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  • #16
    Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

    Did you get some kind of preview of the XMC-1? I say that since you can't buy one yet.

    I will say that I'm super happy w/ the DC-1.


    Originally posted by scottq View Post
    The old Sherbourn unit was actually more closely related to the UMC-1. The UMC-200 was a reboot and redesign from lessons learned on those units. The Fusion 8100 basically combined the UMC-200 and the UPA-700 - hence, "Fusion." Sorta. As mentioned, there's a smaller power supply (that's big $$ savings). Also, it's one less case/chassis (also big $$ savings). And the majority of development was already done from the UMC-200, so there wasn't much overhead necessary to create the Fusion. I have a feeling they may have reduced cost a few other places (e.g. downgrading opamps) - all conjecture though...

    I have the UMC-200 and am super happy with it. It clearly bested my Outlaw 950 in sound quality, which surprised me - I was expecting it to be roughly the same.
    That said, the XMC-1 blows it out of the water... but at ~3.5x the price. Is the XMC-1 worth it? Yes. The XMC-1 is good enough for a really high end 2-channel setup; so, you don't "need" a separate 2-channel setup, kill 2 birds with one sweet pre/pro. Despite using a totally different DAC, the XMC-1 comes down to incredibly small minutia of differences when compared to the Stealth DC-1's performance... and that's saying something.

    As mentioned, for audio performance, the Fusion 8100 is gonna best other AVRs up to 4x its price. Bells and whistles, it doesn't have much.
    I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
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    • #17
      Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

      Originally posted by fastbike1 View Post
      Did you get some kind of preview of the XMC-1? I say that since you can't buy one yet.

      I will say that I'm super happy w/ the DC-1.
      Yeah you can, sort of. Current production lacks the units only serious competitive advantage - Dirac - but it's available for purchase and current units will allegedly someday be upgraded to include Dirac.
      --
      "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

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      • #18
        Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

        Originally posted by fastbike1 View Post
        Did you get some kind of preview of the XMC-1? I say that since you can't buy one yet.

        I will say that I'm super happy w/ the DC-1.
        Yes, my best friend has one (he was on "the list" for preorder years ago - they have been shipping the pre-orders for a few months). I would love to order one, but it's not in the budget quite yet - gonna have to save up for a year or two...
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        • #19
          Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

          Originally posted by Pallas View Post
          Yeah you can, sort of. Current production lacks the units only serious competitive advantage - Dirac - but it's available for purchase and current units will allegedly someday be upgraded to include Dirac.
          There's nothing "alleged" about it - XMC-1 is ready for it, tested and confirmed functionality with the latest Dirac software. The problem is on Dirac's end - the issue is the connection to the Dirac servers. The algorithm is programmed and ready for the XMC-1, but the "magical" values that determine how it functions have to be obtained from Dirac's servers. Dirac won't allow that code to leave their possession. So, after measurements are taken from with your XMC-1 setup, the measurement data gets uploaded to their servers, computed, and sent back to you with the correct values to use in the XMC-1's programming. The XMC-1 just needs the "magic values" to input into the algorithms.

          The issue Dirac is having is related to how they're going to handle the information/interface for this data coming and going. I'm not exactly sure, but I surmise that it's related to bandwidth issues on their end. The XMC-1 sales are going to create a major influx - it's the first "major" commercial product of large scale that will have Dirac functionality. So, I think they're trying to figure out how to best work this interface and support it with enough hardware.

          In the end, I think Dirac needs to loosen up the death grip on their software; I understand they want to protect it - totally get that and totally support protecting it. But, the death grip could end up crippling their sales and market share of the principle technology. If they don't loosen their grip (with appropriate measures of protection, licensing, patents, intellectual property, etc.), another a company like Dolby that could finance it, or Lake DSP that has the technical prowess may "copy" (recreate) the functionality and run with it. If those other companies make it easier for OEMs to integrate it, Dirac could end up losing a lot of sales and market share; they could become their own worst enemy... and lose out cornering the market. Just my $0.02.
          SEC DIY 2014 Speaker Show is on! *November 8th*
          Wanna win a set of Newform Research R30 ribbons?!?!
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          • #20
            Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

            Originally posted by scottq View Post
            There's nothing "alleged" about it
            It's an alleged future upgrade until it actually happens. Remember, it was supposed to happen 60-days after the crippled XMC-1 was released. I got that email. IOW, Dirac should've been available by mid-September. Now it's about 90 days after the crippled XMC-1 was released, and they're still telling people Dirac is 60 days out...

            The most important question when given a date about any aspect of the XMC-1 has always been "what year?" Since, what, 2008?

            Originally posted by scottq View Post
            ***The problem is on Dirac's end - the issue is the connection to the Dirac servers.
            That was the speculation when miniDSP delayed shipment of their nanoAVR DL box, which seems to have the same Dirac software as the alleged future $100 "full Dirac" upgrade that the Lonnie told us they'd offer at the Emo-ATL show. Emo's network claims were always self-evident nonsense, proven by the fact that they managed in fact to have Dirac running on a computer in their 2-channel room during Emo-ATL.

            Originally posted by scottq View Post
            The issue Dirac is having is related to how they're going to handle the information/interface for this data coming and going. I'm not exactly sure, but I surmise that it's related to bandwidth issues on their end.
            Yes, that's the current Emotiva line. One of many that they've thrown out during this whole process.

            Given that miniDSP is shipping nanoAVR DL boxes now I simply don't buy it.
            --
            "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

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            • #21
              Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

              Originally posted by Pallas View Post
              It's an alleged future upgrade until it actually happens. Remember, it was supposed to happen 60-days after the crippled XMC-1 was released. I got that email. IOW, Dirac should've been available by mid-September. Now it's about 90 days after the crippled XMC-1 was released, and they're still telling people Dirac is 60 days out...
              I think you missed the small print. Mid-Sept 2015
              Don't waste your money on a new set of speakers, you get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers. Next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways it's still rock and roll to me!

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              • #22
                Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

                I own a Fusion 8100 and could not be happier with it. I use jRiver and the bluetooth to stream from my computer. I use it 80% for music , 20% for video. With two channel stereo it puts out 110 watts per channel and sounds much better than a mid price Denon it replaced. I had a new Pioneer Elite $700 unit that I returned because of the sound quality I did not like that was rated at 90 watts per channel and the Fusion not only sounded better, but plays louder with out straining. I have not had any HDMI handshake issues, but does switch slower than the pioneer and Denon.

                On the down side I am not thrilled with the remote layout. The unit looks very plain from the front, but the back has all the inputs and outputs you could want. The OSD layout could be better organized. I believe for $500 it is a good buy. Emotiva also has an easy return policy so if you don't like the product you can send it back.
                Office System: Core 2 DIY Speaker, Primaluna Prologue One Tube Amp, Rega P1 turntable, Ortofon M2 phono cartridge, Marantz cd5005. Family Room: Tango, Monoprice 50w tube amp, Sony Bdp-6500 Blu Ray player, Denon DVD-1930 SACD, Direct TV HD , Samsung 55 inch 4k tv. Man Cave: Jasmine Redux, Emotiva XSP-1 preamp, XDA 2 dac, Sherbourn cd-1, xpa-200 amp, music hall 5.0 turntable, Ortofon 2m Blue cartridge. Fusion 8100, Overnight Sensations, Polk CS2 center channel, Sony BDP-S6500

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                • #23
                  Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

                  Originally posted by scottq View Post
                  There's nothing "alleged" about it - XMC-1 is ready for it, tested and confirmed functionality with the latest Dirac software. The problem is on Dirac's end - the issue is the connection to the Dirac servers. The algorithm is programmed and ready for the XMC-1, but the "magical" values that determine how it functions have to be obtained from Dirac's servers. Dirac won't allow that code to leave their possession. So, after measurements are taken from with your XMC-1 setup, the measurement data gets uploaded to their servers, computed, and sent back to you with the correct values to use in the XMC-1's programming. The XMC-1 just needs the "magic values" to input into the algorithms.
                  Wow, that sounds like a Charlie-Foxtrot. One possible interpretation is that Dirac needs to develop a web interface with a production server that a) has to validate the user / record, and b) has to calculate the DSP coefficients and send them back, either directly to the XMC-1 or some sort of file that needs to be installed by the user. And I doubt Dirac has a heavy IT shop. Have they ever done this before? Unless they are contractually obligated to Emotiva to do this ASAP, this could take anywhere from several weeks to forever.

                  If I had purchased an XMC-1 with the expectation of having an operational Dirac, I would view this as potentially very bad news, but maybe this isn't as grave as it sounds. If it were me, I'd return it until such date that the Dirac functionality is actually shipping.

                  Regards,

                  Rob
                  If I had purchased an XMC-1 with the expectation of having an operational Dirac, I would consider this to be very bad news.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

                    Originally posted by weinstro View Post
                    Wow, that sounds like a Charlie-Foxtrot. One possible interpretation is that Dirac needs to develop a web interface with a production server that a) has to validate the user / record, and b) has to calculate the DSP coefficients and send them back, either directly to the XMC-1 or some sort of file that needs to be installed by the user.
                    This is how Dirac operates today with the software and miniDSP devices. There is no need to build anything on their end, they already have the web front/back end to support the masses.

                    I tend to agree with Pallas. If Dirac works just fine on limited bandwidth in software form on HTPCs and the miniDSP hardware, I find it hard to believe that Emotiva can blame Dirac for the current delay.

                    I WANT it to work, the XMC-1 looks brilliant on paper since my HT doubles as one of my 2-channel setups and Dirac is simply the best. But I gave up my place in line...if I am dropping that kind of $$$ it had better be perfect.
                    Last edited by Architect7; 10-19-2014, 06:33 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Emotiva 8100 AVR? Good?

                      Originally posted by Architect7 View Post
                      This is how Dirac operates today with the software and miniDSP devices. There is no need to build anything on their end, they already have the web front/back end to support the masses.

                      I tend to agree with Pallas. If Dirac works just fine on limited bandwidth in software form on HTPCs and the miniDSP hardware, I find it hard to believe that Emotiva can blame Dirac for the current delay.

                      I WANT it to work, the XMC-1 looks brilliant on paper since my HT doubles as one of my 2-channel setups and Dirac is simply the best. But I gave up my place in line...if I am dropping that kind of $$$ it had better be perfect.
                      Yeah, for sure, Dirac has been doing it for a while with success through their website to other OEMs. I got the impression it was bandwidth-related problems for supporting Emotiva and the exchange issues with having to manually upload the variables to the XMC-1 via USB stick. This may have nothing (or little) to do with the real reason for the delays. Let's face it, it's all conjecture at this point.

                      Given the fact that it has been demonstrated to be functional on the XMC-1 (and the statement below), I'm not sure why people are concerned if the XMC-1 is able to do the processing. I totally understand wanting to make sure its there and shipping with it before purchasing... $2000 is a lot of cake. My "there's nothing 'alleged' about it..." statement is a bit far reaching. I realize nothing's for sure until its real.

                      The silver lining for the owners is this statement from Emotiva in the update:
                      "Since Dirac isn’t quite ready, if you purchase your XMC-1 now, of course we’ll extend your 30-day trial period until 30 days after we send you the Dirac update."

                      By this, if they don't ever deliver Dirac, return it for a full refund when you get sick of waiting. Of course, nobody really knows until the update is sent. But, this is a pretty fair offer that should certainly relieve most concern.

                      Anyway...
                      SEC DIY 2014 Speaker Show is on! *November 8th*
                      Wanna win a set of Newform Research R30 ribbons?!?!
                      SEC DIY 2014 Thread

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