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DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

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  • While I love his YouTube channel, those speakers are going to be a complete mess for HF reproduction, and forget LF all together. For midrange they WILL work, but to get a smooth output the thing needs to be so damped you may as well forget any efficiency advantage from a radiator of that size. He states that these produce sound the same way a piano soundboard does, which IS true, but he goes on to say traditional cone speakers produce sound “artificially” while wooden resonances are “natural.” Sorry, sound is vibrating air and that’s it. It really doesn’t matter what makes it vibrate. A controlled and predictable speaker cone is significantly more accurate than a random piece of wood/plastic/composite material vibrating. Isn’t the goal of speakers to accurately reproduce recordings?

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    • DML's are great for mid to high frequencies as they are basically full range speakers being able to play from 60hz-20khz. Of course its all design dependent as the better the design the better they will sound. The low frequencies are not as good due to the limited pistonic excursion. Conventional cone drivers move more air to produce bass while DML's vibrate the panel (less air movement) which is why a larger sized panel is needed to produce lower frequencies because it needs to bend the panels hence the term bending wave transducers. EPS needs to be thin (5-10mm) 1/2-1/4 inch to flex enough to produce adequate bass. T.I. video uses 1inch XPS which is to thick. Also EPS is more flexible then XPS.

      There are two types of damping. One is panel treatment damping usually done with a 50/50 water/glue mixture or even paint water based or oil based. The other type of damping is done with some type of foam damping material in which this is used to "TUNE" a panel to smooth out its frequency response. It can be applied directly on to the panel and or on to the panel frame. Shelly Katz Podium speakers gave me the idea to use this technique and it works. http://www.stereomojo.com/Podium%20....akerReview.htm

      One of the best "ACCURATE", sounding DML's speakers are from a Russian company called Sheet Control.> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JheZ84QcZPw

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBXQyR1EwSs

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLweDrL4EDc


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsEg7RjunhQ&t=96s This video compares DML to Dynaudio.

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      • Originally posted by viewcart View Post
        A controlled and predictable speaker cone is significantly more accurate than a random piece of wood/plastic/composite material vibrating. Isn’t the goal of speakers to accurately reproduce recordings?
        Instruments are vibrating material. Whats more accurate then a panel vibrating like a instrument.

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        • It seems some people (on the other forum) dont understand about DML's and bass. Besides having very limited pistonic motion exciters are also not efficient in the bass region. When running full range a exciters mid to high frequencies efficiency will be way higher then the bass which will over power and drown out the bass frequencies. The way to fix it is to use the exciter as sub to only produce the low frequencies 100hz and below. A sub amp is needed as it will push the exciter to produce pistonic motion but wont have the higher frequencies to drown out the lower frequencies.


          My DML sat/sub combo is my top preferred design as it has great high frequencies and well as the low frequencies down to 40hz.

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          • mhester
            mhester commented
            Editing a comment
            I saw the Tech Ingredients vid a year or so ago and have wanted to experiment with this at some point (need to finish my Classix 2.5's first...) This is a very long thread and I'm not sure if you've previously posted your sub design. Can you kindly share that (again?)

          • Unbiasedsound
            Unbiasedsound commented
            Editing a comment
            My DML sub is just a DML panel but utilizing a sub amp so it will only produce the low frequencies from 150hz and below. Exciter used are the larger 25mm and up exciters and they can handle more power and have more excursion.

            The reason for a sub amp is because the exciters voice coil is attached to a heavy thick plastic that is suppose to hold up the exciters weight/magnet so the exciter is not efficient in the low frequencies. To compensate you will need a sub amp to push the exciters into pistonic motion to produce the low frequencies.

          • listencarefully
            listencarefully commented
            Editing a comment
            This is a great idea! You mentioned that a TEAX25C10-8/SP 25mm High Power 8 Ohm Frog Exciter 10W is suitable as a sub exciter. That is a 10W exciter.

            What watt sub amp would be needed? Would the Dayton SA25 25W work for that purpose?

        • Another thing that is great about DML's is that you can custom tune your panels to your preference. You can make them sound bright, dark, forward sounding laid back sounding its all based on how one tunes there panel as the combinations are endless. One can even change the soundstage and imaging of a panel. These tuning changes can be done in as little as 30 seconds per speaker with very little cost and no tools required.

          With conventional cone drivers the usual way to change the sound is to change the crossover and even then its very limited and time consuming, not to mention all the costly tools and parts needed to do so.

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          • During this covid time (3 months 7 days a week 2-4 hrs a day lol) I've been experimenting with many different placements of the exciters including the use of 2 exciters per panel. What I have found is that the 2/5-3/5 rule of exciter placement is bogus. Not sure who first thought of those placements as the standard (NXT?) but it seems P.E. guide and T.I. youtube vid like to use those placements.

            Most just blindly follow those standard placements instead of experimenting for themselves as most cant think outside the box. lol

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            • First post to this forum, apologies if I get things wrong.

              i have a need to place audio monitors in a setting that is extremely space constrained, and think the flat panel approach could be really helpful, ie a monitor that is <3 inches thick. However, it seems there is no easy way of making the flat panel ‘one sided’ so that the volume on one side is loud, the other side quiet. I think I know the answer, that there isn’t an easy way to do this but thought I would throw the question out to this group - is it possible to build some sort of thin enclosure / baffle on the “back” of the panel to stop sound going in that direction?

              thanks for any insights.

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              • Originally posted by NW Sailor View Post
                First post to this forum, apologies if I get things wrong.

                i have a need to place audio monitors in a setting that is extremely space constrained, and think the flat panel approach could be really helpful, ie a monitor that is <3 inches thick. However, it seems there is no easy way of making the flat panel ‘one sided’ so that the volume on one side is loud, the other side quiet. I think I know the answer, that there isn’t an easy way to do this but thought I would throw the question out to this group - is it possible to build some sort of thin enclosure / baffle on the “back” of the panel to stop sound going in that direction?

                thanks for any insights.
                Yes its possible to build a sealed enclosure on the back just like a conventional cone boxed speaker. I would make a 1inchX2inch frame and just cover the back with a thin (1/4-1/8) piece of wood.

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                • If you want to utilize some of that energy from the back of the DML panel you can also make a front firing slot port as this will increase sound output from the front.

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                  • hey all,
                    Newbie and new user on this great forum. Although I have read a bunch of threads on this particular form, I can not find how you are setting up to use the exciters on an 8ohm receiver, because all the recommended exciters are listed at 4 ohm. So.... do I need to get 4 exciters and run two in series of the right and left channel or is there something else I can do to experiment with these with only having to spend the $$$ for just two exciters?
                    I do apologize if this question has been asked before, but I can not find the thread that relates to this
                    Thanks!

                    Edit: I have a 110w 1986 Fisher receiver that I will be using on this experiment

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
                      If you want to utilize some of that energy from the back of the DML panel you can also make a front firing slot port as this will increase sound output from the front.
                      Would that help the bass response like a bass reflex speaker?

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                      • Originally posted by JoeC View Post
                        hey all,
                        Newbie and new user on this great forum. Although I have read a bunch of threads on this particular form, I can not find how you are setting up to use the exciters on an 8ohm receiver, because all the recommended exciters are listed at 4 ohm. So.... do I need to get 4 exciters and run two in series of the right and left channel or is there something else I can do to experiment with these with only having to spend the $$$ for just two exciters?
                        I do apologize if this question has been asked before, but I can not find the thread that relates to this
                        Thanks!

                        Edit: I have a 110w 1986 Fisher receiver that I will be using on this experiment
                        You can just buy the 8ohm exciters. IMO the best 8ohm exciter is the Tectonic (19mm) TEAX19CO1-8. It wont handle the power of the larger (over 19mm) exciters but this exciter will have better high frequency response then the larger exciters.

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                        • Originally posted by JoeC View Post

                          Would that help the bass response like a bass reflex speaker?
                          It could a little but its not like a bass reflex speaker since most of its energy is modal 100hz and up instead of being pistonic like a conventional cone.



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                          • DML's are best when used like a open baffle design since sound is radiating from the front and the back, similar to a bipolar type of loudspeaker but not exactly as the radiation pattern are in and out of phase but so close together that the only difference is a "DIFFUSED" type of sound when compared to a conventional cone bipolar speaker.

                            This diffused type of sound is less susceptible to room reflections as a diffused sound has a weaker reflection. Conventional cone speakers are more susceptible to room reflections which is why some need "DIFFUSERS" to stop those strong reflections.

                            Like Open baffle speakers DML's should be at least 1ft. away from the walls with 2-3ft being ideal for optimum performance.

                            DML panels should also be placed at or below ear level. I prefer slightly below ear level because DML's have really good vertical dispersion. DML's also have very wide dispersion also so toe in is not really needed. In fact they can sound good even slightly toed out. lol


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                            • Thank you for your reply Unbiasedsound!

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