DC200-8 8" Woofer & DC28F-8

[trevorg]

I was thinking of building a pair of speakers using these drivers but i have a few concerns. One is that since im using an 8" driver that i might be lacking in the midrange section and sincfe my amp only dose 100watt max that i will be able to drive these suckers. Although i was looking and the 8" woofer only hase .9db higher slp rating then the DC160-8 woofer and it only wants 10watts more. I know that right now i can set my amp to full range and it can bottom out these speakers when their playing full range and i can warm up the dust caps if that means anything. If i do build these speakers will i be lacking in the midrange section or will it be about the same as the BR-1's and will i see any change as in volume out put. I hope to see more bass and have somthing that i can play full range with no worries.

[trevorg]

> I was thinking of building a pair of
> speakers using these drivers but i have a
> few concerns. One is that since im using an
> 8" driver that i might be lacking in
> the midrange section and sincfe my amp only
> dose 100watt max that i will be able to
> drive these suckers. Although i was looking
> and the 8" woofer only hase .9db higher
> slp rating then the DC160-8 woofer and it
> only wants 10watts more. I know that right
> now i can set my amp to full range and it
> can bottom out these speakers when their
> playing full range and i can warm up the
> dust caps if that means anything. If i do
> build these speakers will i be lacking in
> the midrange section or will it be about the
> same as the BR-1's and will i see any change
> as in volume out put. I hope to see more
> bass and have somthing that i can play full
> range with no worries.

Sorry Just to clear up a couple of things. First off the speakers i have now are a set of BR-1's
Second what is the impedance of the nohas 8's ( my amp wont take anything below 6ohms

[unknownuser]

> Sorry Just to clear up a couple of things.
> First off the speakers i have now are a set
> of BR-1's
> Second what is the impedance of the nohas
> 8's ( my amp wont take anything below 6ohms

DC200 are not suitable for 2-ways. If you want a good 8" with a sold bass AND usable in 2-way design, check out Peerless 850136 CSX. It's relatively easy to work with as a bonus (at least the 5" and 7" versions are). Another option would be RS225S, but you need to know what you're doing to get a good sound out of those.

Even though it cost more than double the cost of DC200, the sound quality more than makes up for it.




(Originally posted by: kyle)

[Chris Roemer]

> DC200 are not suitable for 2-ways.

You're absolutely wrong on this.

If you
> want a good 8" with a sold bass AND
> usable in 2-way design, check out Peerless
> 850136 CSX. It's relatively easy to work
> with as a bonus (at least the 5" and
> 7" versions are). Another option would
> be RS225S, but you need to know what you're
> doing to get a good sound out of those.

> Even though it cost more than double the
> cost of DC200, the sound quality more than
> makes up for it.

In the last 5 years I've worked on 10 pairs of speakers. One of the first pair I built (before I knew ANYTHING about crossovers) used these drivers (275-070/295-310). These remain my favorite speakers to this day. I've yet to hear Mark Knopfler (Dire Straits), the B52's, or Big Bad Voodoo Daddy reach as astonishingly deep. The highs are brilliant (a little TOO bright, probably) and they image very well. They almost sound exactly like BR-1's, but can go almost a half octave lower. With more cone area and Xmax they can sometimes shock you.

I do plan on upgrading my xo's (already have the parts). I'd recommend a 1.7 cf ported box, about a 9" wide tower shape, trying to get the tweeters up near seated ear level (32"?). If you use a 3" port, roundover the inside of both ends, otherwise they CAN chuff. I'm using an HK amp with 100 RMS/ch and the clip lights will barely flicker just short of bottoming out. They work very well for music, but demanding HT bass will bottom 'em out (bang, bang). That's why a built a 12" Quatro last year. Actually, I've used the Q12 with Dayton's 6" Classics, and if you've got no good reason to avoid a sub, I'd use that with your BR-1's.

OTOH, I also plan on building the "Dayton 8's" (two 8" Classics with the -070 tweeter per cab - but they ARE 4 ohms) someday.

[trevorg]

> You're absolutely wrong on this.

> If you

> In the last 5 years I've worked on 10 pairs
> of speakers. One of the first pair I built
> (before I knew ANYTHING about crossovers)
> used these drivers (275-070/295-310). These
> remain my favorite speakers to this day.
> I've yet to hear Mark Knopfler (Dire
> Straits), the B52's, or Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
> reach as astonishingly deep. The highs are
> brilliant (a little TOO bright, probably)
> and they image very well. They almost sound
> exactly like BR-1's, but can go almost a
> half octave lower. With more cone area and
> Xmax they can sometimes shock you.

> I do plan on upgrading my xo's (already have
> the parts). I'd recommend a 1.7 cf ported
> box, about a 9" wide tower shape,
> trying to get the tweeters up near seated
> ear level (32"?). If you use a 3"
> port, roundover the inside of both ends,
> otherwise they CAN chuff. I'm using an HK
> amp with 100 RMS/ch and the clip lights will
> barely flicker just short of bottoming out.
> They work very well for music, but demanding
> HT bass will bottom 'em out (bang, bang).
> That's why a built a 12" Quatro last
> year. Actually, I've used the Q12 with
> Dayton's 6" Classics, and if you've got
> no good reason to avoid a sub, I'd use that
> with your BR-1's.

> OTOH, I also plan on building the
> "Dayton 8's" (two 8" Classics
> with the -070 tweeter per cab - but they ARE
> 4 ohms) someday.

how many ohms are your first set of speakers using the 275-070 and the 295-310. This would be helpful. All i need to know is that will they properly run on my amp. it dose 100watt max a channel says it's rated for speakers 6ohms and up.

[unknownuser]

> You're absolutely wrong on this.

> If you

> In the last 5 years I've worked on 10 pairs
> of speakers. One of the first pair I built
> (before I knew ANYTHING about crossovers)
> used these drivers (275-070/295-310).

I should have known that someone's going to get upset over this. You must have been lucky. The midrange on those and it's ittle brother 295-300 is at best mediocre, thanks to fairly high level of distortion and cone breakup. I've heard that the 10" version is actually quite good, but I don't have any experience with those.

> These remain my favorite speakers to this day.
> I've yet to hear Mark Knopfler (Dire
> Straits), the B52's, or Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
> reach as astonishingly deep.

I've never disputed the bass on those drivers. Pretty much all Dayton bass and midbass drivers have pretty good bass. My criteria for suitability of a two way has nothing to do with bass. It only has to do with ability to integrate cleanly with an appropriate tweeter with good power response. If I bypass the lowpass filter on on my 12" Shiva and stick a tweeter on it, would it meet your criteria of a two-way? I can guarantee that it will go lower than your DC200.

> The highs are
> brilliant (a little TOO bright, probably)
> and they image very well. They almost sound
> exactly like BR-1's, but can go almost a
> half octave lower.

They have minimal output over 3KHz. Only high that you're hearing from the driver is probably the cone breakup; the rest should be coming from the tweeter. Fact that they image well mean that you've got the crossover done right. I really would like to see the measurement of your speaker... especially the CSD and distortion figures.

> With more cone area and
> Xmax they can sometimes shock you.

I'm not sure what your threshold for "shock" is, but with more cone area and xmax, ANYTHING will produce significant bass. This is a property of ALL drivers, not just the DC200.

Any case, my experience with them are quite different. After looking at the CSD plots, distortion, and the initial frequency response measurements, just I didn't see a point in messing around with them anymore. The fact that they are fairly inefficient doesn't help. Can most of those problem be fixed in the crossover? The answer is yes, but why spend so much for crossover parts on a cheap driver? So I made it into multimedia sub and gave it a friend. It actually worked pretty well as a replacement PC sub.

> I do plan on upgrading my xo's (already have
> the parts). I'd recommend a 1.7 cf ported
> box, about a 9" wide tower shape,
> trying to get the tweeters up near seated
> ear level (32"?). If you use a 3"
> port, roundover the inside of both ends,
> otherwise they CAN chuff. I'm using an HK
> amp with 100 RMS/ch and the clip lights will
> barely flicker just short of bottoming out.
> They work very well for music, but demanding
> HT bass will bottom 'em out (bang, bang).
> That's why a built a 12" Quatro last
> year. Actually, I've used the Q12 with
> Dayton's 6" Classics, and if you've got
> no good reason to avoid a sub, I'd use that
> with your BR-1's.

> OTOH, I also plan on building the
> "Dayton 8's" (two 8" Classics
> with the -070 tweeter per cab - but they ARE
> 4 ohms) someday.



(Originally posted by: kyle)

[Chris Roemer]

> how many ohms are your first set of speakers
> using the 275-070 and the 295-310. This
> would be helpful. All i need to know is that
> will they properly run on my amp. it dose
> 100watt max a channel says it's rated for
> speakers 6ohms and up.

They're 8 ohm nominal. Cross them around 2k with a Zobel on the -310 and you can avoid the 3k breakup that's made Kyle apparently not like them. If you want more efficiency, check out the "D8's". They really rock, but they're big. Mine will be 3.4 cf when I get around to them.

[trevorg]

> They're 8 ohm nominal. Cross them around 2k
> with a Zobel on the -310 and you can avoid
> the 3k breakup that's made Kyle apparently
> not like them. If you want more efficiency,
> check out the "D8's". They really
> rock, but they're big. Mine will be 3.4 cf
> when I get around to them.

One last questions. More help on the zoble. i know what they are i just need help desighning one or could i just use an 8ohm Lpad instead. Can you desighn me a box that isnt massivesly huge but can still yet play pretty low. i trust your judgment on the box size. I could try desighn a box but more than likly i will get carried away and make the box too big i would trust others to help.

[Chris Roemer]

> One last questions. More help on the zoble.
> i know what they are i just need help
> desighning one or could i just use an 8ohm
> Lpad instead. Can you desighn me a box that
> isnt massivesly huge but can still yet play
> pretty low. i trust your judgment on the box
> size. I could try desighn a box but more
> than likly i will get carried away and make
> the box too big i would trust others to
> help.

Here ya go:

Box: 3/4" MDF, or even PB works fine. Line the inside with convoluted foam (Wal-Mart mattress pad works great). These are outside dimensions (inside will be 1-1/2" shorter) for a 1.7 cf ported tower. Width = 9", Depth = 13", Height = 35.5". Mount the tweeter centered so the top edge is 1" from the outside top of the cab. Mount the 8" woofer centered below it (the closer the better). The port tube is 3" i.d. and 9.25" total length. Mount it centered below the woofer so its center is 13" above the bottom (floor). If you have a router, roundover both inside ends of the tube (1/4" roundover bit) or at least the inside of the front of the tube at the baffle.

Crossover: 2nd order HP with L-pad.
series cap: 5.6 uF poly
shunt coil: 0.50 mH 20# (Jantzen is good)
series resistor: 4.7 ohm
parallel resistor: 7.5 ohm

1st order LP with Zobel.
series coil: 0.50 mH 18# (Jantzen)
Zobel cap: 47 uF npe (like $1)
Zobel resistor: 4 ohm