Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

    Hi guys,

    First post here, and my first crossover build so I'm a little lost. I emailed Paul Carmody about the issue and he directed me here for assistance.

    Below are images of my ON Sensations crossovers (apologies for the size of the images). I was given the speakers by my GF for christmas and got as far as building half of the enclosures and testing the crossovers. When they didn't work I lost all motivation to keep the project going, but I would really love to get them completed now. I've assembled them as neatly as I could and followed the crossover circuit diagram as best as I could. I've checked and re-checked that everything is leading to the right place. When I attempt to test the XOs, I get absolutely no sound from the woofer, and a small amount of very distorted noise from the tweeter when I absolutely crank the amplifier. Tested on 2 different amps - neither of them work.

    I should say that I'm no expert. I've wired a few simple projects before though, and my soldering is good enough that I'm fairly certain that's not the issue. The fact that both XOs don't work leads me to the conclusion that I've made the same fatal flaw on both boards. I can't, for the life of me, figure out what that issue is.

    A few related questions:
    - Do any of these components have polarity?
    - Do the screw terminals need to be filed back in order for a proper connection to be made?
    - Would the fact that I have the larger coil screwed directly into the screw terminal (with no wire or solder to make the connection) have an effect on the functionality of the board?
    - Have I made a painfully obvious mistake that I'm just not seeing?

    I am in possession of a multimeter and can test the board/s and post results but I may need some pretty direct instructions as I'm not completely across the electronics world.

    Thanks in advance!


  • #2
    Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

    On the woofers coil, did you scrape off the end, exposing bare wire for the connection points?
    https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

      Yes, I did but perhaps not as much as I should have. Do I need to scrape the ends off of all components? Because I haven't done so...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

        Only on the coils. It sounds like you may have poor mechanical connections and/or cold solder joints.
        https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

          Hobo,

          It's pretty hard to tell what's going on in the pics, at least for me. I always have trouble with these diagrams anyway -- it took me 1 1/2 days to wire up my last set of 3-way crossovers!

          I would suggest doing this: First, disconnect the tweeter -- no sense blowing it out until you figure out what's going on.

          Take the woofer's ground (-) lead and temporarily attach to the amps (-) negative terminal. Take the woofers positive (+) lead and attach it to the other side
          of the first coil in the woofer's circuit where it is soldered to the other end of the .22 uF cap. (The .22 uF cap's two leads should be connected to the two leads of the 1.1 mH coil.)

          Connect the amps positive (+) lead to the positive (+) side of the crossovers amp input and make sure you have normal sound coming from the woofer.
          Doing this bypasses the 6.8 uF shunt cap on the woofer circuit.

          If this works and you have sound, then add the shunt cap to the circuit and test that out. Like isaeagle said, it could be that there isn't a good solder connection
          to the ends of the coils; they do usually come with a good amount of raw wire, though... but I suppose it could happen that a solder joint doesn't connect well enough.
          I do see some 'silver' on the ends of the coil connections in your pics, though. It also may be that you've made a connection from the positive leg to ground unintentionally.
          It's easy to do, I did it on my last crossover I just wired up. I looked like three times and still did it wrong... got both crossovers wired that far before I realized my mistake.

          I know having all the connections on the back side of the board cleans up the look, but it sure makes it hard to see what's going on... I really can't decipher it, sorry.
          If you have a multimeter with continuity check, you can check to see if your inductor solder joints are solid by attaching to a point on another inline component lead just after the solder joint.

          Sorry if this is no real help,
          Other side of board connections really befuddle me!
          TomZ
          *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
          *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

          *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

            I noticed you have 3 positive terminals but only two negative. It looks like the one by itself is for the woofer. Are you running the tweeter negative into the same negative terminal as the amp in negative connection?
            -Kerry

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

              In the first pick, what is the 1.5 cap connected to in about the middle of the board.
              Hard to tell, but something doesn't look right.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

                One other suggestion for future XO builds. Consider wiring on top of the board. I know a lot of people think it looks neater, but it makes checking / reviewing someone else's XO wiring virtually impossible.

                People always show the underside but give no reference to tell which edge is which. There's also no reason to post huge pictures. There are hundreds of free application to reduce the size of pictures for posting.
                I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
                OS MTMs http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=220388
                Swope TM http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=221818
                Econowave and Audio Nirvana AN10 fullrange http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=216841
                Imperial Russian Stouts http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=1#post1840444
                LECBOS. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=lecbos

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

                  At first glance it looks to me you have some wiring mistakes, but it is hard to tell from the photos. I am assuming the two terminal strip is your input? If so, it looks like the positive input goes through the large inductor to a 6.8uf cap that is connected to ground. It does not look like there is an actual connection between the input and woofer or tweeter outputs. Double check and follow your path from the input. From the schematic, it appears the 0.22uf and the 1.5uf caps should be also connected to the input with the large inductor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

                    Originally posted by fastbike1 View Post
                    One other suggestion for future XO builds. Consider wiring on top of the board. I know a lot of people think it looks neater, but it makes checking / reviewing someone else's XO wiring virtually impossible.

                    People always show the underside but give no reference to tell which edge is which. There's also no reason to post huge pictures. There are hundreds of free application to reduce the size of pictures for posting.


                    +10 on that! It's the main reason I make my XOs with wiring/components/solder joints on the top of the board. Super easy to check and troubleshoot.

                    The pics are so large I have difficulty using the bottom scroll bar to go back and forth to read the text or even see the whole pic to see if I can find any problems. I have issues with hand mobility, so any posts that require side scrolling using that bottom bar I have to pass on. That one is just me though. I have a couple jumper wires with alligator clips on each end that I use to jump components to find these kinds of problems. Bypassing a cap, resistor or coil, or a group of components makes it easier to isolate an area of trouble. Good luck, let us know what you find.


                    John A.
                    "Children play with b-a-l-l-s and sticks, men race, and real men race motorcycles"-John Surtees
                    Emotiva UPA-2, USP-1, ERC-1 CD
                    Yamaha KX-390 HX-Pro
                    Pioneer TX-9500 II
                    Yamaha YP-211 w/Grado GF3E+
                    Statement Monitors
                    Vintage system: Yamaha CR-420, Technics SL-PG100, Pioneer CT-F8282, Akai X-1800, Morel(T)/Vifa(W) DIY 2-way in .5 ft3
                    Photos: http://custom.smugmug.com/Electronic...#4114714_cGTBx
                    Blogs: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=2003

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

                      Pursuant to John A's idea - Hook up a short set of wires to a woofer. Start the music, fairly low volume. Hold them to your inputs - got sound? So far, so good. Amp is fine. Put - to common output, + to W input, still good? Keep - hooked up, move + one connection at a time down the circuit until something happens, like no output. There you are. Should find problem quick that way. Repeat on T circuit, still using woofer to check. Localize and it might get obvious. Good luck!
                      When you run make sure you run,
                      to something not away from, cause lies don't need an aeroplane to chase you anywhere.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

                        Originally posted by GTPlus View Post
                        At first glance it looks to me you have some wiring mistakes, but it is hard to tell from the photos. I am assuming the two terminal strip is your input? If so, it looks like the positive input goes through the large inductor to a 6.8uf cap that is connected to ground. It does not look like there is an actual connection between the input and woofer or tweeter outputs. Double check and follow your path from the input. From the schematic, it appears the 0.22uf and the 1.5uf caps should be also connected to the input with the large inductor.
                        Can you clarify exactly where the various inputs/outputs are (which terminals go to what?).

                        i'm reading it as the

                        first off, you definitely have at least one wiring mistake. each of the .22uF cap's leads should touch one of the large 1.1mH inductors. this doesn't happen in the circuit that i can see. one of these sides should touch the +ve input. The other should be the woofer+ (W+).

                        the point in the circuit where the 1.5uF cap and the .22uF cap connect, which is basically near the center of your board, should also be the +positive input lead. This does not appear to be the case.

                        with the disclaimer that it's past 1am and i haven't doublechecked all this, my suggestions would be as follows:
                        1) break what appears to be the positive input lead connecting to the edge-side of the .22uF. move that to the place where 1.5uF and .22uF connect (red circle in the pic).
                        2) take the cap lead that used to be connected to the red wire, and connect the two points circled in green. this reconnects the .22uF cap to the 1.1mH inductor.
                        3) the two yellow points should connect the other half of the .22 to the other end of the big inductor.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	os1 oWVbV6K.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	152.3 KB
ID:	1167563

                        if nothing else, this should get you partway there. your tweeter circuit looks largely correct to me, but it doesn't seem to be in the circuit. if things still sound horrible/missing/really quiet, re-scrape the inductor leads if they're not already silver-colored (tinned) where they connect. in some cases, you seem to have enough solder to have melted away the insulation, but i can't be 100% sure, and the screw-in connection is the most likely to need scraping (since it looks like you trimmed the leads down to keep things neat). if it's red, it's still got insulation. for the ones that are copper, the insulation is a clear paint, but things will look duller when you're through. razor knife, flathead screwdriver, etc is more than sufficient as long as you do the whole outside edge where it connects to something else.

                        going through this, i assumed the terminal of the 3 closest to the middle of the board (with the big red wire underneath) was input+, the tweeter was the other red next to it, and the woofer leads were the two terminal blocks on the other side (+ve is the one with the inductor).

                        hope that helps.
                        TM (RS125/TB25-302), TM RS150S / Vifa BC25SC06, RS150-4 / Vifa ML-TL, 3CR-AL Ultra Budget: Electric Blue TM, TMM, MTM, Dragonflies , Mounties: Mini HT Satellite,sub for minions

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help: Issues with Overnight Sensations Crossover

                          I always find it helpful to number all the junction (solder) points on the schematic and on the assembled crossover. Then I can count the number of leads that should be soldered together at each junction and also verify that every component terminates at two numbered points as shown in the schematic.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X