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Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

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  • Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

    I completed the initial design for these speakers some time ago, but didn't put up the info for various reasons, one of them being I continued to tweak the Madisons and the Jeffreys weren't around anymore in their original form so I kind of forgot.

    I'm not good with build threads since my builds tend to span across months if not over a year due to lack of contiguous time to dedicated to building and voicing. Instead, I tend to just show the finished design and the info. If anyone has any particular questions, please feel free to ask.

    Madison-D and Madison-R
    First off, the Madisons. This stemmed from my interested in the amazing W4-1720 woofer after building a pair of Speedsters. I don't think another 4in woofer exist that does everything so well across the board as this little Tang Band, from reach way down low for true full sound on most music to being clean in the midrange and smooth up top for easy integration. I wanted to combine the W4-1720 with more cost friendly tweeters while not giving up the great sound of the Speedsters. I saw the Beston RT003Cs and thought that's a really nice looking planar tweeter, small and round (both traits I like in a tweeter) and shouldn't have the narrow sweet spot suffered by most ribbons. I also had some BC25SC06 tweeters sitting around already and thought it'd be nice to make an even more cost effective version also. So the Madisons were born with 2 versions: the Madison-D sports the BC25SC06 silk Dome while the Madison-R has one of my favorite tweeters, the RT003C planar Ribbon. I purposely designed the crossovers for both to share much of their components so one could upgrade or swap between the the designs easily. I made my cabs with a removable baffle that I could swap out to change tweeters while also changing a few components on the crossovers.

    Between the 2, I definitely prefer the RT003C version. The highs are "airier" with decay much more natural. It has the same great low end and midrange as the Speedsters, but with more pronounced upper midrange as the tweeter crosses much lower than the NeoCD1.0 of the Speedsters (~3kHz vs. ~4.5kHz). Not too forward, but not too warm...very balanced to me, which is what I prefer. The roll off past 12kHz or so on the RT003C is a mic problem. I definitely don't hear that. It extends well beyond that (and my hearing is still good to the upper frequencies).

    Below are pics of both versions (sorry, I don't know how to put the attachments in the text itself to properly order them), along with the crossover schematics, frequency response and phase alignment. Not shown in the crossover schematic for the Dome version is a parallel shallow notch to address a hump in the BC25SC06's response that can be seen in the FR plot. This was added later. The notch consists of L=0.1mH, C=2uF, R=5ohms.
    The cabinet is the same size as the Speedsters at 6W x 10H x 8.5D using 0.5in MDF (~5.5L). Woofer is in the same location also at 6.5in from top. Both dome and ribbon tweeters have their center located 1.5in above the woofer frame. Fb is ~55Hz with an F3 ~45Hz using a 1-3/8in PE adjustable port at 6.5in long.

    EDIT: I also have Madison-R MTM in an 11L cabinet, 6W x 16H x 10D for 11L using 0.5in MDF. Fb ~54Hz with a 2in x 6in port. Impedance does dip to 3ohm for a short span, but it's mostly resistive at that point (minimal phase angle), so any 4-ohm rated amp should handle this fine (and decent 8-ohm amps too). More sensitivity and power handling and better for watching movies with.

    Jeffrey
    Next up are the Jeffreys. It uses the same RT003C tweeter (did I mention I love this little guy?), but with the W4-1720's bigger brother, the W5-704D. This was an interesting woofer I wanted to try. Seemed to do everything really well...controlled FR, very low distortion, decent low end extension and so forth. Plus, I tend to like poly cone sound so I wanted to give it a try. I mentioned above that the Jeffrey is no longer in it's original form and you can probably see in the picture that it's not in a small TM cab since there's a hint of a driver below the tweeter. I actually built the TM Jeffrey inside a tower. The upper portion was sealed off making it essentially a TM on stands. While it's a MT configuration in my pic, the design axis is still the tweeter and I voiced it with the tweeter at ear level. The response plot has a merged simulated ported response since my actual setup was sealed. The speaker is now a 3-way tower with 2 woofers below (though that's undergoing a redesign also and the original woofers have been sold and I'm just waiting for some different ones to arrive).

    As with the Madisons, below are pics of the Jeffrey with the crossover schematics, frequency response and phase alignment. Again, that drop in the high frequency is the mic.
    The ported cabinet is ~10L 7W x 12H x 11D using 0.6in MDF for 10L volume (I know, weird thickness MDF...you can use 0.5in and just make the depth a bit less or 0.75in and make the depth a bit more). Woofer should be ~7in from top of cabinet with the tweeter center 1.5in above the woofer frame. Mine had a bit of overlap because that's how the driver cutouts were already done, but it won't make any difference. Fb is ~50Hz with an F3 ~55Hz using a 1-3/8in PE adjustable port at 3.5in long or a 2in port that's 8in long.

    Between the Madison and Jeffrey, I prefer the Jeffrey's midrange as like I mentioned, I like poly cones. It has a more involving midrange where both male and female vocals draw me in more to the music. But both are what I'd call balanced in their voicing...again, not warm, not forward...just the way I like it.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

    Thanks for looking.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by jsr; 09-18-2014, 09:18 AM.
    Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
    Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
    Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
    Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
    Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

  • #2
    Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

    Here's the Jeffrey design.

    Also added the Madison MTM using the RT003C. Drivers are spaced apart the same as the Madison-R, just with another woofer on the other side of the tweeter.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by jsr; 09-18-2014, 09:11 AM.
    Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
    Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
    Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
    Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
    Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

      Quite cool, it seems my sims with the w4-1720 are not that bad
      My Statement monitors
      My Piccolatas
      My LM3886 amp

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

        I love the fact that you named a speaker after me. Thanks.

        Jeff B.
        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

          Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
          I love the fact that you named a speaker after me. Thanks.

          Jeff B.
          I believe he named his son after you.
          Sausage With Meat Sause, Please

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

            Originally posted by Beau View Post
            I believe he named his son after you.
            Now I'm really honored ;):D
            Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

              Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
              Now I'm really honored ;):D
              That's how much I love you man! Did I mention hid middle name is Bagby?:eek::D


              Reminds me, I should post up the Madison MTM info. MTM going up tomorrow.
              Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
              Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
              Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
              Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
              Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                Originally posted by jsr View Post
                That's how much I love you man! Did I mention hid middle name is Bagby?:eek::D


                Reminds me, I should post up the Madison MTM info. MTM going up tomorrow.
                You know Johnny,

                One way to show love is to buy subwoofers.

                Now - coincidentally - Jeff has some terrific subs for sale, and it seems to me ......
                Sausage With Meat Sause, Please

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                  Ooh that gets me a couple of BFFs then!
                  Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                  Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                  Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                  Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                  Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                    Added the Madison MTM design also.
                    Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                    Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                    Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                    Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                    Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                      I share your sentiments about the TB woofer. These are some really cool designs! I've actually been waiting to see if you'd share these in a forum post. I saw your signature and wondered why the Jeffreys pointed to a family website :D

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                        How would you compare the Jeffrey to your Jasmine? I realize the NeoCD3.0 is a lot more than the RT003C.

                        Thanks....
                        "Everything is nothing without a high sound quality." (Sure Electronics)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                          Fantastic Build and post.

                          Was waiting for this one for months!

                          Seems I may be building one or the other, as I have some time to do so.

                          Between the smaller and larger woofers, how would you describe the difference in bass extension etc, and how much does the notch filter remove, and at what frequency for the BC25 dome?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                            ernperkins,
                            The Fountek in the Jasmines is nicer in the top end. The decay of cymbals was great on the Jasmines. Overall top octave is more lifelike with the Fountek. Having said that, the Beston is very close. I'm working on another design that uses the FW146 with the Beston and I think I actually prefer the upper midrange of this combo better than with the Fountek CD3.0. It seems to have more body. I think the Beston offers much of the performance for a fraction of the price. BUT, I do have another design in the works using a true ribbon again because I miss that little bit extra that amazes me with a true ribbon.

                            Kevin,
                            Thanks man! The Madison digs deeper and I rarely need a sub for most music. The Jeffrey is missing the authority with that very bottom info, but it seems a bit punchier in the bass that it does provide. The notch drops about 3dB centered about 12kHz. It's a broad notch starting around 8kHz to about 16kHz or so. Just tames some sibilance at high volumes.
                            Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                            Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                            Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                            Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                            Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Introducing: The Madisons and Jeffreys

                              jsr, you mentioned working on a project using the Fountek FW146 and the Beston RT003, did you ever finish it? Also, have you compared the RT003 to the RT002 at all?
                              thanks,
                              nikkoluvr

                              Comment

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