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OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

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  • Bear64
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Me thinks some have reading comprehension issues and/or react emotionally without logic. If you read my posts, I state that I fully support hunting if done skillfully and ethically.
    As long as its meeting your idea of "skillfull and ethically" (a non hunter) will be ok.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear64
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    This idea that farm animals are treated inhumanely is also overrated. I serves no purpose for a farmer to abuse his animals, its there life blood and only cuts into the ability to make a living. Its rare that this happens. A chicken thats raised in a cage knows no other life there for he can not miss what he never had. They are not sitting there sulking and dreaming of a distant cousin who roams the open range freely. The idea that we should not eat meat because a few idiots in life behave badly is pathological. Animals are nothing like humans. They eat and breed. thats it. some are desighned for the sole purpose of being food for others including humans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tin_Ears
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
    This thread started as a complaint about using modern tools for increasing your odds of success as not being "sporting" and it decended to hunters are unethical idiots murdering meat. As a life long hunter I take offense to that. cherry pick your story about bad hunters if you want but its not the norm.

    Ive crossed paths with non-hunters all over this country and the its the same conversation. People who dont hunt not knowing anything about hunting, making irrational hate speech based on there own ignorance.
    Me thinks some have reading comprehension issues and/or react emotionally without logic. If you read my posts, I state that I fully support hunting if done skillfully and ethically.

    Leave a comment:


  • djg
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVgbX_YeK-s

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear64
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Humans are supposed to be better than coyotes. Responsible hunting is good. Irresponsible hunting is bad. What's so difficult to understand about that?
    This thread started as a complaint about using modern tools for increasing your odds of success as not being "sporting" and it decended to hunters are unethical idiots murdering meat. As a life long hunter I take offense to that. cherry pick your story about bad hunters if you want but its not the norm.

    Ive crossed paths with non-hunters all over this country and the its the same conversation. People who dont hunt not knowing anything about hunting, making irrational hate speech based on there own ignorance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tin_Ears
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post
    Regarding hunting/slaughter houses, the reason I personally don't hunt is I would be extremely upset if it was not a clean kill. The
    thought of an animal having to suffer a painful death because I only wounded it is something I'm not willing to live with. When it
    comes to slaughter houses or farms, if the animals are treated humanely I don't have issue with it. It is the stories of animal
    cruelty when being raised on or in "factory farms" and mistreatment on the way to and at the slaughter house that disgust me. I
    love the taste of veal but have not eaten in in 15yrs. after seeing a documentary on it. There is no reason other than greed that
    animals cannot be raised and slaughtered humanely.
    My thoughts precisely but I'll add that we have little control over what meat we buy other than to buy kosher. I'm not Jewish, BTW. Also, over the last few years I've cut my meat consumption by 70-80 percent. I'm considering becoming vegan.

    Leave a comment:


  • MGrant1957
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    I started shooting firearms at an early age (about 4 or 5 I think), but it was always targets, never anything alive. My father used to develop loads for Dupont. When they came out with a new powder, they would send him a gallon plastic jug of it with a note saying 'This new powder has a burning rate between IMR4227 and Hogden H110. We think it will work well in Medium caliber rifles, or Magnum Pistols.' So, my father would decide on what cartridge to try it in, and we would load a batch using the same brass, same head stamp, same primer, all full length resized, trimmed to length, and chamfered. The ONLY thing that was different was the powder charge. We would load 5 rounds with 22 grains of powder, 5 rounds with 22.5 grains of powder, 5 rounds with 23 grains of powder, and 5 rounds with 23.5 grains of powder. When we went to the range, they were fired in that order, lowest to highest, and all were run over the chronograph, and we were constantly looking for signs of higher pressure.

    In those days (early '60s to '70s) factory ammo was not very consistant, so all of the local Police/hunters/target competition guys came to my father for their ammo as it was KNOWN to be the most accurate in the area. A hunter friend of my dads would show up and say " I'm going to Montana next week for some Mule Deer, and need some ammo for my .338". Dad would make up a box of ammo and the Hunter would return 2 weeks later and through 20 lbs. of meat in our freezer. It wall all about accuracy, the 'One shot, One Quick Kill'

    I have never been hunting myself and have never felt the need to do so, but I have no problem with those that do it to put food on the table. I hope there is 'A Special Hell' for those idiots that hunt and do not eat what they kill. A Special Hell reserved for bad hunters. child molesters, and people that talk on their phones at the movie theatre.

    I don't have a problem with kids learning the PROPER way to handle a firearm,
    Rule #1: ALWAYS point your firearm in a safe direction
    Rule #2: any firearm is ALWAYS LOADED until you open and check the chamber
    Rule #3: See Rule #1

    my 2 cents.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squidspeak
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Regarding hunting/slaughter houses, the reason I personally don't hunt is I would be extremely upset if it was not a clean kill. The
    thought of an animal having to suffer a painful death because I only wounded it is something I'm not willing to live with. When it
    comes to slaughter houses or farms, if the animals are treated humanely I don't have issue with it. It is the stories of animal
    cruelty when being raised on or in "factory farms" and mistreatment on the way to and at the slaughter house that disgust me. I
    love the taste of veal but have not eaten in in 15yrs. after seeing a documentary on it. There is no reason other than greed that
    animals cannot be raised and slaughtered humanely.

    Leave a comment:


  • craigk
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
    Iam sure the caveman scoffed at the Indians when they invented the bow and arrow to! come on people there just tools no different than the computer program you use to do all the hard work of designing speakers! have you ever seen a coyote eat a deer while they are still alive? there relentless and murderess. Humans pail in comparison. Some of you are watching to many Disney movies. Try controlling your emotions and use some logic and learn something about a topic before you comment.
    well said. there is no Thumper or Flower. Bambi does not talk. this anthropomorphic society we live in is not reality. I have traveled to numerous counties, and we, the USA, are one of the few countries that try and turn animals into humans. I am not into animal abuse or cruelly, but these are animals. they do not have arms they have legs, they are not Mommies and Daddies babies, they are animals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tin_Ears
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by Bear64 View Post
    Iam sure the caveman scoffed at the Indians when they invented the bow and arrow to! come on people there just tools no different than the computer program you use to do all the hard work of designing speakers! have you ever seen a coyote eat a deer while they are still alive? there relentless and murderess. Humans pail in comparison. Some of you are watching to many Disney movies. Try controlling your emotions and use some logic and learn something about a topic before you comment.
    Humans are supposed to be better than coyotes. Responsible hunting is good. Irresponsible hunting is bad. What's so difficult to understand about that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bear64
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Iam sure the caveman scoffed at the Indians when they invented the bow and arrow to! come on people there just tools no different than the computer program you use to do all the hard work of designing speakers! have you ever seen a coyote eat a deer while they are still alive? there relentless and murderess. Humans pail in comparison. Some of you are watching to many Disney movies. Try controlling your emotions and use some logic and learn something about a topic before you comment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tin_Ears
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by czag View Post
    I agree that more natural predators would help balance our ecosystem, which would be an overall benefit, but lets not pretend it wouldn't have negative consequences also. I don't know if having grizzly bears, wolves, and mountain lions roaming just about the entire US would be all that fun for us humans, with that many around we would be their prey. We are way easier to catch than a deer or even a rabbit. Also, humans clearing land is probably more of a contributing factor to increased deer population than a lack of predators. The vast forest that once covered much of the eastern half of this country was very far from the optimum habitat for white tailed deer. Deer thrive on the perimeter of forest not in them.

    I see people throw around the idea that many or most deer shot are wasted, I would like to see some data to back that up as it has not been my experience. Mind you I am not saying it isn't true, I just need to see some sort of proof beyond people just thinking it must be true.
    AFAIK, this isn't the 'norm' for hunters but around here (the neighbors I've spoken to) waste most of what they kill. I've heard them claim, "I shot a deer behind the ear with a .22LR and it went down instantly. We ate the back straps and fed the rest to the dogs". And, "I shot a deer and took the head and left the rest for the vultures". I've seen many deer gut-shot and left to die a horrible/painful death. Perhaps it's just the turds that live near me who have no conscience and no heart.

    FWIW, I do know there are hunters who have conscience and heart. And I do completely support hunting if done with skill and care.

    Leave a comment:


  • czag
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
    We now have to shoot deer, many of which end up not being food - not even food for the critters that benefit greatly from a deer carcass or two.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnnyrichards
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by czag View Post
    I agree that more natural predators would help balance our ecosystem, which would be an overall benefit, but lets not pretend it wouldn't have negative consequences also. I don't know if having grizzly bears, wolves, and mountain lions roaming just about the entire US would be all that fun for us humans, with that many around we would be their prey. We are way easier to catch than a deer or even a rabbit. Also, humans clearing land is probably be more of a contributing factor to increased deer population than a lack of predators. The vast forest that once covered much of the eastern half of this country was very far from the optimum habitat for white tailed deer. Deer thrive on the perimeter of forest not in them.

    I see people throw around the idea that many or most deer shot are wasted, I would like to see some data to back that up as it has not been my experience. Mind you I am not saying it isn't true, I just need to see some sort of proof beyond people just thinking it must be true.
    I made no claims about many or most deer being wasted - I pointed out specific examples of that behavior. It is naive to think it doesn't happen - and even more so to believe it doesn't happen with people you know. I see no real sweeping claims or condemnations by anyone else, either. In fact, what I see is a lot of agreement that the life meant something, and responsibility falls on our shoulders for that life. I just happen to think people that shoot animals for horns and sport are tools, that's all. That serves no purpose. It's stupid, and a waste of a life, and excruciatingly inefficient for population control purposes. It is like logging companies saying logging makes healthy forests - then they take the best and leave the scrunts behind. Predators targeting herd animals first attempt to take the weak and the young. Sport hunters do not obey that first law of predation.

    Grizzlies and bears in general, are not a concern as a predator. Human beings are rarely on any predators menu - we probably die more often as a consequence of deer-car accidents than we do getting eaten by predators. Man eaters are extremely rare - that is an illogical argument against reintroduction of predators. Protecting sheep, maybe - but humans are simply not in danger from predation. Don't believe the stories you see on television - man eaters are rare even in areas where the predators are large enough and skillful enough to take down prey like humans (you do not give yourself enough credit for survival skills), and are almost unheard of in the New World. It is so rare, in fact, that much like strangers abducting children - it makes headlines. It was always rare, even when wolves and mountain lions ranged all over the country. For the most part, humans have to fear other humans.

    Deer benefit from clearing land, obviously - that is implied within my statement explaining that almost everything that grows is edible to deer.

    I did my tour in a slaughterhouse - from the moment the pigs were offloaded until they met the hammer at the top of what we called the "stairway to heaven", they were treated fine. Better than the workers, anyways. Knock 'em on the head, hang 'em up by their hind legs, cut their throats, slit their bellies, remove innards, scald, scrape, peel, freeze, bacon. It is a beautiful process.

    Leave a comment:


  • czag
    replied
    Re: OT. Wild game hunting is BIG business!

    Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
    It isn't a noble thing to cull the herds through hunting, it isn't a good thing, it isn't the right thing - it is simply our responsibility because the expanding herd is 100% our fault. No sense in complaining about it - we are the ones who have reduced or outright extirpated the wolves and the mountain lions from almost every area that harbors white tail deer. We now have to shoot deer, many of which end up not being food - not even food for the critters that benefit greatly from a deer carcass or two.
    I agree that more natural predators would help balance our ecosystem, which would be an overall benefit, but lets not pretend it wouldn't have negative consequences also. I don't know if having grizzly bears, wolves, and mountain lions roaming just about the entire US would be all that fun for us humans, with that many around we would be their prey. We are way easier to catch than a deer or even a rabbit. Also, humans clearing land is probably more of a contributing factor to increased deer population than a lack of predators. The vast forest that once covered much of the eastern half of this country was very far from the optimum habitat for white tailed deer. Deer thrive on the perimeter of forest not in them.

    I see people throw around the idea that many or most deer shot are wasted, I would like to see some data to back that up as it has not been my experience. Mind you I am not saying it isn't true, I just need to see some sort of proof beyond people just thinking it must be true.

    Leave a comment:

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