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In duality: Walkarounds for InDIYana and MWAF 2014....

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  • In duality: Walkarounds for InDIYana and MWAF 2014....

    Just wanted to preface and chronicle the monstrous group of projects that have been demoed and auditioned in the 2 big events since May 30/31.
    Just be patient. I will be posting them hopefully within the week.

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

  • #2
    InDIYana 2014

    First off- I want to thank everyone who attended, sponsored, competed, setup, MC'd, provided gear, etc. This was one of the largest turnouts we've had at InDIYana. Be advised these are my opinions, and are taken from within the confines of a hotel conference room.

    (My camera is being stupid, so I will add photos where necessary later that I didn't have from somewhere else!)

    Friday in it's typical laid back nature.... We flipped the room this year to see if it was any better than prior, and I think I liked it better as we had it before. The benefit is that you could enter in the rear of the room from the hotel lobby. Friday we actually had water leaking *ahem* POURING out of the ceiling close to the AC unit, and then again out of one of the can-lights nearby. You will see a spot against a wall with nothing there, that is because of this. The room sponsors were only charge one day instead of 2 for this reason- a nice surprise!
    (photo)

    Starting the perimeter from outside entry.....

    kanemack brought Pete/Rudy's 'Schumakubin MKII' in a silver tower. DA175/27TBFC was the original driver compliment, but this appears to have an RS28F in the picture. The few that heard them said they had a 'fuzzy' sound character to them. Apparently they played over lunch Saturday. You can see Mike220's 'Finalist' (RS225/NE149/RS28F) project on the floor with his Minion III sitting atop them. I thought the Finalists were decent, but didn't have as real of a midrange I would hope for, and the bass needed a little more extension. The Minion III needed wire-props to keep them on the stands, but other than being bass-shy as expected, sounded rather smooth.
    (photo)

    Kanemack also brought a set of Fusion 4 from DIYsoundgroup, and I felt they sounded okay, but would likely find them in a college dorm or kids room. cjd's 'Nebbiolo' had CA18/W4-1320/OW1 in a sultry high-gloss TMWW. These had an impressive realism capability that, IMO, was not matched at any other time over the weekend. Orchestra sounded phenomenal. Craig's 'Agendas', RS225/CAM558/RT1C-A 3-ways (naked) sounded very good to me. The bottom octave wasn't quite as resolved as I'd hope, but that could just be some cabinet/port adjustments. I'm certain they are capable, and I believe they were my second favorite of the show.
    (photo)

    There was a ton of stuff for sale in the rear of the room from several people, mostly from PEB and christianb.
    (photo)

    To the left side of the room.... dstmbgh brought his Fender reincarnate Sprite, and it played briefly in the rear of the room. Pretty cool finish on that one! Craig's 'Jonquils (RS150P/SB26) were very smooth, and despite using a hot track to voice, I feel they were not at all dull. John Hollander's 'NTM', though a tweeter let out the magic smoke, were very refined and sweet using an RS180P/RT1.3 and were a Ludicrosity entry until that happened. DanP's RS125/SinarBaja minis were quite nice, though the ports did chuff just a bit. I had my Stances on the table Friday since Mike220 requested them. I'll let others speak for their thoughts.
    (photo)

    There was another table there for the bookshelf speakers, that contained davepellegrene's ominous looking waveguided 3-ways, and a set of 'Blues' MTM and TM from mattsk8. Dave's were very well integrated, though I felt lacked some bass extension and punch tonally. The 'Blues' had a bit of a midrange peak in the middle for dialog integrity as they were designed for movies, but I liked the TM's a bit better.
    (photo)

    Bryan Keane set up the Docere MLTL and TM (Eclipse 6.5"/HDS) against the wall where others not tread dryly for Saturday without issue. I felt the MLTL had a really high group delay and the bass was not tracking well from driver to port. The upper midrange did also sound different than the TM version, which I preferred. Mattsk8 also brought a pending CSS kit, and I thought they sounded very bright and shouty; CSS drivers.
    (photo)

    Rory's PS180 MLTL's and Paul Carmody's 'Carrera' set off to the side on the floor. The Carrera is all you would expect them to be and more- high class design with 8530K00/OW1. The PS180 has some serious output when the filter was bypassed, but the filter definitely made them smooth and extended- even just a bit off-axis.
    (photo)

    Next up were JasonP's SaturnV (HDS-FG/TBFC) and Starfire (M8/100P/RS28F). While his finishing skills are of a personal nature, I applaud him for trying something different. The fiberglass HDS was very nice- first I'd heard it. I felt they needed just a bit more finesse in the xover, but were not bad. The Starfire were impressive, and I really liked the MT sector. The bass could have extended just a bit lower, and I hear he is changing that.
    (photo)

    dlneubec's 'Proximity' in Allison-effect and hickory glory, were an unusual addition, followed by the satellites in carbon fiber vinyl of the 4-axis over 2-axis method. Independently xover'd MTM sections along with varying attenuators produced a very diffuse but humongous soundstage, with the vocalist never changing position
    no matter the listener's position- a very cool effect. SB mid/tweeter, and Aura NS10 woofers. DanP had his Ludicrosity entry in a hexagonal cabinet with the SB26 and SB15 midbass. They blended very well- Nice job. Chuck's 'Amonicos' (Eclipse 6.5"/SB26- very popular tweeter this year...) had a very likable tonal balance in his cylindrical Ludicrosity endeavor. Very nice job for really his second time start to finish on a xover design. I really liked these! The little Eton Symphony/Seas DXT ('Corellias') jobbies were shipped in from Idaho by Todd England. These, IMO, were one of the best bookshelves there. Imaging and clarity were incredible. Thank you for letting us hear them!
    George's 'Exponents' (8137/W4-1757S/RT003C) are also in there in maple/cherry veneer. Wonderful speaker from top to bottom.
    (photo)

    PaulK appeased my request for something a bit different in terms of fit/finish with his Brilliante (RS180/SB26 {AGAIN!}), and they did not disappoint. I liked what I heard and saw. Meniscus brought a little pending kit, Caritas, with SB OEM's, and it was also well executed. My Ludicrosity entry 'Fenghuang' appeared naked with Airborne FR151/RT-4101 in a curvy statement. I'll let others comment. Bill Schwefel (4thtry) brought a Raaliwedged Neo8 paired with dual W6-1139SIF woofers. This surprisingly did work and met in the middle, but I felt it lacked a bit of weight in the vocal range. Neat nonetheless they were. JeffB had his 'Testarossa's', a pending kit with RAAL/Satori and an SB PR. Finished in bird's-eye baffles, the premise was to invert the room signature in the box model to smooth out the bass extension. I will say the bass was very smooth, but different than what I am used to hearing. I'm not really certain if I liked or disliked these to be honest. I wouldn't call them an acquired taste, but different than I expected.
    (photo)

    Shawn A tucked his pseudo-Arpeggios under the gear table when not in use, and he had swapped in the 9970 (metal dome) Ushers for the normal 9950's. Being it was a driver swap, I thought they sounded okay, but not as refined as with the 9950.
    (photo)

    I'd like to formally congratulate JeffB for winning the Ludicrosity challenge with his 'Tributes'; a second order homage to Bud Fried. There really was no comparison to this work of masochism in the contest. SB17/SB26 used with a xover of matching value HP and LP components. Nicely done! We had 5 entries total in the challenge, 1 forfeited.
    (photo)

    BTW- pknaz brought a set of Paradigm monitors. We played them just to compare, and I thought they were just overly dull. Nothing wrong, just dull, FWIW.

    I'll update with photos later. Thanks for all who came, saw, heard, conquered, and enjoyed! I hope to see you next year,
    Thanks to all,
    Wolf
    Last edited by Wolf; 07-30-2014, 02:56 AM. Reason: Writeup....
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      Mwaf 2014

      And away we go!

      Thanks to PE, the contestants, and all who were involved in the Speaker Design competition and the TentSale. It was a fun event, and well timed.
      Starting from the entrance at the rear of the room.........

      Adam Malito had his 'Parabolicas' on the corner in front of Karl at the laptop, consisting of Peerless/Vifa drivers in a carbon fiber vinyl treatment. (not pictured)

      Eric Perez's 'Pipe' used the ND91/XT25SC90 in a slender amplified boomtube. Using it's intended location of source to the floor, the sound was not terrible tonally, but I felt it had too much sizzle from the tweeters indicating a xover that was likely too low.


      My Fenghuang, finished in R-leum Midnight Blue and VHT Burnt Copper, tilted with coat hooks as feet, and consisting of Airborne FR151 and RT4101 drivers; looked very nice and sounded very nice until they were not allowed to keep their own composure.


      John Hollander's 'Seriatim' (RS180P/RT1.3) looked and sounded fantastic. 1st place <$200. Chuck's 'Armonicos' (Eclipse 6.5"/SB26) had 3rd in >$200, and finished much nicer than at InDIYana.

      Next to the Armonicos is a set of quasi-Plutos 'Elmo' (Peerless830656/Whisper 2") by J. Plugge, and besides feeling sick and puking polyfill, they sounded quite nice. I was expecting less, and the ports did not unload and chuff being so small. DanP's 'Mayaphines' (SB15/XT25) were a new design formerly a Ludicrosity entry cab. Aborted SXO and back to parallel, they were pleasant. I preferred the former of the same though. Tony Hartman's 3 of 4 entries finish off the table. I really found all of his bookshelves this year lacking in comparison to past entries, as they all had a boxy coloration or disjoined xover. He's done better before.

      Dan's 'Proximity' (AuraNS10/SB15/SB26) took third in Unlim, and had the same soundstage as at InDIYana. Difvision's 'Model One' (6.8/RT002) took 2nd in >$200 and I felt they had a bit of honk in the lower treble. For the drivers used, they were likely the best they could be, and at the limits of their respective ranges. Not bad. The Speedster MLTL Jim Griffin brought unloaded in the large room on the bass tracks, just like any 4" in a large cab will do when hit with some decent power. Speedster still equals great, but If you want higher output potential, the smaller cab is beneficial, IMO. Jim also brought some ATC planars along with his contiguous open-box Kappalite12". These seemed to fall short in blend, and were a little thin on the bottom.

      Bogdan's 'Piccolo' (RS100P/RS28-rear) sounded cupped and boxy/overly-resonant. No fill, too thick baffles likely contributed. Kipka's 'Notes' (NE225/W4-1320/XT25) took first in Unlim, and were really well constructed to clone an SF Ellipsa. I felt the blend from woofer to mid was a bit too warm and maybe the woofer was playing a bit too high. Very nice nonetheless. Norman Cerveny brought his 'Renditions', placing 2nd in Unlim. The cobalt blue looked great, and the midbass had the right weight to it where most did not in the category.


      Eric's '442' (RS270x2/AMT-pro/amt-mini) had impact out the wazzoo, and the aesthetic was very neat and different, placing 2nd in Dayton. bigfishe's 'Lyndzies' (TD10/75-1558/LD25X) were gorgeously painted, but the top-end just sounded dead to me.


      Meredith's 'SNECCS' consisted of several sub towers that nested for transport, and minimized the room nodes in terms of bass response. He also had Neo8's on Aerogel Audaxes in the 'monitor speakers'. This in its chaos actually sounded very good, despite its looks, and was very well thought out. Bill Whetstone's 'Sweet dB's' consisted of a SS discovery woofer and an Eton tweeter. These were very smooth, and would likely make jazz sound very good. Bill Schwefel's 'PlanTanic' were a bit thin on the bottom end, but otherwise didn't really do anything wrong. I didn't feel they were quite 'there', in terms of integration.


      M. Giampouranis 'Mark Audio Bipolars' reflected on Jim Griffin's FR/WR125 project from about 2006. Not bad. Paul K's 'Brilliante' (RS180/SB26) placed 3rd in <$200, and looked good doing it. See my thoughts above in InDIYana comments. Tony Hartman's 'Tubesaurus' (not pictured) paired with the coffee-table sub (pictured) had some imbalance and didn't dig very deep. W Wickware's 'SB Pipe' (SB15/MDT12) sounded very good for the cost. George's 'Exponents' (8137/W4-1757/RT003C) took 1st in >$200 and was justly deserved. Fantastic design.


      M Grant's 'Nexus' towers (DS210/DS140/ND28) had good integration and decent bass, but weren't all that detailed. Smooth and benign took 3rd in Dayton. Zarbo's 'Curves' tucked to the left of them did well I thought. Hollander's 'Aperivox' took 1st in Dayton, and had a slight softness to the analytical system to where they sounded quite sweet. Punksweeper and his Pop brought the PS220 in a vented floor cab. ON-AXIS, these did quite well at the glinting and tinkling top-end. Off-axis, forget it! Nicely done.


      C Home's 'Space Capsules' (Dayton15"/SF17/RT1L) just sounded 'off' to me. Xover integration is not something they did well, and the bass extension was absent. Colorations abound. Chuck's 'Nathan+' (DS210/DS115/TC6) were okay. A bit dead on top, but took power and bass was pleasant.


      Tom Bond's ND91/ND16 sounded decent for the small form factor, and the woodwork was pretty as usual. M. Turcotte brought a fully amplified 2.1, and that looked and sounded quite nice. Classy white. Julian Franke's 'Tres Passion' (831375/DS115/Goldwood) took 2nd <$200, and I felt there was some coloration in the bass, and the integration was questionable.


      M. Turcotte brought a set of MTM's (SF125/RT4001) that didn't sound half bad, and the vinyl and wood contrast was pretty cool. Eric Levenchuck brought the 'Blue Lobsters', with buyout 5" mids, ND25, and a 15" in an aperiodic box. As usual- this sounded quite decent, though I did question the 15" in that TINY box.


      There ya have it!
      Wolf
      Last edited by Wolf; 08-03-2014, 02:52 AM.
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: In duality: Walkarounds for InDIYana and MWAF 2014....

        . Hmb

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: In duality: Walkarounds for InDIYana and MWAF 2014....

          While we're all waiting...



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
          Last edited by RoryB@daytonaudio.com; 07-29-2014, 12:34 PM.
          Best Regards,

          Rory Buszka
          Product Manager, Dayton Audio

          The best way to predict the future is to create it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: In duality: Walkarounds for InDIYana and MWAF 2014....

            Yay content!
            Last edited by JasonP; 07-30-2014, 09:32 AM.
            Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
            Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: InDIYana 2014

              Updated, lacking pics for the moment....
              Wolf
              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

              *InDIYana event website*

              Photobucket pages:
              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: InDIYana 2014

                It's nice to hear an honest opinion. No one likes to have their design slated but you'll only improve if people are honest about the faults.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: InDIYana 2014

                  Thanks for doing this Ben, it helps me keep my thoughts in line from the event. You said others should comment on your Fenghuang and the Stance, so I will for a moment.

                  I liked what the curved baffled was doing for the
                  Fenghuang, but I couldn't rise above my dislike for that Airborne woofer. It just sounded muddy to me in the lower midrange, kind of veiled or something.

                  The Stance on the other hand was awesome, it totally deserves the kit form it has taken on. I'm loved it, it just sounded clean and open.

                  In regards to my two offerings: The Jupiter V (five), not the SaturnV(v), and Starfire, thanks for the comments. I agree that the Jupiter just never came together perfectly, through no fault of the drivers but baffle and XO. I am not sure I am going back to address that at all. That said the Peerless 6.5" GFC is a nice driver.

                  The Starfire is headed for a final XO in its current form, with a suggestion to change the tuning of the enclosure lower. Eventually I'm looking at doing a sealed version (Starfire II perhaps?) with the Peerless
                  830667 8" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofer, which looks nice sealed in the same box size. I'll post up a final build detail for the Starfire soon.
                  Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
                  Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: InDIYana 2014

                    Thanks for putting on a great event and for this write up Ben. I appreciate your comments on my two entries as I value your experience, ears, and opinions.
                    Craig

                    The lowest possible F3 box alignment is not always the best alignment.

                    Designing and building speaker projects are like playing with adult Lego Blocks for me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: InDIYana 2014

                      Nice write up Wolf. I didn't get to hear everyones builds so the comparisons you posted were nice.
                      My Build Thread's
                      Carrera's / Finalist TL's / Speedster TMM's / Speedster MTM Center / Overnight Sensation Surrounds

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: InDIYana 2014

                        To be totally honest, guys, these take upwards of 2 hrs to write, link photos, and explain in detail. Lately I've been building instead of posting as much. I like leaving a good synopsis of the event when it's over, or there are many unanswered Q's.

                        Thanks for the returned comments,
                        Wolf
                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: InDIYana 2014

                          Meniscus brought a little pending kit, Caritas, with SB OEM's, and it was also well executed.
                          Ben,

                          That's funny, I guess it's because I didn't make it there until Saturday, but I didn't know that the Caritas were even there until now. This is one of my designs and I didn't even know it was there. That's kinda amusing. I'm glad you liked it.

                          Regarding the Testarossas, I wanted to give an update - As you are aware I built that pair on Friday and listened about 15 minutes before packing them up to bring on Saturday. Since then I have made a couple adjustments to the crossover to improve the lower midrange balance a bit, which I find a bit more pleasing to my ear, with midrange more like the Kairos.

                          As for the bass alignment - this speaker will be offered with conventional sealed, vented, and MLTL options, as well as the low-tuned passive radiator system I demo'ed at InDIYana. I'd like you to hear these sometime in my family room, which is a lot smaller than the conference room, and experience just how deep and clean the bass is in a typical listening room. I think you would be impressed.

                          Jeff
                          Last edited by Jeff B.; 07-31-2014, 05:50 AM.
                          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: InDIYana 2014

                            Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                            Ben,

                            That's funny, I guess it's because I didn't make it there until Saturday, but I didn't know that the Caritas were even there until now. This one of my designs and I didn't even know it was there. That's kinda amusing. I'm glad you liked it.
                            They were the little reddish-brown cabs that had a bit of stripe to them. We also played them Saturday morning early.

                            I would like to hear the 'Rossas at your place sometime. Part of me wants a more on-on-one experience with the RAALs to find out if I really do like them or not. Thus far, I'm on the fence.

                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                            *InDIYana event website*

                            Photobucket pages:
                            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mwaf 2014

                              Updated MWAF!
                              Wolf
                              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                              *InDIYana event website*

                              Photobucket pages:
                              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                              Comment

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