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  • #16
    Re: New Wave buyouts

    Comparing my "before" impedance with your "after", it looks as though your mod lowered tuning frequency about 10Hz and changed the relative amplitude of the peaks. I've also attached some distortion measurements of the complete speaker and the woofer and tweeter separately as well as an FR measurement comparing the as-is FR with the reverse polarity FR (the black line is out of the box and the blue line is reverse polarity). My as-is response matches the graph you posted pretty well, so that's good. You can see, though, that when the tweeter polarity is reversed, the response smooths out decently and just looks like a speaker devoid of any BSC, which is evident by examining the crossover. It's almost like they were using the nulls created by the inverted tweeter to bring the upper midrange down to the upper bass level.

    The current xo is near 1.5kHz, which is way too low for this poor tweeter. I'm having some decent luck leaving the xo in place and just adding a few components to it to get the xo above 3kHz, which avoids a lot of the tweeter distortion. One of these components (for full BSC), however, is a 4.0mH inductor which might be a little pricy for this project. All in all, it should end up being a decent sounding speaker for an extra $20 per side.

    Dan
    Attached Files
    _____________________________
    Tall Boys
    NRNP Computer Sub
    The Boxers
    The Hurricanes
    The Baronettes
    Conneccentric
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    • #17
      Re: New Wave buyouts

      Originally posted by critofur View Post
      Thanks. Looks so strange, in that last picture, huh.
      Yeah, it's a weird looking woofer.
      _____________________________
      Tall Boys
      NRNP Computer Sub
      The Boxers
      The Hurricanes
      The Baronettes
      Conneccentric
      UX3

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: New Wave buyouts

        I just got my 6.5" versions this morning. You can see the woofer thru the port, so I'll probably plug the hole and re-drill for the port near the top of the cabinet. I think the OEM set-up is a make-do for the lack of BSC. Un-broken-in, "Abbey Road" shows they have some potential for decent bass for $60 a pair stock. There's no "continuously variable tweeter control" on them. (Oops P-E!) My white grilles are stained from storage, but I can live with that. They are probably as sensitive as claimed (98.5 db/W). They are at least 50% louder on one channel of a DTA-100A than a Pioneer BS22-LR on the other channel (should be about 5 dB...close enough for hand grenades and being pregnant).

        A little better XO with or without BSC to the tweeter (I can EQ in the 35-40 Hz range for BSC, it won't take much for my Mom's living room), will make them pretty darn good, IMO.

        I want to break them in a bit before doing any measurements. With nothing yet to go on, I have a pair of Dayton DC28F-8's collecting dust if anyone runs a DATS on the 6.5" woofer.

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        • #19
          Re: New Wave buyouts

          Dan is that 4th 5th order distortion? My graphs don't run that high but I limit to the average, second, and third order.

          I've remeasured with the grills on
          Attached Files
          John H

          Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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          • #20
            Re: New Wave buyouts

            My graphs above show 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th order and I was pushing them pretty hard. About 95dB at 24in. The distortion climbed fast as I raised the volume level.

            Dan
            _____________________________
            Tall Boys
            NRNP Computer Sub
            The Boxers
            The Hurricanes
            The Baronettes
            Conneccentric
            UX3

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: New Wave buyouts

              Hm, bought a pair of the 6.5" ones for a cheap but decent dorm setup, seems like I got lucky, not sure what to do with them, grilles were mismatched, one white and dirty, the other black, but who cares about grilles, but one of my woofers has some sort of rattle/vibration to it, best way I can describe it is that it sounds like someone holding a piece of paper over the port when they get even remotely turned up, especially with any sort of track with more than a little bass to it... I don't mean to thread hijack here, but while I'm waiting for PE to get back to me, I'm trying to figure out what could be wrong without taking anything apart...

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: New Wave buyouts

                Thanks for all this great info. I've bought the completely-built buy-out speakers before, just because they come with ready-made boxes. I've been able to modify and improve the enclosures well enough to get some better SQ from them, w/o doing any XO mods except the usual tweaking...since I don't have a measurement rig, just listening and playing around with XO components. PE used to have those "Book"-shelf speakers pop up occasionally, small MTMs that looked like a book. Vance Dickason had some designs using Bravox woofers, the little 3.5" ones, mated with TangBand tweeters. His MTM design was a great fit for the little book speakers, and after my first build using the Dickason drivers/XO in them, they were a hit. I bought a few "cases" of the book speakers and modified them. I only have 1 pair left, that I still use. The stock drivers were uh, pretty bad, and I had to enlarge the woofer holes about 3/16". With a small sub, a pretty good 2.1 system and with 5 + the sub, light-years beyond the usual HTiB. I love projects like this, so nice work on these.

                Here they are stock:


                And after:




                And the grills still fit...the grills look like a binding.



                John A.
                "Children play with b-a-l-l-s and sticks, men race, and real men race motorcycles"-John Surtees
                Emotiva UPA-2, USP-1, ERC-1 CD
                Yamaha KX-390 HX-Pro
                Pioneer TX-9500 II
                Yamaha YP-211 w/Grado GF3E+
                Statement Monitors
                Vintage system: Yamaha CR-420, Technics SL-PG100, Pioneer CT-F8282, Akai X-1800, Morel(T)/Vifa(W) DIY 2-way in .5 ft3
                Photos: http://custom.smugmug.com/Electronic...#4114714_cGTBx
                Blogs: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=2003

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                • #23
                  Re: New Wave buyouts

                  One of my 6 1/2" had a bad tinsel to voice coil connection. P-E said keep it and they sent me another. They take a while to break-in it seems. They have a decent sound in my room with a sub. I'm going to replace the stained white grill cloth with more of a stone color for my Mom...goes with her sofa/love seat. I have created a monster with her. New LED TV, her VCR, my old DVD/CD player, new re-furbed stereo receiver and unified remote from the cable company. She listens to the Southern Gospel CD's I've ripped for her all day long.

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                  • #24
                    Re: New Wave buyouts

                    Originally posted by DanP View Post
                    The current xo is near 1.5kHz, which is way too low for this poor tweeter. I'm having some decent luck leaving the xo in place and just adding a few components to it to get the xo above 3kHz, which avoids a lot of the tweeter distortion. One of these components (for full BSC), however, is a 4.0mH inductor which might be a little pricy for this project. All in all, it should end up being a decent sounding speaker for an extra $20 per side.
                    Hi, this thread has been quiet for a while, and I am wondering if you could please post your new results if you have any?
                    I picked up 4 to use as surrounds, and would be interested in the mods to improve them before I mount them up.
                    Thanks,
                    Tim

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: New Wave buyouts

                      I had to take a little break as my wife just delivered our 3rd baby girl 2 days ago. I plan on picking it back up soon and in fact, I'll try to work the components around the new group of buyout inductors to keep with the theme.

                      Dan
                      _____________________________
                      Tall Boys
                      NRNP Computer Sub
                      The Boxers
                      The Hurricanes
                      The Baronettes
                      Conneccentric
                      UX3

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        John H

                        Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: New Wave buyouts

                          Thanks John! Are these not giving you the results you were looking for? I haven't been able to listen to the modded xo yet.

                          Dan
                          _____________________________
                          Tall Boys
                          NRNP Computer Sub
                          The Boxers
                          The Hurricanes
                          The Baronettes
                          Conneccentric
                          UX3

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: New Wave buyouts

                            Originally posted by DanP View Post
                            I had to take a little break as my wife just delivered our 3rd baby girl 2 days ago. I plan on picking it back up soon and in fact, I'll try to work the components around the new group of buyout inductors to keep with the theme.

                            Dan
                            Congratulations Dan!
                            Thanks for everything that you have done so far.
                            Mine are the 5.25"ers, and I have been listening to them, but at normal listening levels.
                            They seem fine, until you turn up the volume.
                            I see that the tweeter comes reverse polarity, so did you switch yours back to positive?
                            I am wondering if that center divider actually creates a dual chamber reflex, and if you are leaving yours intact or not?
                            Thanks again for everything, and I will be watching for your results to be posted.
                            So far they do seem to be a good value, and I appreciate that you are putting this effort into keeping the project reasonable for beginners who are just getting into experimenting.

                            Tim

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: New Wave buyouts

                              Originally posted by iglow01gt View Post
                              Congratulations Dan!
                              Thanks for everything that you have done so far.
                              Mine are the 5.25"ers, and I have been listening to them, but at normal listening levels.
                              They seem fine, until you turn up the volume.
                              I see that the tweeter comes reverse polarity, so did you switch yours back to positive?
                              I am wondering if that center divider actually creates a dual chamber reflex, and if you are leaving yours intact or not?
                              Thanks again for everything, and I will be watching for your results to be posted.
                              So far they do seem to be a good value, and I appreciate that you are putting this effort into keeping the project reasonable for beginners who are just getting into experimenting.

                              Tim
                              Thank you sir!

                              It's possible the center divider creates a dual reflex loading like you said, but the port terminates inside the box right at the divider which would make it a very lossy dual reflex at best. I'm definitely going to open up that divider like John did, which will have the added benefit of allowing more space for damping material.

                              In terms of the polarity, I only listened to them as they came. As I said, reversing the polarity if the tweeter actually creates a smoother FR, but since the tweeter level is so high, the giant dip created by the tweeter connection as is probably sounds better subjectively. The modded xo will use the tweeter reversed from how they came, but will also knock down the tweeter level a good deal.

                              Dan
                              _____________________________
                              Tall Boys
                              NRNP Computer Sub
                              The Boxers
                              The Hurricanes
                              The Baronettes
                              Conneccentric
                              UX3

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: New Wave buyouts

                                IMO the 1K lump is to expensive to get rid of. I had a simple series x-o but it meant taking the tweeter to ~1,500 with bad phase tracking.
                                John H

                                Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                                Comment

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