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  • #61
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
    My point exactly. some comments are not based on an educated view but rather rhetoric. Somebody mentioned the word "legislate" and if you know anything about anti hunters and anti meat people, they are very much into banning things based on there "feelings". No one believes there is no animal cruelty going on (me included) but 99% of farms are not engaging in such behavior. Corporate farms are still run by families who lease the land back from the corps how own them. You cant feed billions of people with out big time farming, You cant pat a chicken on the head to make him feel good then chop its head off. That way of thinking is just about patting your self on the back to make you feel better not the chicken. its silly.
    Bear, I agree with
    your last two sentences but I also feel you can feed the masses without resorting to animal abuse. I really did not see anywhere in this
    thread where anyone said hunters are idiotic morons. What I did read was "specific" stories about people that forum members had issue with. I don't know if you read what I posted but it was not anti-hunting. I don't know if I buy into your corporate farm opinion
    but I feel you can humanely harvest animals and corporations don't strive to do so. One other note, poachers and trophy hunters do
    deserve a special hell. To kill or maim an animal to feed the Asian market for Ivory, Rhino horns and such so some guy thinks it wil
    work like Viagra is disturbing to say the least. But hey, they are only animals. They did not know their tusks or horns were valuable
    so what's the big deal if someone kils or maims me to get them. They are only animals,right?

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    • #62
      Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

      I don't that killing things should be fun. I understand that tracking things and catching them is fun and rewarding but not the killing part. Hunting and killing is a necessity for survival and respect should be shown. Mounting a head on a wall is not respectful. Vlad might like it though.

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      • #63
        Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

        Originally posted by czag View Post
        That is horrible. Most of the men I know hunt, and I have never heard a story like that. I probably wouldn't associate with them if they did. I'm not a big animal rights person, but to go out of your way to be cruel is not cool to say the least. To brag about it is even worse.
        Most of the hunters I know are responsible.
        But there are a few bad ones out there, and they stand out.

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        • #64
          Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

          Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post
          Bear, I agree with
          your last two sentences but I also feel you can feed the masses without resorting to animal abuse. I really did not see anywhere in this
          thread where anyone said hunters are idiotic morons. What I did read was "specific" stories about people that forum members had issue with. I don't know if you read what I posted but it was not anti-hunting. I don't know if I buy into your corporate farm opinion
          but I feel you can humanely harvest animals and corporations don't strive to do so. One other note, poachers and trophy hunters do
          deserve a special hell. To kill or maim an animal to feed the Asian market for Ivory, Rhino horns and such so some guy thinks it wil
          work like Viagra is disturbing to say the least. But hey, they are only animals. They did not know their tusks or horns were valuable
          so what's the big deal if someone kils or maims me to get them. They are only animals,right?
          I hear ya, the problem with those stories of "I knew a guy that" is that naive people start to believe thats the norm. Thats how stories about unethical corp farming are evil grow. Corp farming is merely a way of financing a volatile industry. Farming is a risky business. Corporate goof ***** have no desire to run a farm thats why the lease it back to the original owner or a neighbor. the corp is only interested in quality control and maintaining a consistent product.

          On trophy hunting, if your going to kill an animal, dont you think you should make the most of all of it? meat and mounting a head and rack, do you believe throwing away the head because it demeaning to the animal is a good idea? i dont know any trophy hunter that waste meat.

          poaching an endangered species is a another matter. cultures outside America are another matter all together. Wild animals live in fear day in day out. there are always predator trying to kill them so yes the do know. frankly animal hunting brings big money to the conservation effort both here and abroad. more than you think.

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          • #65
            Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

            Bear, I never stated the negative things I've seen are the 'norm'. I support hunting and believe it's far more humane than most mass market animal raising and harvesting.

            I disagree completely that animals are 'just' animals. No, they're not human but they do have compassion to some degree and in one form or another.

            Just one example...

            "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
            ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

              Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
              I hear ya, the problem with those stories of "I knew a guy that" is that naive people start to believe thats the norm. Thats how stories about unethical corp farming are evil grow. Corp farming is merely a way of financing a volatile industry. Farming is a risky business. Corporate goof ***** have no desire to run a farm thats why the lease it back to the original owner or a neighbor. the corp is only interested in quality control and maintaining a consistent product.

              On trophy hunting, if your going to kill an animal, dont you think you should make the most of all of it? meat and mounting a head and rack, do you believe throwing away the head because it demeaning to the animal is a good idea? i dont know any trophy hunter that waste meat.

              poaching an endangered species is a another matter. cultures outside America are another matter all together. Wild animals live in fear day in day out. there are always predator trying to kill them so yes the do know. frankly animal hunting brings big money to the conservation effort both here and abroad. more than you think.
              Bear, I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said
              Trophy hunting. What I meant was killing an animal only for the mount or skin to mount on the wall. If you are a responsible hunter
              I have no issue with someone getting their big buck mounted as long as the animal was harvested to eat not just because he would
              look good on the wall in the den.

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              • #67
                Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                The dog video is good stuff. Ive raised many dogs, trained them to hunt. They love it which is why i hunt most of the time. I had two young dogs a long time ago and they escaped, one got hit by a car the other saw it and wouldnt let anyone near his brother. A sad day to say the least, but the devotion they show is remarkable. Still, during my time training dogs ive seen quit clearly animals understand very little about the world around them. everytime we get ready to go hunting, the dog knows, but he never thinks it through. like, maybe i should hydrate before we go. Little things that show he doesnt get it. Thats why they get hit by cars. ive been around farm animals there even worse, dumb as rocks. What you see animals do is pure instinct. If he needs to pee he just goes. Purely emotional instict for the purpose of survival and breeding. its not concuss thought.

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                • #68
                  Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                  Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
                  The dog video is good stuff. Ive raised many dogs, trained them to hunt. They love it which is why i hunt most of the time. I had two young dogs a long time ago and they escaped, one got hit by a car the other saw it and wouldnt let anyone near his brother. A sad day to say the least, but the devotion they show is remarkable. Still, during my time training dogs ive seen quit clearly animals understand very little about the world around them. everytime we get ready to go hunting, the dog knows, but he never thinks it through. like, maybe i should hydrate before we go. Little things that show he doesnt get it. Thats why they get hit by cars. ive been around farm animals there even worse, dumb as rocks. What you see animals do is pure instinct. If he needs to pee he just goes. Purely emotional instict for the purpose of survival and breeding. its not concuss thought.
                  I had a male chow chow about thirty years ago. A friend of my parents-in-law asked to see him because they were considering getting a chow chow for themselves. I arrived there and opened the car door to let him out without a leash. The folks asked if I was worried he would run off or chase a cat or other animal. Nope... he minds what I tell him. A few minutes later the dog started to lift his leg on their front porch posts. I said, "Tiger, no. If you need to pee then go over on those trees" (I pointed to the trees). He went to the trees and selected a nice one. The couple was shocked and asked if he understood everything I said. I told them no but he pretty much gets the gist of it.

                  No free will? No intelligence? No self-control? No compassion? Really?
                  "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
                  ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                    Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
                    , but he never thinks it through. like, maybe i should hydrate before we go. Little things that show he doesnt get it. Thats why they get hit by cars. If he needs to pee he just goes. Purely emotional instict for the purpose of survival and breeding. its not concuss thought.
                    Could be describing a young child

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                      Originally posted by Tin_Ears View Post
                      I had a male chow chow about thirty years ago. A friend of my parents-in-law asked to see him because they were considering getting a chow chow for themselves. I arrived there and opened the car door to let him out without a leash. The folks asked if I was worried he would run off or chase a cat or other animal. Nope... he minds what I tell him. A few minutes later the dog started to lift his leg on their front porch posts. I said, "Tiger, no. If you need to pee then go over on those trees" (I pointed to the trees). He went to the trees and selected a nice one. The couple was shocked and asked if he understood everything I said. I told them no but he pretty much gets the gist of it.

                      No free will? No intelligence? No self-control? No compassion? Really?
                      lol, thats a condition response. you conditioned him to act a cerntain way when he pees. if he really got it he would haved pee'd on the tree the first time. but they cant because he didnt know the difference between the porch or the tree. He was never conditioned to pee somewhere specific at there house. Dogs are preditors they hunt and kill to eat. they are definitely smarter the vegasorous. I have a young dog now and i can train him to do something here at home and then try to get him to do it at the park and its like he never did it before. complicated tasks need to be broken done to small parts and he never puts it all together until sometime later and then finally it will all come together. it takes weeks to do, over and over again. then go and do it some where he's never been and cant do it. He's young. it takes years before they get really good.

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                      • #71
                        Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                        Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
                        lol, thats a condition response. you conditioned him to act a cerntain way when he pees. if he really got it he would haved pee'd on the tree the first time. but they cant because he didnt know the difference between the porch or the tree. He was never conditioned to pee somewhere specific at there house. Dogs are preditors they hunt and kill to eat. they are definitely smarter the vegasorous. I have a young dog now and i can train him to do something here at home and then try to get him to do it at the park and its like he never did it before. complicated tasks need to be broken done to small parts and he never puts it all together until sometime later and then finally it will all come together. it takes weeks to do, over and over again. then go and do it some where he's never been and cant do it. He's young. it takes years before they get really good.
                        Have you ever seen a dog cry? I have many times... several different dogs. I'm talking real emotional tears from sadness.
                        "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
                        ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                          I prefer fishing, as I have less trouble killing a fish than I do a large mammal. I went deer hunting once with Dad, and I couldn't do it either. I love deer meat (as well as many other meats), but I have trouble killing a deer personally. I do not have a problem with others doing so. Even in the Word, it does not condone killing for sport, as it says that God's creatures were put here for our usage; ie- not our wasting.

                          I can't hit a rabbit cuz I'm not fast enough. They taste really good....
                          I've killed baever, squirrel, mice, raccoon, woodchuck, fish, opossum, and chipmunks. No I've not eaten all of those, but in the cases of 'being a nuisance', possibly incurring property damage, or threatening my family due to close proximity or sickness; I have no problem putting down an animal. In the event that the kill is not in the first strike, hopefully the second one finishes the job to prevent prolonged suffering. If you mame an animal, find it, and take care of it. There will inevitably be misses and hits, or even hits not where you intended. Strive to make the kill in one strike, whatever the method.

                          Since I live in the country, I get the occasional wild animal around. For instance- I stepped outside on my back porch last weekend to find a raccoon tearing through a bag of recycling I'd set out looking for food- in broad daylight! Being that 'coon are nocturnal, this sent up a red flag. I shoed him off the porch since my daughter and wife were right behind me going out. (Almost let my daughter go first, but quickly changed that when I saw him. Didn't want her getting bitten.) Since it was not 'acting right', and stumbled as it went, I put it down. I burnt the carcass the next day since it was likely sick.

                          This is the kind of treatment I find acceptable. No other animal will get sick from its meat, it was disposed of properly, and will no longer suffer. That said- I see nothing wrong with a 'proof' photo, but do not just waste an animal in terms of hunting. The Native Americans made use of everything from the buffalo. Food, shelter, clothing, weapons, and supplies. That is the ultimate usage of a kill, should it befitting. I don't see anything wrong with mounting a deer rack, but I love eating venison.

                          Later,
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
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                          • #73
                            Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                            ^^^ Right, IMO, though I dob't shoot any animals of any size unless it's a danger or a nuisance. Yeah, I'm a wuss.
                            "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
                            ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

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                            • #74
                              Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                              Originally posted by Tin_Ears View Post
                              ^^^ Right, IMO, though I dob't shoot any animals of any size unless it's a danger or a nuisance. Yeah, I'm a wuss.
                              Nothing wrong with that. i wouldnt call you a wuss either. Its not an easy thing to do. There is little need for it in today's modern world. And its even harder if you hold no value in it and no point in doing it. For me there is value. not just the meat/trophy. Humans are part of the natural world like all the other animals, we are predators weather you choose to be or not. Trying to remove your self from it is bad in my opinion. They all ways say "dont feed the wild animals". why? because it disrupts there behavour. They lose there fear of humans, changes there feeding habits. Hunting is one way we stay connected with the natural world. I think ive gain a greater respect for animals because of it. And of course i mean responsible hunting. Those that dont hunt seem to miss this point and tend to go overboard with what they consider ethical. hunting is natural for us, but if you dont learn it you wont understand it as well.

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                              • #75
                                Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

                                Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
                                Nothing wrong with that. i wouldnt call you a wuss either. Its not an easy thing to do. There is little need for it in today's modern world. And its even harder if you hold no value in it and no point in doing it. For me there is value. not just the meat/trophy. Humans are part of the natural world like all the other animals, we are predators weather you choose to be or not. Trying to remove your self from it is bad in my opinion. They all ways say "dont feed the wild animals". why? because it disrupts there behavour. They lose there fear of humans, changes there feeding habits. Hunting is one way we stay connected with the natural world. I think ive gain a greater respect for animals because of it. And of course i mean responsible hunting. Those that dont hunt seem to miss this point and tend to go overboard with what they consider ethical. hunting is natural for us, but if you dont learn it you wont understand it as well.
                                I agree with you as a whole... and forgive me if I'm wrong... but you're a Christian, right?

                                Before the great flood, mankind did not consume animal flesh. After the flood man was allowed to eat animals in order to survive... for a time. My question is, if there's no longer a need and if it's far less efficient to do so then why do we still raise and consume animals?

                                Don't get me wrong... I still eat some meat. I'm just considering becoming vegan.

                                I realize this is verging into religion... but I only mention it to make a point regarding what's 'natural' for mankind to do. BTW... I became an agnostic many years ago.
                                "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
                                ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

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