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DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

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  • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

    I've been lurking, following this thread off and on for a while now, really thinking I want to try a set. What are your thoughts on these: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...citer--295-240 ? Has anyone tried them yet, or would I be better off going with the ultra's?
    My modest builds:
    Armadillo TM, A.K.A. Lil' Dillo
    Tarkus/Armadillo build #2
    Armadillo Center Channel
    Au-Rock-O Sub
    Tarkus
    Staining MDF tutorial

    Comment


    • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

      Welcome to the DML thread bolland83! What are you thinking in terms of a build? How about output requirements, bass extension, panel size? Run full-range or will they be paired with a sub?

      On the DAEX30HESF exciter... someone over at Audio Circles likes them on 1/4" ply. Recent comment:
      "The DAEX30HESF-4 still sounds good on my birch boards. Happy! They come in just a bit hot 4-10khz so I need to tweak the boards slightly."



      If sound quality is important I would still recommend the Ultra's even if they are more fragile. The best sounding exciter so long as you high pass them or not in need of high output... and they must be used on light weight panel material. The Thrusters are also very nice sounding and the DAEX30HESF that you ask about appears to also be robust but may need some EQing. Either of these would sound good.

      These panels can sound AMAZING... still some of the best sound I've had in my listen room over the last 30 years in terms of pure musical enjoyment... and I have had MANY high-end speakers over this time period. However one of the things they do not do well (especially on light weight panels like XPS) is a reasonably smooth Freq. Resp. Some disagree over at AC, but I feel that EQ is absolutely essential. Yes, yes... they are still very enjoyable run full-range with no EQ however for these to approach technical excellence the FR must be smoothed. As you would guess, naturally, they sound notably better EQed with my Behringer DCX2496 than run full-range unassisted.

      Comment


      • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

        Originally posted by vega406 View Post
        Sorry, I have not sadly. The wife is pregnant and have been doing a lot with getting stuff ready for that and have been out of town a decent amount lately. Hopefully within the next couple weeks i'll get some "me" time to listen to them some more. I did play them for my wife and a couple friends and they were impressed. I have a coworker who heard a quick video I did on my phone wonder how that would be hooked up to a guitar amplifier...we might either have to get him to build a pair or even try it on mine :D

        Hope you're having fun with them now that you hopefully have some free time!
        DML's are excellent for Pro Audio and have advantages over conventional dynamic speakers. But for a stand along guitar amp I'm not so sure. Not in a traditional form factor anyway. But say a larger panel with multiple exciters... now you might have something there. The clarity and detail is outstanding without being edgy in any way... I would LOVE to hear how these sound with a guitar... it will likely sound different than most any other guitar amp/speaker he's heard... but the speed of the panels combined with the clarity should be very interesting with a guitar actually.

        Hell, in an hour or so, your friend could find out. As you know...ridiculously easy to build... especially for quick prototyping, etc. Have him grab a few Thrusters and get busy bro. Possibly 2 exciters per panel for more output but if costs are a concern 1 per would be more than adequate for a prototype.

        Comment


        • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

          Originally posted by rmeinke View Post
          Welcome to the DML thread bolland83! What are you thinking in terms of a build? How about output requirements, bass extension, panel size? Run full-range or will they be paired with a sub?

          On the DAEX30HESF exciter... someone over at Audio Circles likes them on 1/4" ply. Recent comment:
          "The DAEX30HESF-4 still sounds good on my birch boards. Happy! They come in just a bit hot 4-10khz so I need to tweak the boards slightly."



          If sound quality is important I would still recommend the Ultra's even if they are more fragile. The best sounding exciter so long as you high pass them or not in need of high output... and they must be used on light weight panel material. The Thrusters are also very nice sounding and the DAEX30HESF that you ask about appears to also be robust but may need some EQing. Either of these would sound good.

          These panels can sound AMAZING... still some of the best sound I've had in my listen room over the last 30 years in terms of pure musical enjoyment... and I have had MANY high-end speakers over this time period. However one of the things they do not do well (especially on light weight panels like XPS) is a reasonably smooth Freq. Resp. Some disagree over at AC, but I feel that EQ is absolutely essential. Yes, yes... they are still very enjoyable run full-range with no EQ however for these to approach technical excellence the FR must be smoothed. As you would guess, naturally, they sound notably better EQed with my Behringer DCX2496 than run full-range unassisted.
          I'm thinking a narrow panel that would sit on top of my Tarkus woofer cabs would be pretty slick. I can use those for bass duties so the panels don't need to go super low, just not sure if 13" is going to be too narrow to be usable.
          My modest builds:
          Armadillo TM, A.K.A. Lil' Dillo
          Tarkus/Armadillo build #2
          Armadillo Center Channel
          Au-Rock-O Sub
          Tarkus
          Staining MDF tutorial

          Comment


          • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

            What a thread! Definitly inspiring. Has anyone attempted a "line array" (tall narrow shape) using the exciters? From my reading, it appears that the width has a large affect on the midbass and that could be a drawback.

            Also has anyone attempted using multiple panel materials? Such as sectioning sheet metal and wood?

            Comment


            • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

              Originally posted by bolland83 View Post
              I'm thinking a narrow panel that would sit on top of my Tarkus woofer cabs would be pretty slick. I can use those for bass duties so the panels don't need to go super low, just not sure if 13" is going to be too narrow to be usable.

              This is very possible. See an old post below. I built a very small panel and had good output to slightly below 200Hz. i was sticking with dimension closer to the golden ratio but don't be afraid to stretch the height a bit more. 13"x18" would be fine.

              I found these small panels to absolutely disappear. When I would be standing in the opening of my living room and looking directly at my audio system and speakers if I did not know that those flat panels were speakers i would NOT have known where the sound was coming from. This from a speaker EQed to a mini-monitor freq. resp. I was really impressed... clarity is amazing.

              Now how they integrate with a boxed speaker I don't know. The speed and clarity is very impressive. I would be afraid that the bass bins will sound slow and muddy. I've personally experienced this with running full-range in open baffles. Boxed speakers now sound muddy to me and I have a really hard time enjoying music with even quality vented/sealed speakers.

              But hey, this is such a cheap and easy build just to experience DML panel sound. I'd def. go Ultra's in this case. Can't remember what the Xover freq. and slope are but thinking you are in good shape!!


              Originally posted by rmeinke View Post
              Built a small set of panels recently. 3/4" XPS measuring 12x14.5 inches.

              Low freq. response down to 180Hz and slowly rolls off with a gentle 6dB slope. I EQed them "flat" and boosted low freq. for decent bass response to somewhere in the 75-80Hz mini monitor range.

              They sound very good on vocals. Very clear and open. Anything with low bass shakes the panels and can hear the panel noise. This was an experiment to see how small they can be made yet still sound reasonable run full-range. Idea would be to make a small, thin panel using an array of 4 similar sized panels or integrated with a small Open Baffle sub.

              Took a quick video clip and posted to YouTube : http://youtu.be/To3IOYxTFKw

              More info to come.

              Comment


              • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                Pulled the trigger on 4 of these today: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...4-ohm--295-224 They're cheap so the price is right, figure I'll play around with them for a while and see how they work. I can always upgrade later on. Going to shoot for a 13" x 36" mini/line aray-ish panel and see what happens. I'll let you know how it turns out.
                My modest builds:
                Armadillo TM, A.K.A. Lil' Dillo
                Tarkus/Armadillo build #2
                Armadillo Center Channel
                Au-Rock-O Sub
                Tarkus
                Staining MDF tutorial

                Comment


                • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                  Can the panels be wall mounted? Maybe only 4" or so off the wall?
                  If so how would this impact the sound quality?
                  Unfortunately for me WAF is extremely important.

                  Steve

                  Comment


                  • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                    Originally posted by ameuba10 View Post
                    What a thread! Definitly inspiring. Has anyone attempted a "line array" (tall narrow shape) using the exciters? From my reading, it appears that the width has a large affect on the midbass and that could be a drawback.

                    Also has anyone attempted using multiple panel materials? Such as sectioning sheet metal and wood?
                    A multi-panel DML has been on my short list and the initial interest in creating the small panels and EQing. Appears very possible with enough EQ...likely will not be pushed terribly low but if response down to 40-50Hz (high-passed) is adequate I think they will look and sound quite good! Combined with an OB H/U frame would be fantastic.

                    I assume that when you are referring to multiple panel materials you are referring selecting different materials selected for better HF response and possibly another for better LF response?!?

                    Comment


                    • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                      You can always eq

                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...63#post2047063

                      Originally posted by t3steve View Post
                      Can the panels be wall mounted? Maybe only 4" or so off the wall?
                      If so how would this impact the sound quality?
                      Unfortunately for me WAF is extremely important.

                      Steve
                      My Statement monitors
                      My Piccolatas
                      My LM3886 amp

                      Comment


                      • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                        Originally posted by bolland83 View Post
                        Pulled the trigger on 4 of these today: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...4-ohm--295-224 They're cheap so the price is right, figure I'll play around with them for a while and see how they work. I can always upgrade later on. Going to shoot for a 13" x 36" mini/line aray-ish panel and see what happens. I'll let you know how it turns out.
                        Despite its low cost, that is not a bad sounding exciter with pretty respectable output. Are you thinking 2 exciters per panel? I get a focused array radiation pattern with my 30" tall panels out to between 5-6 feet... I really enjoy listening within the focused array... imaging is fantastic.

                        Comment


                        • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                          Originally posted by Silver1omo View Post
                          Hey Silver1omo, I really enjoyed your thread and love the wall art man... very cool. Have you considered upgrading to a lighter weight panel material and possibly one of the newer exciters without the plastic plate like the DAEX58FP has. I found that the DML magic was completely missing with the DAEX58FP. The DAEX25FHE-4 easily bested the DAEX58FP.

                          With these 2 updates will make for a much better performing panel. Also, even light padding behind the panels will also improve sound quality as even medium drapes pulled behind the panels made a notable improvement.

                          Just a few thoughts...

                          Comment


                          • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                            Originally posted by rmeinke View Post
                            Despite its low cost, that is not a bad sounding exciter with pretty respectable output. Are you thinking 2 exciters per panel? I get a focused array radiation pattern with my 30" tall panels out to between 5-6 feet... I really enjoy listening within the focused array... imaging is fantastic.
                            Yes, I am planning on 2 per panel. Haven't decided on placement, will have to play with them when I get the panels made up. I'm thinking about framing the whole thing and mounting the exciters to a rear rib with the panel suspended only by the 2 exciters. Here's what I got so far:
                            Click image for larger version

Name:	DML concept.jpg
Views:	1
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                            Does this seem like a good concept? Any major flaws with this design?
                            My modest builds:
                            Armadillo TM, A.K.A. Lil' Dillo
                            Tarkus/Armadillo build #2
                            Armadillo Center Channel
                            Au-Rock-O Sub
                            Tarkus
                            Staining MDF tutorial

                            Comment


                            • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                              Originally posted by bolland83 View Post
                              Yes, I am planning on 2 per panel. Haven't decided on placement, will have to play with them when I get the panels made up. I'm thinking about framing the whole thing and mounting the exciters to a rear rib with the panel suspended only by the 2 exciters. Here's what I got so far:
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]57525[/ATTACH]
                              Does this seem like a good concept? Any major flaws with this design?
                              Hey Bolland,
                              The frame is all good and most commercial (Podium and Techtonic) also use spline mounting. Many DIYers over at AC have ditched the spline over the years in favor of free mounting. Also, going from multiple exciters to single exciters claiming that some of the DML magic is gone with multiple exciters per panel. Technically, multiple exciters on a single panel will cause interference/cancellation at high frequencies... the more exciters the more loss of HF.

                              Personally, I would consider cutting the panels in half and use felt strips to join the panels together... if you can imagine that... essentially 2 seperate panels isolated with the soft felt suspension. The bigger panel will provide better LF response but they should play happily down to 150-160Hz even divided into 2 separate panels. You will be rewarded with better HF response and in my opinion, better detail, clarity and "speed"/transient response as the modal behavior appears to dissipate quicker on a smaller panel (imagine a larger panel continuing to flex as an impulse moves across the panel). This is just my opinion and preference for small panels; but I am a detail and clarity freak.
                              Last edited by rmeinke; 05-24-2015, 06:12 PM. Reason: I now just saw the 2/5 spline offset. Good!

                              Comment


                              • Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

                                Got the exciters in the mail today, some quick testing just holding them against various materials I had laying around shows this is a promising project. It also shows that one per panel will be more than enough for normal listening levels. So a trip to lowes to see what they had for XPS foam board followed. Picked up one of these to play with: http://www.lowes.com/pd_14539-46086-...d=3050991&pl=1 Right now I have some small panels cut out and sanded with a coat of glue/water mix drying on them. I ended up shrinking them to 13" x 21" and will use one exciter each. So my next question is, should I free mount the exciters, and do you think the ones I got will hold well with that style of mounting?
                                My modest builds:
                                Armadillo TM, A.K.A. Lil' Dillo
                                Tarkus/Armadillo build #2
                                Armadillo Center Channel
                                Au-Rock-O Sub
                                Tarkus
                                Staining MDF tutorial

                                Comment

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