Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

    Originally posted by tyger23 View Post
    *Snip...
    Sounds like you and I are much alike in both the way we voice, and I assume based on how you explained your overall sound preferences we're alike in the end sound we prefer as well. My reference speakers are my ER18s, and I was very fortunate that these were one of my first builds because their sound is incredibly neutral- not overly bright or boomy, just a very detailed and natural sound. So they're great reference speakers .
    "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
    "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

      In the end, when you think there's a science to speaker building and all you have to do is apply the science, it's really an art that is only beautiful in the eyes of the beholder. The voicing process, according to all the posts here, becomes a subjective process about what sounds "right" to the designer. There are bright sounds, and laid back sounds, and everything in between. Back in the days when I used to buy commercial speakers, my reference point has always been live music, mainly classical concertos. So the moral of the story is, I got to be happy with my designs, because what sounds good to me may not sound bright enough, crisp enough, or laid back enough to you, given of course, that the science was applied accurately and comprehensively.
      Some people are addicted to Vicodin. I'm addicted to speaker building.

      The Chorales - Usher 8945A/Vifa XT25TG Build
      ESP Project 101 Lateral MOSFET Amplifier
      LM4780 Parallel Chipamp
      Sonata Soundbar Project
      The Renditions - Active/Passive Towers

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

        Originally posted by hongrn View Post
        In the end, when you think there's a science to speaker building and all you have to do is apply the science, it's really an art that is only beautiful in the eyes of the beholder. The voicing process, according to all the posts here, becomes a subjective process about what sounds "right" to the designer. There are bright sounds, and laid back sounds, and everything in between. Back in the days when I used to buy commercial speakers, my reference point has always been live music, mainly classical concertos. So the moral of the story is, I got to be happy with my designs, because what sounds good to me may not sound bright enough, crisp enough, or laid back enough to you, given of course, that the science was applied accurately and comprehensively.
        Hong man oh man, my head hurts already, stop. After I posted my gut response to Jeff's great commentary on voicing I had a pause. Do I value the range of 1000 to 4000 hz more because it really is that critical (more than other ranges) or because (wait for it) I have been trained to zone in there because that is the range where crossovers generally lie. *mind blown*
        Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
        Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

          Originally posted by hongrn View Post
          In the end, when you think there's a science to speaker building and all you have to do is apply the science, it's really an art that is only beautiful in the eyes of the beholder. The voicing process, according to all the posts here, becomes a subjective process about what sounds "right" to the designer. There are bright sounds, and laid back sounds, and everything in between. Back in the days when I used to buy commercial speakers, my reference point has always been live music, mainly classical concertos. So the moral of the story is, I got to be happy with my designs, because what sounds good to me may not sound bright enough, crisp enough, or laid back enough to you, given of course, that the science was applied accurately and comprehensively.
          Beautifully said.
          DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
          The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
          The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
          The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
          AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

            I guess I have a house sound. It's not something I do intentionally, but I know how I like speakers to sound. So when voicing they tend to have a similar tonal balance. They don't sound the same of course because different drivers and topologies just aren't going to sound the same no matter how hard one might try. But the overall tonal balance is something that ends up kind of the same on all my designs. And since I do this hobby for fun and build speakers for myself I'm not under any constraint to make them sound any different than what I find most appealing. I generally get pretty positive feedback at DIY events so I figure I can't be too far off the mark.
            Craig

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

              Originally posted by hongrn View Post
              In the end, when you think there's a science to speaker building and all you have to do is apply the science, it's really an art that is only beautiful in the eyes of the beholder. The voicing process, according to all the posts here, becomes a subjective process about what sounds "right" to the designer. There are bright sounds, and laid back sounds, and everything in between. Back in the days when I used to buy commercial speakers, my reference point has always been live music, mainly classical concertos. So the moral of the story is, I got to be happy with my designs, because what sounds good to me may not sound bright enough, crisp enough, or laid back enough to you, given of course, that the science was applied accurately and comprehensively.
              Now here's a chap who found 'his own voicing'. Congrats!
              Live in Southern N.E.? check out the CT Audio Society web site.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                Would each designers "house sound" favor certain music types or recording qualities? Ie. Do you design a speaker for rock, classical, banjo, electronic? to be more or less forgiving of a poor recording?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                  Originally posted by corradizo View Post
                  Would each designers "house sound" favor certain music types or recording qualities? Ie. Do you design a speaker for rock, classical, banjo, electronic? to be more or less forgiving of a poor recording?
                  The answer to all your questions is a qualified yes.
                  Do you like vanilla, chocolate, or strawberry?
                  Live in Southern N.E.? check out the CT Audio Society web site.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                    Originally posted by corradizo View Post
                    Would each designers "house sound" favor certain music types or recording qualities? Ie. Do you design a speaker for rock, classical, banjo, electronic? to be more or less forgiving of a poor recording?
                    Generally, yes. That is something that some designers will take into account. At a minimum, you'll usually see a "qualifier" after the design is built. For example, Paul designed his Hitmakers specifically to be forgiving of poor recordings. My Aria design is very much the opposite.

                    The difference is that the clearly recorded material will appear much more detailed in one design over the other. The negative is that poorly recorded or compressed music may sound horrible.

                    In general, aluminum cones, aluminum domes, and some ribbons are very detailed and unforgiving. Paper cones and silk domes tend to be much warmer and better for compressed music. Obviously this is a general stereotype and there are exceptions across the board.

                    My DARPA Jr design uses an aluminum woofer with a paper mid and silk dome tweet. This was chosen specifically to take advantage of tight bass (aluminum woofer) while being more forgiving of poorly recorded music.
                    DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                    The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                    The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                    The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                    AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                      Originally posted by corradizo View Post
                      Would each designers "house sound" favor certain music types or recording qualities? Ie. Do you design a speaker for rock, classical, banjo, electronic? to be more or less forgiving of a poor recording?
                      I can only speak for myself, but definitely not. I like far too many musical types (from hardcore punk to early small ensemble classical and much in between) to get away with that. I would have a hard time recommending any speaker voiced for a particular genre at the expense of others. The intent of the "Harmon" house sound was to provide a signature that tried to avoid favouring any one genre. This is the idea behind neutrality. You can try to voice for neutrality, and that's my goal. On a good day, you get closer than on others. Its much easier to voice a speaker to sound awesome with one type of music than making it sound really good with many varied types (just my opinion based on my personal experience tweaking designs).

                      Just wanted to make a couple other comments based on other posts. The Toole/Olive studies have to be read carefully. They found that rooms affect absolute level of preference (ie scores were higher in one room than another, for the same speaker), but that relative ranking between speakers were the same in two different rooms tested. This was by no means exhaustive and looked at a few particular speakers and a couple rooms only. What they never studied was the improvement gainable by optimizing any one of those designs for a particular room by making design changes targeted for that room. To me, that is the real value of power behind voicing, and what I mainly use it for. Its also the REAL power behind DIY. Why buy a speaker that's designed as a compromise over many room types when you can design your own that laser targets the needs of your room? The trick and secret sauce is understanding how to change targets based on room types/conditions.

                      Olive/Toole also didn't run their experiments in any sort of a golden room, as implied earlier. They used an IEC room which is meant to be "typical". I have no idea how the IEC determined that. I had an IEC room built for a project once, and its really not all that typical. For one, its a completely closed room, and except for dedicated installations, the great majority of people don't listen in closed rooms, they are open to a one degree or another. I also looked into the modal behaviour of the IEC room and its really nothing special. If I was to design a room from scratch for most pleasing distribution of room modes (and I have designed and had built a couple), I would have used different dimensions. Not that this really impacts the voicing discussion, just suggesting to not assume that the room used in the Toole/Olive study was any sort of golden ideal.

                      (PS Thanks Paul! I always enjoy your posts)

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                        Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                        You get a gold star. When people talk about flat frequency response they are thinking one dimensionally. A speaker may be flat on one axis and have real problems off axis. I try to take that into consideration. As a result, over the years, I have developed a particular "recipe " in crossover design that I have found to sound the most natural and coherent to me. I tend to use this recipe in most of my designs. From the older Continuum to the new Spirit Wind the crossover approach is very similar, and this is case for most speakers in between.


                        Two speakers may have the identical on-axis response, but differences in crossover point, slopes, phase tracking, and the tonal balance of the power response will make them sound very different. In my case, most of my speakers share these design characteristics so they tend to sound very similar.
                        Wolf and I cook with very different recipes, as an example, so even if both of us target a flat axial response our speakers will likely still sound different , and each will reflect our individual design methods.

                        In addition to all of this, some people prefer a speaker that has a warmer balance while someone else may like one that is brighter and airier. How baffle step is handled and preferred bass tuning all factor into it as well.
                        Jeff can you say more about what your "recipe" is? And amplify how you go about designing the power response?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                          I'm going to reply to a tag from below here (tag: "jeff designs wolfs"). This is plainly absurd. Jeff does not design my speaker projects. The work is all from me. I come up with the idea and approach myself and pick drivers myself. I measure the parameters myself, model the box myself, trace or measure the FR myself, setup the files myself, import them directly into Jeff's excel sheets myself, find the xover filter combination I like myself, and then build it myself, voice it myself, and finish and enjoy it myself.

                          Just like anyone else on this forum, I may occasionally have a question that needs answered, or require a confirmation in a line of thought. Jeff has provided confirmation of my thoughts and correction when asked, but has not actually designed anything for me pretty much since I built the original WM1 monkey coffins back in 1999-2002. This means that the Attitudes, Stance, and Nephila are my work alone, as are many others. In fact, The last help I received was the network design for the 3CR-Ti from Curt Campbell (2006), and maybe a TL model from Paul K around the same time frame. My first solo xover design (from simulation) was the Mn-14 around 2007. I had a lot of help and direction, but the work was in fact mine. I've done several projects by ear that were before, at, and after this time frame. I do not pawn off portions of my builds to someone else any more, so the tag below is plainly preposterous. I also don't know why someone would hide behind a tag and state untruths when they likely do not know the whole story.

                          I've been building speakers since 97, and designing some fully on my own since around 2003. Please stop this spreading of falsehoods and rumors. All it is, is trolling and shows a great disregard for human decency.

                          Whomever you are, you really should be ashamed of yourself,
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                            Ben, I'm pretty sure everyone knows that you design your own speakers. Don't let a childish tag get to you. In fact, I contrasted our approach to crossovers because they are different. But that doesn't mean your speakers aren't excellent, because some of them are very good indeed. It's just that I tried to bring you up in the ways of the master, but you chose your own way. ;)
                            Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                              Yes- I know it was you, Matt....
                              Ben, just wanted to publicly address the ridiculous PM you sent me (title of the PM is in the quote above) so I can be sure you aren't saying anything behind my back. I haven't ever tagged anyone or anything on this forum before, ever. And if you doubt that, I'd gladly let the forum admin check that for you if that's possible. I didn't even see the tag you're referring to, but how's about asking me if I actually did that before making such a dumb assumption ;). I have nothing to hide, and if I had something to say I'd gladly say it straight to you. This pi$$ing match between us has gotten a little out of control, and just to be clear so it doesn't spiral any further, don't ever assume I'd say something that wasn't true. Of coarse I'll ask some questions based on what I'd heard elsewhere, but I wouldn't spread rumors to purposefully try to stain someone's reputation. I will say that I find it ironic that you can so freely talk down to others, but if someone says something negative towards you it turns into some ridiculous, elementary school girl fight. I have nothing to hide Ben, so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't blow these things out of proportion.
                              "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                              "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: "House sound" Do the designers here have a "house sound"?

                                Wow. Disappointing. Anyone that has met Wolf would hear his passion and know that he does all of his own design work.
                                - Ryan

                                CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
                                CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X