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  • Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

    I am falling victim to the "loud/low/small, pick two and forget the other" rule.

    I'm trying to design a pair of micro desktop speakers, and would like to stay around .05 ft3, but still get respectable bass extension considering the size as I'm not running a sub. I'm looking at a single Dayton 2.5" Neo per cab http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...8-ohm--290-206, but after some BSC, it looks like I am limited to about 87db of output at RMS power, 90 peak..

    Is anybody out there aware of a more sensitive driver that still fits the bill? Or for nearfield computer listening am I perhaps likely to be satisfied with this output level for average normal listening?


    Thanks
    Projects:

    transcenD: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...5035-transcend
    Summits: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...75-The-Summits
    References: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-My-References
    Vintage Style 2-way: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-vintage-2-way

  • #2
    Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

    There's a reason you always see tiny sats with a sub. Best to shoot for extension to just below 100hz and add a micro sub.
    http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

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    • #3
      Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

      You won't do better than the ND-65 for that enclosure size and bass extension. If you want more SPL and no sub, your best bet would be to move up to the ND-90 and increase enclosure size or use bass boost.
      Melby Audio - Flat Pack Speaker Kits

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      • #4
        Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

        Originally posted by dynamo View Post
        Is anybody out there aware of a more sensitive driver that still fits the bill?
        Sensitivity isn't the limiting factor, displacement is. Maximum SPL at 70-80Hz isn't 87dB, it's 84dB, because that's all that the 5cc displacement (Vd) will allow. A pair would get you up to 90dB, which should be plenty for nearfield listening, and two will still fit into a small box.
        www.billfitzmaurice.com
        www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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        • #5
          Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

          I am constantly obsessed with building a tiny desktop computer speaker. Very curious to see feedback in this thread.

          My recent work to build a vented design using the PS95s turned into a debacle... resulting in some disappointing realizations regarding cabinet size. I recently started modeling them in a sealed box to see how small I could go. I hadn't tried anything as small as 0.05ft3 until seeing your post. Below is the MaxSPL plot for the PS95 vs the ND65 in about 0.05 sealed. The ND65 plays lower but the PS95 seems to have an SPL advantage. There is slightly more than a 1dB hump in the PS95 curve in such a small box.

          Click image for larger version

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          Looking forward to more discussion on the topic

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          • #6
            Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

            I think that's about as small and low as it currently gets. It'll be hard to beat the ND series (AURA-like) on total output (for teeny drivers) due to the generous X-max they have.

            I'm working on one of those right now, vented, w/a 7" long cardboard tube I found that's got an ID of 15/16".

            My DATS measured T/S: Qes 0.54, Qms 5.3, Qts 0.49, Vas 0.02cf, Fs 104, Re 7.4, Le 1.0, SPL 82dB, Sd 2.42 sq.in.

            While it won't go as low as the published specs, I'm still lookin' at 65Hz or so.

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            • #7
              Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

              Originally posted by lowpolyjoe View Post
              I am constantly obsessed with building a tiny desktop computer speaker. Very curious to see feedback in this thread.

              My recent work to build a vented design using the PS95s turned into a debacle... resulting in some disappointing realizations regarding cabinet size. I recently started modeling them in a sealed box to see how small I could go. I hadn't tried anything as small as 0.05ft3 until seeing your post. Below is the MaxSPL plot for the PS95 vs the ND65 in about 0.05 sealed. The ND65 plays lower but the PS95 seems to have an SPL advantage. There is slightly more than a 1dB hump in the PS95 curve in such a small box.

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]52431[/ATTACH]

              Looking forward to more discussion on the topic

              I run a set of PS95s in a .105 cuft box with 1" port at 2-1/8" long. With about half the box lightly stuffed with Acoustistuff it is a pretty clean little driver out of the box straight into the box driver. They are powered by a Sure 2x8w amp. That being said they would benefit from a separate sub. I have been researching what driver might be a good fit for the 95s. That is future project #5 in a long line of them.
              "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

              The Madeleine
              The Roxster
              Swopes 5.0
              Acoustic Panels
              Living Room Make Over

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              • #8
                Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                ND-91 is a good compromise for a small box ported or mini TL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                  Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                  Sensitivity isn't the limiting factor, displacement is.
                  "Sensitivity", in fact, has nothing to do with it:

                  http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/xmaxer.html

                  WinISD will give the same information graphically . . . just switch back an forth between the SPL and Cone excursion graphs to see what's going on.

                  You can equalize any driver "flat" to 20Hz, but if it's small and/or low excursion it won't play very loud. Add compensation for Fletcher-Munson and the available SPL at all frequencies falls further still. The best you can hope for in any small box is to get to maybe 60Hz (with a sharp cutoff below) . . . that can sound OK with most music, but you'll need filtering before the amp to prevent boom-boom stuff from bottoming it.
                  "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                    I still say this driver takes the cake for desktop usage:
                    http://www.parts-express.com/tang-ba...oofer--264-909

                    2 ltrs vented gets you 50 Hz. PR, and you might get more. I haven't modeled the 3.5" Peerless 830878 with it yet, but I mean to.

                    Later,
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                      The RS100-4 will get down to just below 80hz in only slightly larger (0.055-0.060 cu ft). Mine are tuned to 75hz in my Choti design. They will actually get reasonably loud before you start to run into any kind of issues and would work fine for a desktop speaker.
                      -Kerry

                      www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        I still say this driver takes the cake for desktop usage:
                        http://www.parts-express.com/tang-ba...oofer--264-909

                        2 ltrs vented gets you 50 Hz. PR, and you might get more. I haven't modeled the 3.5" Peerless 830878 with it yet, but I mean to.

                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        True, but these are subs more than woofers. Seems very hard to intergrate with a tweeter without a mid.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                          Is the plan to run a single small driver full range? If not, i'm curious if you have a specific tweeter in mind for an MT?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                            Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback, I'm working so not able to spend much time on it now and will be able to look closer tomorrow, but am reading your feedback whenever I get a minute. I appreciate all the feedback so far. To answer the last question, I had hoped for a two way crossed to the new cheap Dayton ribbons. I can do an OB mid in a three way though if need be.
                            Projects:

                            transcenD: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...5035-transcend
                            Summits: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...75-The-Summits
                            References: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-My-References
                            Vintage Style 2-way: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-vintage-2-way

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Best "woofer" for tiny enclosure?

                              Originally posted by mintos View Post
                              True, but these are subs more than woofers. Seems very hard to intergrate with a tweeter without a mid.
                              Could use something like the tc7neo with it. The only problem with the driver really is the really long port to tune it low. The pr may be the best option.
                              https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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