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NE225W+PM180+ViaWave Design & Build Thread

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  • #61
    I'd leave a reveal around the grill to show the hardwood sides a bit. I'd also add dimension, making the grill frame thicker and chamfering the sides 25 degrees or so. I'm not feeling the white either.......and with kids, dirty hands swiped across the white fabric would bother me as much as a pushed in dust cap so......lol

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    • #62
      Cool speakers. I think they have a clean, contemporary, kind of industrial look to them, so I would not use any traditional grill at all. I would do something much more contemporary or industrial looking, like a mounting cleat top and bottom or the baffle and installing 1/4"-3/8" dia. aluminum or stainless steel dowels between on the outsides, top to bottom. The image attached is what I'm getting at with the cleat, looking from the top. The outside dowels could be be wrapped by a sleeve of speaker fabric. You would push the dowels down through the cleat into the fabric sleeve and then into the bottom cleat, slightly stretching the fabric to hold it in place. This would allow the fabric to be changed if ruined by the kids and let the drivers remain visible from the sides, as well as the entire laminated portion of the sides. I wouldn't cover any of that up, just cover most of the baffle.

      Alternatively, additional, perhaps narrower diameter dowels, perhaps 1/8" dia. could be installed between the outside ones for an even more industrial look, while allowing complete visibility through to the drivers, rather than hiding them. Place them just close enough to keep fingers from being able to reach the dust caps and to keep flying things from reaching the cones.
      Dan N.

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      • #63
        Yeah the white doesn't do it for me either. I see PE has 19" wide black 3/8" foam, maybe you could use that, remove it for serious listening?

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        • #64
          Beautiful build. Absolutely. I like the white grill.
          Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

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          • #65
            I think the white looks better with the light colored sides that look like a water based finish rather than the yellowing oil based type. It gives it a modern look. It just seems that the grill cloth is too thin. Maybe you can try re-wrapping the frames and stretch the fabric less when you do it. I've seen white grill cloth that covers the speakers underneath, so maybe you just stretched it too tight. Maybe something in a gray or silver would work slightly better than the white?
            -Kerry

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            • #66
              Good Morning!

              Well I've spent a lot of time staring at the speakers trying to decide on how to proceed wit the grills. The next option I'm going to try is doing 3 individual round grills for the 2 woofers and the mid. I figure there is no grill needed on the tweeter given that it's both recessed in the waveguide and covered by a screen. i think this will be the best option to keep with the aesthetic theme of the project - kind of a minimalist modern look, while not covering any of the end grain. One of the things that bothered me about the previous grill design was that from the listening position you couldn't see any of the wood.

              My plan is to use .03' perforated steel for the grills sprayed with the same matte black as the feet. I plan to cover the outer edge with a very small black rubber edge trim, and then magnetically attach to the driver mounting screws.

              What do you guys think is the easiest way to cut the perforated steel into a circle? I suppose a purpose built die and an industrial punch press or CNC plasma cutter would be the best option, but the budget doesn't allow for such luxuries. For now, I'm going to attempt to mark the circle with a marker and then cut it out with a snips with the hopes that any minor imperfections will be hidden by the edge trim. I'm thinking this will be easier than building a jig and using a metal cutting blade in the bandsaw or jig saw.

              Cheers!

              Joe

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              • #67
                This is a really nice looking project. I think you're safest using snips rather than a power tool to cut on your lines and have more control. As you mention, edge trim can cover any imperfections.

                Question about the NE225W drivers. How did yours measure compared to specs? I am considering a build with these drivers and wondering how close I can get using published specs for purposes of comparing drivers. Obviously, once a driver is chosen, I will have to measure my drivers given normal variances.

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                • #68
                  Good Evening!

                  I finally have another update on this project. I wasn't able to get a perfect cut of the perforated .03" steel for the grills, so I had some 1/16" steel rings cut, which will act as a frame for the grills. I am going to try sandwiching some steel mesh between two rings for each driver, then paint it all matte black and hold it in place with magnets. Attached are a few pictures for "proof of concept". I'm optimistic this solution will be functional, achievable, and aesthetically pleasing.

                  Also, I've now got my DATS, OmniMic, and Xsim up and running. I've had time to take some measurements and play around in Xsim with the results, but I plan to take some time to ensure I know how to get good measurements before I invest too much time in Xsim.

                  Cheers!

                  Joe

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                  • #69
                    Maybe sandwich the white grill cloth between said steel rings? ...after the steel rings are sent out to be copper plated, of course... 😎
                    A mains
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                    • #70
                      Alright! The #20 stainless mesh is on the way for the grill inserts, so while I'm waiting for that, it's time to work on the crossover.

                      I had some (quiet) time to spend taking measurements, and they seem to have turned out OK, with the exception of a bump around 60hz from ambient noise - neighbor mowing the lawn, fridge, laptop fan - not sure.

                      I spent about an hour playing around in Xsim, and one problem persisted in nearly every permutation I tried - extremely low impedance in the midrange. I'm sure the experts on this forum will take one look and see what I'm doing wrong, but it has escaped me, thus far.

                      Let me know your thoughts!

                      Best regards,

                      Joe

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                      • #71
                        Ok, this one is a little better - minimum impedance of 3.5 ohms.

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                        • #72
                          Most of the time, too low of an impedance (esp. in a 3-way) is caused by too much driver overlap. Try to push your Fcs apart to closer to 300-400 and 3kHz.
                          Also, ideally you'd like each crossing driver to be down -6dB (-3dB MINimum) at Fc. Your last two sims both show (phase) trouble with the mid/tweeter cross. Your final attempt (so far) is better, but still can be improved. In your previous version you can tell you've got poor phase alignment by the way your summed response dips below each driver's individual response ("detrimental" summing). Often, to make a meaningful phase shift, you'd generally have to raise or lower the offending filter by an order (the HP on the tweeter, or/(sometimes AND) the LP portion of the mid's BP.

                          Also (IMO) most often the mid's impedance can be held up a bit by running the series components together (cap & coil), followed by the shunts (to gnd.). I don't think ALL the sim softwares out there support that topology, but it would be nice if they did.

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                          • #73
                            I don't like either one of this x-overs, to be honest.
                            The first version shows woofers to be approximately 4 db lower than the rest of the compliment. So the important question is, how did you measure and summed up woofers for the sim? Was baffle step added as well?
                            Second x-over allows the tweeter to work in to too low of the range. It's only around 10 db down at 1000hz. Not the best choice for a ribbon or even many domes.
                            What I would suggest is to lower the output of the mid by couple of db and rework the filter for the tweeter. Push it to 2800hz or so with your second order and add parallel notch at 1700hz. Play with the shunt resistor on that notch so there's no impedance deep. This way you can get good phase response between mid and the tweeter and stay away from impedance issues.
                            http://www.diy-ny.com/

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                            • #74
                              Chris:

                              Thank you for taking the time to provide some feedback! I've taken a pass at incorporating some of the solutions outlined above into a new model.

                              Cheers!

                              Joe

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                              • #75
                                Is the Viawave comfortable with a 2k crossover?
                                "It is only Scrooge McDuck and others with a personality disorder who have money as their goal"

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