trouble because the air in the can is very dry. But once the paint leaves the can the solvents will suck water from the air and substrate.
                      Air compressors can introduce huge amounts of moisture, and if not removed it poses all sorts of problems.

                      Originally posted by marvin View Post
                      Way back when I worked at a car dealer the body shop tech would not spray paint anything on very humid days because it would "blush" --have a milky white film in or on the color. Maybe it is more of a problem with air compressor paint methods than rattle cans where dry air is compressed at the factory.
                      ~99%
                      Make me an angel that flies from Montgomery
                      Make me a poster of an old rodeo
                      Just give me one thing that I can hold on to
                      To believe in this livin' is just a hard way to go

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                        Originally posted by bobbarkto View Post
                        Blushing is most often a problem with lacquers, which were very common in auto repair shops until fairly recently. The solvents used and the quick drying nature combine to cause this "blushing". Shellac is much the same.
                        Modern urethanes are much less sensitive but are not immune.
                        Enamels are largely immune due to the different solvents and the slower drying.
                        There are formulations that cross boundaries and might seem to be less trouble but can still blush.

                        Yes, to some extent, canned spray paint is somewhat less trouble because the air in the can is very dry. But once the paint leaves the can the solvents will suck water from the air and substrate.
                        Air compressors can introduce huge amounts of moisture, and if not removed it poses all sorts of problems.
                        Good info, Bob. We sure enjoy a broad panel of experts on this forum! And you're local, too

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                          Heh!
                          Yeah, more and more of us wind.. Windy City folks around here. Good for us!
                          Cubs or Sox, or don't care?
                          Your answer will be very telling to Chicagoans....:rolleyes:
                          ~99%
                          Make me an angel that flies from Montgomery
                          Make me a poster of an old rodeo
                          Just give me one thing that I can hold on to
                          To believe in this livin' is just a hard way to go

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                            If it's going to be hot, stick them in your car while it is parked in the sun...it won't be 200 degrees in there, but will be hot. Hotter than sitting outside.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                              Originally posted by bobbarkto View Post
                              Heh!
                              Yeah, more and more of us wind.. Windy City folks around here. Good for us!
                              Cubs or Sox, or don't care?
                              Your answer will be very telling to Chicagoans....:rolleyes:
                              I spend little time watching sports.....too interested in speakers and forums:p

                              I live south, but work all over Chicagoland.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Finishing Q's: Re: High-Heat Automotive Paints....

                                Good one! Nice escape!
                                ~99%
                                Make me an angel that flies from Montgomery
                                Make me a poster of an old rodeo
                                Just give me one thing that I can hold on to
                                To believe in this livin' is just a hard way to go

                                Comment

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