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DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

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  • jim85iroc
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    DSP/EQ can help to flatten out the frequency response and make them sound a bit better but there are limits to DSP/EQ.
    for sure, but I don't do my critical listening in the shower, so if it can help even out the response a bit, I think it'll be an overall win.

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  • Unbiasedsound
    commented on 's reply
    DSP/EQ is not really standard operating procedures in DML. It wont turn a awful sounding DML panel into a really good sounding DML panel. A DML panel is based on one's design as the better your design the better the DML panel will sound. DSP/EQ should mainly be used to fine tune a already good sounding panel.

  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    DSP/EQ can help to flatten out the frequency response and make them sound a bit better but there are limits to DSP/EQ.

    Leave a comment:


  • LOUT
    commented on 's reply
    I've heard folks claiming DSP works well for them and I always kind of thought that was standard operating procedure. I'm assuming passive parts could be used for the same thing if you prefer, but in general I'd assume it's very similar to using any other FullRange driver in that regard.

  • jim85iroc
    replied
    it's probably been addressed somewhere in the 88 pages that I didn't read, but have folks experimented with DSP to flatten out the frequency responses for these? I use a set of the cheap buyout exciters from about 12-13 years ago on the backside of my shower enclosure. I love the setup, but the response certainly is far from flat. I've often though of measuring it and using a Mini-DSP or similar device to try and correct some of it.

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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by pixelphoto View Post
    Has anyone painted there XPS project panels with Plasti Dip spray paint? ( https://plastidip.com ). If so did it effect the sound quality?
    No but from what I read from the site its like rubber and remains flexible and stretchy over time and it can be peelable and removeable from most surfaces. Like paint this can be used as a skin to help tame some high frequencies but like paint if to much is used it can hamper high frequencies. If used lightly it should work but if too thick it will over damp panels.

    One thing not really discussed with DML is the skin. Anything thin, light and even slightly porous can be used as skin. Anything you put on the panels even a light coat of paint will change the sound. T.I. in his comment section claims that light paint wont effect and or change the sound. He is wrong. Paint one panel and not the other and do some critical listening and you will hear a slight difference. Some want to put posters on the panel for decoration but it will change the sound. Again I repeat anything you put on the panels will change the sound as these panels are sensitive to changes. You can even combine materials to be used as the skin, for example my go to material which is the most common one is paint but I also combine that with speaker (grill) CLOTH. I have owned speakers since the 70's and my ears like the sound of the speaker cloth. Speaker cloth can tame some of the harshness making the panels sound smoother. You can wrap them directly on to the panel or away from the panel like a conventional cloth grill. Damn I am giving away to much of my secrets I better shut up. LMAO

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  • pixelphoto
    replied
    Has anyone painted there XPS project panels with Plasti Dip spray paint? ( https://plastidip.com ). If so did it effect the sound quality?

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    You dont need to use a frame, that vid was just to show you where to put the foam. Just use the FK damping foam all around the sides. This will prevent the vibrational waves from escaping from the sides of the panel and making your panel sound fuller and more focused instead of diffused. This will also create better stereo separation, due to the vibration not coming out of the sides and cancelling the other panel out.

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  • SAC
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post

    Damping is a DML panels best friend. You can use Frost king weather strip foam tape on all 4 sides of the panel. If you look at this video you will see the white foam all around the DML panel.

    Bertagni Electroacoustic SM 80 Flat Panel Speakers - YouTube
    I am running these without a frame and hanging them from the ceiling.... does that make a difference? Will be hard to make a frame with the rounded corners

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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by SAC View Post
    More DML love

    I am building a set of 4 to hang from my kitchen ceiling. Using 2x2 XPS (I think?) combined with 1/8x8" round wood panels driven by DAEX25-SHFs and EQ'd with a DSP-408. Not sure about the amp/preamp yet as my old Cambridge Audio preamp seems to have bit the dust.

    Haven't figured out how to use REW yet so I just tuned the DSP-408 with a calibrated mic. The stock sound was very "nasal" with not much top end.... very strong from maybe 2K-8K with big rolloff from there. I got the sweep to be mostly flat, then made some more changes to taste (it was still a little too sibilant) using the harsher reference tracks I had (most of the tracks from Steely Dan's "Gaucho"). Overall I am pleased with the sound, though one thing that was a bit disorienting was the complete lack of a soundstage. The room is just filled with sound, with pretty vague channel separation. Given that these are gonna be on the ceiling I figure that is fine. They sound great otherwise.
    Damping is a DML panels best friend. You can use Frost king weather strip foam tape on all 4 sides of the panel. If you look at this video you will see the white foam all around the DML panel.

    Bertagni Electroacoustic SM 80 Flat Panel Speakers - YouTube

    Leave a comment:


  • SAC
    replied
    More DML love

    I am building a set of 4 to hang from my kitchen ceiling. Using 2x2 XPS (I think?) combined with 1/8x8" round wood panels driven by DAEX25-SHFs and EQ'd with a DSP-408. Not sure about the amp/preamp yet as my old Cambridge Audio preamp seems to have bit the dust.

    Haven't figured out how to use REW yet so I just tuned the DSP-408 with a calibrated mic. The stock sound was very "nasal" with not much top end.... very strong from maybe 2K-8K with big rolloff from there. I got the sweep to be mostly flat, then made some more changes to taste (it was still a little too sibilant) using the harsher reference tracks I had (most of the tracks from Steely Dan's "Gaucho"). Overall I am pleased with the sound, though one thing that was a bit disorienting was the complete lack of a soundstage. The room is just filled with sound, with pretty vague channel separation. Given that these are gonna be on the ceiling I figure that is fine. They sound great otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    How To Build "The World's Best Speakers" - Are Flat Panel Speakers Really Any Good? - YouTube If you look into 12:40 of that vid you can see the magnet as well as the pink panels moving back and forth, this is the reason why a spine is needed to support the magnet so it has the spine to push off of and transfer all its force into the pink panel diaphragm. Without a spline with the volume turned up on heavy bass tracks the magnet without a spine will rattle because there is no support of the magnet. This rattling is caused by the weight of the magnet moving in which I believe can cause voice coil damage in the long run if playing at loud volumes with a lot of bass. You can clearly see the exciter moving in pistonic motion as the thruster exciter as well as other high powered heavy duty exciters can go into pistonic motion if driven hard enough that is why I recommend using a sub amp to push the exciter into pistonic motion as there sensitivity starts to drop like a rock below 100hz. Smaller the exciter the less pistonic motion, while the larger exciters have more pistonic motion. Any exciter under 19mm will not have any bass.

    The common misconception is that exciters are not pistonic which is not true. In the low frequency spectrum they become pistonic but in the mid to highs they become modal in motion. Its just that the exciters are not efficient in the low frequencies due to the heavy plastic attached to the voice coil in which is needed to support the magnets weight as well as the heavy dml diaphragm that is why a panel needs to be light and thin. A BMR driver does not need a heavy plastic so the light voice coil is attached directly to the light diaphragm making the pistonic motion just as effecient as the higher frequencies for a more balanced sound. Also a BMR drivers magnet is supported by a frame in which it holds it in place like a spine. Most people dont realize a BMR is basically a DML exciter but using a slightly different design.

    I just finished building my newest/latest design and this is one of my best satellite panels to date but I am working on another design and hopefully it will be just as good or better. Oh my bad just rambling. lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    The pink 2X2ft. XPS panels are usually the beginners intro design into DML technology. The DAEX32Q-8 is one of the worst exciters when it comes to the higher frequencies. Sound quality is based off of ones design and most beginners design dont sound even as good as entry level conventional cone driver speakers as your B652 will sound better. EQ should be used to fine tune ones panels as it wont make a terrible sounding panel into a good sounding panel.

    Thats not XPS, its EPS. XPS is usually pink or blue in color known as Extruded polystyrene while EPS is usually white and known as Expanded polystyrene. There are various densities of XPS and EPS ranging from very soft to very hard. under 1lbs and 1lbs-5lbs densities. Lower density equals lighter panels while higher densities equals heavier panels. Ideal density is not at either ends of she spectrum but rather in the middle. When a panel becomes to dense efficiency is lowered but if a panel doesnt have enough density it will lack the higher frequencies. There's compromises to make. Size and Thickness of a panel also come into play as well as the type of exciter used as not all exciters are created equally. Other factors include hanging of panels or using a frame to support panels like a bookshelf or floor standard speakers. Exciter placement on the panel is also another factor. Shape of panels makes a difference. The most accurate sounding panel shape is a square followed by a rectangle, but the rectangle should not be too long as the longer the rectangle the more exaggerated and weird it will sound due to physics. DML panels are very sensitive to changes anything touching the panel can change the sound. There are so many methods and techniques that the designs are almost endless.

    I mentioned to Listencarefully about which exciter I thought sounded good and the panel density , size , shape and thickness.

    Leave a comment:


  • SAC
    replied
    Hey everybody

    I'm trying to build some DML panels to hang from my kitchen ceiling in combo with a Dayton 10" sub. I mainly listen to jazz, funk and old rock. My current setup is built around B652 AIRs but those have to go. I got DAEX32Q-8exciters to use with 2x2 XPS panels. Problem is they sound terrible. I haven't measured them but they just have very low sensitivity and absolutely no top end. Do all DMLs need extensive post EQing, or do these particular exciters suck? If so what do people recommend?

    I saw someone above had good luck with thinner + higher weight XPS... is that something I should try? I've seen a lot of people do the 2x2' panels I've done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukk View Post

    I will have to have a look for them to be sure but I believe they are NXT branded. It looks like there is a similar set on ebay.ca right now.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cd-x8-New-U...AAAOSw9jte~494

    Its the Teac brand but licensed by NXT

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