***DIY Dayton Pics. 80 Pictures**** *PIC*

**chrism** · 10-09-2005, 08:09 AM

Posted below is a link to the pics I took of DIY Dayton. There are a few projects that are unidentified. Please forgive me for forgetting to whom they belonged to. If someone knows, please let me know so I can fix the picture tags.

All in all, I had a very good time. There were many excellent projects. Some that come to mind were Jim Griffin's arrays. His hotel room looked like NASA with all of the equipment he brought along. Darren had an unplayed set of arrays he brought that once dialed in by Christian were awesome. Paul K had a very nice set of 3 ways. These were one of my personal favorites. The "Olives" were the most visually interesting and unconventional project IMHO. There were no bad or even marginal projects this year.

Matt Olsen brought 2 sets of DIY amps. Ed brought a very nice DIY amp also. I think a DIY amp is now in my future.

I had the privelege of getting to do Pjay's normal job of MC'ing the event. We used a test disk Jim Griffin brought back from the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest as well as a disk brought by Matt Olsen.

I saw many familiar as well as a few new faces this year. The Noid made a cameo appearance. Hopefully he will have an opportunity to return next year. I hope to see many more people next year. For those of you who normally attend and didn't, I would have to say that you missed out on some great projects and wonderful discussions.

My wife Connie was the only female to attend this year. Everyone should be encouraged to bring their spouses next year. She actually asked me to build Jim Griffin's bipole full range project after hearing them. DIY Dayton definitely helped my SAF of speakerbuilding. Could it help you to be able to build bigger and better projects and stay out of the dog house? I bet it could. She didn't even flinch when we went over to PE for our shopping trip. She says she will submit a project next year. Everyone should look out because she is one heck of an artist and woodworker and will likely come up with something very different and awesome looking.

All in all, it was a great couple of days. PE was a gracious host. Hopefully, they will keep on hosting this event.

**chrism** · 10-09-2005, 08:11 AM

Provided Link: DIY Dayton Pics

Here is the link. Sorry about that.

**jdm** · 10-09-2005, 09:51 AM

> Posted below is a link to the pics I took of
> DIY Dayton. There are a few projects that
> are unidentified. Please forgive me for
> forgetting to whom they belonged to. If
> someone knows, please let me know so I can
> fix the picture tags.

> All in all, I had a very good time. There
> were many excellent projects. Some that come
> to mind were Jim Griffin's arrays. His hotel
> room looked like NASA with all of the
> equipment he brought along. Darren had an
> unplayed set of arrays he brought that once
> dialed in by Christian were awesome. Paul K
> had a very nice set of 3 ways. These were
> one of my personal favorites. The
> "Olives" were the most visually
> interesting and unconventional project IMHO.
> There were no bad or even marginal projects
> this year.

> Matt Olsen brought 2 sets of DIY amps. Ed
> brought a very nice DIY amp also. I think a
> DIY amp is now in my future.

> I had the privelege of getting to do Pjay's
> normal job of MC'ing the event. We used a
> test disk Jim Griffin brought back from the
> Rocky Mountain Audio Fest as well as a disk
> brought by Matt Olsen.

> I saw many familiar as well as a few new
> faces this year. The Noid made a cameo
> appearance. Hopefully he will have an
> opportunity to return next year. I hope to
> see many more people next year. For those of
> you who normally attend and didn't, I would
> have to say that you missed out on some
> great projects and wonderful discussions.

> My wife Connie was the only female to attend
> this year. Everyone should be encouraged to
> bring their spouses next year. She actually
> asked me to build Jim Griffin's bipole full
> range project after hearing them. DIY Dayton
> definitely helped my SAF of speakerbuilding.
> Could it help you to be able to build bigger
> and better projects and stay out of the dog
> house? I bet it could. She didn't even
> flinch when we went over to PE for our
> shopping trip. She says she will submit a
> project next year. Everyone should look out
> because she is one heck of an artist and
> woodworker and will likely come up with
> something very different and awesome
> looking.

> All in all, it was a great couple of days.
> PE was a gracious host. Hopefully, they will
> keep on hosting this event.

Hi nice job takeing pics. I was looking at a

speaker and wanted to know waht kind of

fullrange it was and, how it sounded? It is on

the first page called Olive anyone? It is a

green round shape with a driver with a red dust

cap. Cool but, creepy looking.Thanks jm

**chadg** · 10-09-2005, 10:12 AM

Provided Link: Olive Project

Hehe, cool, but creepy. I wondered if it would come across as creepy to some. When i first started the project a lot of people wanted me to paint them up like eye *****.

I need to find a source for RED grill fabric so i dont have to paint the driver.

Here is a link to the project. Right now i just have pages and pictures of the build. I will get more details on the actual box, driver etc this week.

In a nut shell:
Full Range Drivers: TB 881, Sealed box 1.7 liters
Sub: 5.25" Dayton Classic in 22 liter ported box, Keiga 2.1 media amplifier.

**rudy** · 10-09-2005, 10:16 AM

**Paul K.** · 10-09-2005, 11:10 AM

Great picture Chris and you did a bang-up job as emcee. Thanks, also, for the nice comments on my speakers, the TriLangles.
Paul K.

> Posted below is a link to the pics I took of
> DIY Dayton. There are a few projects that
> are unidentified. Please forgive me for
> forgetting to whom they belonged to. If
> someone knows, please let me know so I can
> fix the picture tags.

> All in all, I had a very good time. There
> were many excellent projects. Some that come
> to mind were Jim Griffin's arrays. His hotel
> room looked like NASA with all of the
> equipment he brought along. Darren had an
> unplayed set of arrays he brought that once
> dialed in by Christian were awesome. Paul K
> had a very nice set of 3 ways. These were
> one of my personal favorites. The
> "Olives" were the most visually
> interesting and unconventional project IMHO.
> There were no bad or even marginal projects
> this year.

> Matt Olsen brought 2 sets of DIY amps. Ed
> brought a very nice DIY amp also. I think a
> DIY amp is now in my future.

> I had the privelege of getting to do Pjay's
> normal job of MC'ing the event. We used a
> test disk Jim Griffin brought back from the
> Rocky Mountain Audio Fest as well as a disk
> brought by Matt Olsen.

> I saw many familiar as well as a few new
> faces this year. The Noid made a cameo
> appearance. Hopefully he will have an
> opportunity to return next year. I hope to
> see many more people next year. For those of
> you who normally attend and didn't, I would
> have to say that you missed out on some
> great projects and wonderful discussions.

> My wife Connie was the only female to attend
> this year. Everyone should be encouraged to
> bring their spouses next year. She actually
> asked me to build Jim Griffin's bipole full
> range project after hearing them. DIY Dayton
> definitely helped my SAF of speakerbuilding.
> Could it help you to be able to build bigger
> and better projects and stay out of the dog
> house? I bet it could. She didn't even
> flinch when we went over to PE for our
> shopping trip. She says she will submit a
> project next year. Everyone should look out
> because she is one heck of an artist and
> woodworker and will likely come up with
> something very different and awesome
> looking.

> All in all, it was a great couple of days.
> PE was a gracious host. Hopefully, they will
> keep on hosting this event.

**edlafontaine** · 10-09-2005, 11:27 AM

Several people asked about the amp I brought. The following link will give the rest of the story:

<A HREF="http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...086#post740086">http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...086#post740086</A>

As I requested at the show, please give me your comments and critiques. It's how things improve!

**Wolf** · 10-09-2005, 11:55 AM

We set off a car alarm 3 times from ACROSS the parking lot! Running off Darren's Blau T-amp, we were throbbing. I was grinning ear-ear. Just an experience. Single 18" Omega Pro.
Later,
Wolf

**jasonb** · 10-09-2005, 01:51 PM

Provided Link: http://www.cardomain.com/shoplist~b~...+Grille+Cloths

Hope this helps. Very cool design by the way, the martini glass stands are perfect!

Jason

> Hehe, cool, but creepy. I wondered if it
> would come across as creepy to some. When i
> first started the project a lot of people
> wanted me to paint them up like eye *****.

> I need to find a source for RED grill fabric
> so i dont have to paint the driver.

> Here is a link to the project. Right now i
> just have pages and pictures of the build. I
> will get more details on the actual box,
> driver etc this week.

> In a nut shell:
> Full Range Drivers: TB 881, Sealed box 1.7
> liters
> Sub: 5.25" Dayton Classic in 22 liter
> ported box, Keiga 2.1 media amplifier.

**dylanmatlow** · 10-09-2005, 02:28 PM

My full range was Zaph's B3s design -- just with an extra cap across the baffle step... can't remember it was between 1-2uF to help bring up the upper end off axis

Whos design was that little 5" 2 way -- it was awesome and can fit almost anywhere!!! I want to build one

> Posted below is a link to the pics I took of
> DIY Dayton. There are a few projects that
> are unidentified. Please forgive me for
> forgetting to whom they belonged to. If
> someone knows, please let me know so I can
> fix the picture tags.

> All in all, I had a very good time. There
> were many excellent projects. Some that come
> to mind were Jim Griffin's arrays. His hotel
> room looked like NASA with all of the
> equipment he brought along. Darren had an
> unplayed set of arrays he brought that once
> dialed in by Christian were awesome. Paul K
> had a very nice set of 3 ways. These were
> one of my personal favorites. The
> "Olives" were the most visually
> interesting and unconventional project IMHO.
> There were no bad or even marginal projects
> this year.

> Matt Olsen brought 2 sets of DIY amps. Ed
> brought a very nice DIY amp also. I think a
> DIY amp is now in my future.

> I had the privelege of getting to do Pjay's
> normal job of MC'ing the event. We used a
> test disk Jim Griffin brought back from the
> Rocky Mountain Audio Fest as well as a disk
> brought by Matt Olsen.

> I saw many familiar as well as a few new
> faces this year. The Noid made a cameo
> appearance. Hopefully he will have an
> opportunity to return next year. I hope to
> see many more people next year. For those of
> you who normally attend and didn't, I would
> have to say that you missed out on some
> great projects and wonderful discussions.

> My wife Connie was the only female to attend
> this year. Everyone should be encouraged to
> bring their spouses next year. She actually
> asked me to build Jim Griffin's bipole full
> range project after hearing them. DIY Dayton
> definitely helped my SAF of speakerbuilding.
> Could it help you to be able to build bigger
> and better projects and stay out of the dog
> house? I bet it could. She didn't even
> flinch when we went over to PE for our
> shopping trip. She says she will submit a
> project next year. Everyone should look out
> because she is one heck of an artist and
> woodworker and will likely come up with
> something very different and awesome
> looking.

> All in all, it was a great couple of days.
> PE was a gracious host. Hopefully, they will
> keep on hosting this event.

**romanbednarek** · 10-09-2005, 03:04 PM

Provided Link: Bandit

> My full range was Zaph's B3s design -- just
> with an extra cap across the baffle step...
> can't remember it was between 1-2uF to help
> bring up the upper end off axis

> Whos design was that little 5" 2 way --
> it was awesome and can fit almost
> anywhere!!! I want to build one

I'm curious to know what you think of the B3S fullrange design. I just completed my Tang Band W4-1320SB design and am very happy with it except for one thing, the off axis high end response isn't very good. How is the off axis performance of your design? I noticed that metal cones tend to have better off axis response than paper/poly and the smaller cone (3" instead of 4") should help as well but I'm just wondering how much better it might be. Mine are only good within a 15 degree window, outside of that the highs start to disappear.

**chadg** · 10-09-2005, 03:22 PM

Provided Link: http://chadgray.info/

Awe... i missed it! At least it got fired up!

Did it need much power?

**dylanmatlow** · 10-09-2005, 03:24 PM

I think they do pretty well off axis now with the cap defeating the baffle step at higher freq... Right on axis they are a little extra airy which I kinda like but they sound acceptable to about 30 degrees off axis... The Mfr's response plots show the top end above 10k drooping anyways even if zaph's measurements didn't... but my ears liked the cap

They are about 2.5 ft in front of me toed in not at my head, but a little more. If I stand up they still sound fine... The frequency response is no longer exceedingly flat... but still sounds much better than some little $9 drivers have a right to...

What gets me is the very low efficiency... in a 5.1 system in a small-medium room with an appropriate highpass they still get plenty loud. Even without a highpass at the DIY event they got to an almost casual listening level

– I hope someone else will comment…

> I'm curious to know what you think of the
> B3S fullrange design. I just completed my
> Tang Band W4-1320SB design and am very happy
> with it except for one thing, the off axis
> high end response isn't very good. How is
> the off axis performance of your design? I
> noticed that metal cones tend to have better
> off axis response than paper/poly and the
> smaller cone (3" instead of 4")
> should help as well but I'm just wondering
> how much better it might be. Mine are only
> good within a 15 degree window, outside of
> that the highs start to disappear.

**chadg** · 10-09-2005, 03:27 PM

Provided Link: http://chadgray.info

Hi Roman, I would try making your baffle larger to help with the high end off axis. Just for a test throw some scrap pieces of MDF on one or both sides of your front baffle. I think that narrow width and centered driver is the root of your problem.

**chadg** · 10-09-2005, 03:44 PM

Provided Link: http://chadgray.info/

Thanks for the link Jason! It will come in handy for the re-design.

**romanbednarek** · 10-09-2005, 03:49 PM

Provided Link: RJB Audio Projects

> Hi Roman, I would try making your baffle
> larger to help with the high end off axis.
> Just for a test throw some scrap pieces of
> MDF on one or both sides of your front
> baffle. I think that narrow width and
> centered driver is the root of your problem.

Thanks for the suggestion but I disagree with your assessment. I think it is purely a function of the cone size and cone material. I took measurements of the response off axis in both the vertical (where the cabinet is 15" long) and horizontal (where the cabinet is 7" wide) directions and there is hardly any difference in the top end response. The measurements are posted on my site.

I did some research and determined that paper cone fullrange drivers tend to have worse dispersion compared to metal cone drivers for some reason and the larger 4" cone doesn't help either. I don't think there is anything I can do about it without adding a tweeter which I don't want to do so I guess these speakers will require you to stay in the "sweet spot" for the best sound and that is fine for my current application.

**romanbednarek** · 10-09-2005, 03:55 PM

> I think they do pretty well off axis now
> with the cap defeating the baffle step at
> higher freq... Right on axis they are a
> little extra airy which I kinda like but
> they sound acceptable to about 30 degrees
> off axis... The Mfr's response plots show
> the top end above 10k drooping anyways even
> if zaph's measurements didn't... but my ears
> liked the cap

> They are about 2.5 ft in front of me toed in
> not at my head, but a little more. If I
> stand up they still sound fine... The
> frequency response is no longer exceedingly
> flat... but still sounds much better than
> some little $9 drivers have a right to...

> What gets me is the very low efficiency...
> in a 5.1 system in a small-medium room with
> an appropriate highpass they still get
> plenty loud. Even without a highpass at the
> DIY event they got to an almost casual
> listening level

– I hope someone else
> will comment…

Yeah, I noticed that Zaph's high frequency response looked a lot better than PE's posted measurements. You're probably getting about twice as good off axis performance as me (30 degrees instead of 15 degrees where the highs begin disappearing) due to the smaller metal cone.

My design has decent efficiency at around 86 dB and they can play plent loud, that's for sure. My hearing threshold gives out before the drivers do but I don't like to listen to anything above 90 dB in my listening position. The bass response is decent for this little driver too.

Thanks for the information.

**chadg** · 10-09-2005, 04:31 PM

Provided Link: http://chadgray.info/

Just give it a shot out of curiosity. Dont center the driver. Add a little baffle on one of the short sides. See if it helps the off axis.

I mean there is not much to gain by off-setting the "tweeter" on the baffle but it might help.

**ajinfla** · 10-09-2005, 06:12 PM

> Just give it a shot out of curiosity. Dont
> center the driver. Add a little baffle on
> one of the short sides. See if it helps the
> off axis.

> I mean there is not much to gain by
> off-setting the "tweeter" on the
> baffle but it might help.

No. At (high) frequencies where the driver starts to beam, it is no longer illuminating the baffle. Basically, it no longer "sees" a baffle. Changing the shape will have no effect. I think you have that confused with lower treble/mid frequencies where the driver DOES illuminate the baffle. There will definately be an effect due to baffle shape at those frequencies.
As Roman stated, the primary reason for falling off axis is the size of the drivers cone. It has become acoustically too large to produce very high frequencies. The other reasons are the material and shape of the diaphram.
A 4" driver will beam. 'Tis the fallacy of a "Fullrange" single driver. There is no such thing. Only "extended" range drivers. That said, I'm a big coaxial fan :-).

Cheers,

AJ

**chadg** · 10-09-2005, 06:26 PM

Provided Link: http://chadgray.info/

You are right AJ and Roman. The baffle has no effect on the high end.

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