Triune or Modula MT

[jayc]

Here is the deal. I am going to build a 7.1 system for "The man's room". Money IS an issue. I don't currently have the receiver yet. I have an Aiwa bookshelf system in said room and it is why I am wanting to upgrade. Impressive I know. Anyway, it is all I have. I do have an Onkyo that will do 6 Ohms in the family room but that does me little good.

Okay, this being the case I am having trouble deciding what to do. I had planned on doing Triunes across the front with matching MTs around. But the RS180 MTMs with Modula MT's might be a lot better and cost a lot more. Either way it will be a L/R, Sub, surround, CC, or something progression.

I obviously can't run Nat. P's($$$) with the Aiwa, nor the Onkyo, though these are the most appealing.

The Triunes may run on the Onkyo but leave my room assed out until I get the AVR.

I don't think I would be happy with the 5.25" and silkie MT by themselves.

The Modula MT's might be good and seem to be very friendly as far as power is concerned. Haven't priced them out yet but may still be too $$$.

Maybe BR-1's now but my own enclosures and the tweak on the crossover? Shielded D-III's later? UniCC?

Whatever I do I want them all to match so if I go RS or classic now I will want to do it all around.

I just found out money is even more of an issue while writing this and might have to put it off again. D$&*. maybe I can work some more OT and get something started. I thought about starting the enclosures but am afraid something could change and they would be useless.

Really guys, I want to do something while I have a couple of down weeks for christmas. I just want a good system and have to be careful with the money.

Thank you.

[sqkev]

> Here is the deal. I am going to build a 7.1
> system for "The man's room". Money
> IS an issue. I don't currently have the
> receiver yet. I have an Aiwa bookshelf
> system in said room and it is why I am
> wanting to upgrade. Impressive I know.
> Anyway, it is all I have. I do have an Onkyo
> that will do 6 Ohms in the family room but
> that does me little good.

> Okay, this being the case I am having
> trouble deciding what to do. I had planned
> on doing Triunes across the front with
> matching MTs around. But the RS180 MTMs with
> Modula MT's might be a lot better and cost a
> lot more. Either way it will be a L/R, Sub,
> surround, CC, or something progression.

> I obviously can't run Nat. P's($$$) with the
> Aiwa, nor the Onkyo, though these are the
> most appealing.

> The Triunes may run on the Onkyo but leave
> my room assed out until I get the AVR.

> I don't think I would be happy with the
> 5.25" and silkie MT by themselves.

> The Modula MT's might be good and seem to be
> very friendly as far as power is concerned.
> Haven't priced them out yet but may still be
> too $$$.

> Maybe BR-1's now but my own enclosures and
> the tweak on the crossover? Shielded D-III's
> later? UniCC?

> Whatever I do I want them all to match so if
> I go RS or classic now I will want to do it
> all around.

> I just found out money is even more of an
> issue while writing this and might have to
> put it off again. D$&*. maybe I can work
> some more OT and get something started. I
> thought about starting the enclosures but am
> afraid something could change and they would
> be useless.

> Really guys, I want to do something while I
> have a couple of down weeks for christmas. I
> just want a good system and have to be
> careful with the money.

> Thank you.

how about this?
<A HREF="http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker20b.html">http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker20b.html</A>


________
Dc medical marijuana dispensary

[jayc]

> how about this?
>
> <A HREF="http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker20b.html">http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker20b.html</A>

I think I want something closer to mains to begin with, but those are cool.

[sqkev]

> I think I want something closer to mains to
> begin with, but those are cool.

my apologies, I didn't see that you're planning the Triunes in the first place.



________
Hotels in mexico city

[thomasw]

The Modula or any of Jon's designs using the RS driver are a state-of-the-art loudspeaker that you'll be able to use for years and years to come.

Save your money and invest in something good, instead of getting something quick and cheap.

[donparsons]

I have the Modula MT's and the BR-1s. There is defiinitely a difference. Although, the BR-1s do a very respectable job. I suggest doing a pair of the Modula MTs now, save some money and do some more later. If things change financially, you could even do the MTM for the fronts in the future .

Don

[jonpike]

> Here is the deal. I am going to build a 7.1
> system for "The man's room". Money
> IS an issue. I don't currently have the
> receiver yet. I have an Aiwa bookshelf
> system in said room and it is why I am
> wanting to upgrade. Impressive I know.
> Anyway, it is all I have. I do have an Onkyo
> that will do 6 Ohms in the family room but
> that does me little good.

> Okay, this being the case I am having
> trouble deciding what to do. I had planned
> on doing Triunes across the front with
> matching MTs around. But the RS180 MTMs with
> Modula MT's might be a lot better and cost a
> lot more. Either way it will be a L/R, Sub,
> surround, CC, or something progression.

> I obviously can't run Nat. P's($$$) with the
> Aiwa, nor the Onkyo, though these are the
> most appealing.

> The Triunes may run on the Onkyo but leave
> my room assed out until I get the AVR.

> I don't think I would be happy with the
> 5.25" and silkie MT by themselves.

> The Modula MT's might be good and seem to be
> very friendly as far as power is concerned.
> Haven't priced them out yet but may still be
> too $$$.

> Maybe BR-1's now but my own enclosures and
> the tweak on the crossover? Shielded D-III's
> later? UniCC?

> Whatever I do I want them all to match so if
> I go RS or classic now I will want to do it
> all around.

> I just found out money is even more of an
> issue while writing this and might have to
> put it off again. D$&*. maybe I can work
> some more OT and get something started. I
> thought about starting the enclosures but am
> afraid something could change and they would
> be useless.

> Really guys, I want to do something while I
> have a couple of down weeks for christmas. I
> just want a good system and have to be
> careful with the money.

> Thank you.

I may be wrong, but aren't the Modula MT's more expensive than the Natilie P's?

The Triune's are designed to work as a center, as well as sides.. then maybe go with a Wayne J's Budget HT for surrounds, they'd use the same W and T's.. Or, build his DBP's, same difference.

Jon Marsh's RS designs would be a major step higher, in quality as well as price...

[jayc]

Yeah, the Mod MT's aren't exactly cheap either, but I know I can't power the Nat P's for awhile. But I don't know if I will want to upgrade the Triunes eventually. Cjd has a design that does this. Too many possibilities.

[jayc]

> I have the Modula MT's and the BR-1s. There
> is defiinitely a difference. Although, the
> BR-1s do a very respectable job. I suggest
> doing a pair of the Modula MTs now, save
> some money and do some more later. If things
> change financially, you could even do the
> MTM for the fronts in the future .

> Don

I think this may be where I am headed.

[jayc]

> The Modula or any of Jon's designs using the
> RS driver are a state-of-the-art loudspeaker
> that you'll be able to use for years and
> years to come.

> Save your money and invest in something
> good, instead of getting something quick and
> cheap.

From what I read the Triune is a sound design, so that is why I am considering it. I realize the RS drivers are better.

[timreed]

I have recently built and/or own the following:

AR.coms (built)

EFE T-22's (Ed Frias design - bought)

Lou C's Cryolite (RS180 + BG NEO3PDR) (built)

Jon Marsh's RS MT - RS180 + RS28 (built for my friend)

Jon Marsh's MT - RS180 + SEAS 27TDFC (built)

Here's the bottom line - build either on Jon's designs. They are very similar and if anything - I like the SEAS version better. Do not even consider anything else. Both of the MT's are exceptional. This design will stand up against any 2-way regardless of price. They are clearly better than anything else I've built or owned (by the way that also includes Thiel CS3s and Paradigm Studio 100's).

I think the key is Jon's crossover - it works extremely well with the RS180 - really cleans up the midrange and the detail, imaging, and balance are outstanding. Last night my wife thought it was me playing the guitar (and she was in the room with her back turned to the computer).

Of course this is just my opinion - but it is based on 25 years of hard knocks.

[scottsehlin]

If money is really becoming more of an object, I have an inexpensive 2-way design that might work for you using the RS-150 with the Seas 27 TBFCG. It placed second in a virtual dead-heat with cjd's winning RS150 MTM at Chicago Audiofest - but is less expensive (drivers and crossover for less than $100 per speaker) and has an impedance that would work with your existing receiver. I used the 0.25 cu. ft. P.E. box - if you want to run them without a sub, then something closer to 0.35-0.4 cu. ft. would be better (keeping the baffle width about the same).

[unknownuser]

You make me want to build them, especially if they stood out in distinguished company like you listed. What was it you preferred about the seas version BTW?


(Originally posted by: morbo)

[timreed]

> You make me want to build them, especially
> if they stood out in distinguished company
> like you listed. What was it you preferred
> about the seas version BTW?

First - my Cryolites are the surface mount version you see on Lou’s site. My guess is that Lou’s flush mount version is better than my surface mount version (because he used measurements). So if you were to build the Cryolites - build Lou’s flush mount version (For those of you who don't know - Lou is a great guy and went out his way to help me). Also - BTW - I have the AR.coms - and the Cryolites are better than those.

Now - after I heard the RS MTs I knew I had to upgrade my Cryolites- so I decided to try the SEAS version of the design. And that is what I built - and I have now listened to it for about the last 4 days. (Guessing about 25 CDs - - and about 15 hours)

IMO - - (and in the opinion of my 9 year old daughter and my wife - who both noticed it right away), the SEAS MT is superior to my Cryolites. The frequency balance is better (my Cryolite had a sligh peak in the upper bass that would start to bother me after a while of listening on some CDs). The detail improvement is better (this is startling on how much better it is - - and the detail does not come at the expense of a peak at the 3-5k frequency range that can fatigue your ears - it seems to be the result of a very good crossover). For example - I can easily understand words that were previously difficult to make out. In another case - I can now readily hear people in the background tapping their feet - I did not detect that before (it might have been there- but was not obvious). Another example - anything that is spacey - sounds “spacier” - an effect I greatly enjoy (just like I enjoy the spacey setting on my guitar pedal!).

The SEAS MT is a real pleasure - or I guess I should say - it gets out of the way - the music is the real pleasure! Nothing about it irritates me. In short it is a great speaker for me.

Again - IMO - it is definitely the best speaker I have ever owned or built - and the best 2-way I have heard (been listening for the past 25 years - and have heard a lot of speakers).

One example - I just bought the new Diana Krall xmas cd. We were listening to it upstairs while we ate dinner (Paradigm studio 100's - - which my wife will not let me replace - due to how "pretty" they are). It sounded real good. But when I put it on the SEAS MTs - I about fell off of my chair. (BTW - the cryolites wewre also better than the studio 100's).

My advice to anyone thinking about building a speaker in the $300 range - it’s a no-brainer - build the Jon Marsh MT (either version - - based on my memory - I think they are very close in sound - if anything I think the SEAS version might be better).

Would also add - a great deal of the credit goes to the design of the Dayton RS180 - it is outstanding - - especially at the price!

One more thing - in Jon’s design (for the Seas MT) there is a 2.4 mH inductor that he spec’d for .2 ohms resistance. Well - that’s virtually impossible to find. I bought the 14 ga perfect lay inductor at 2.5 mH and .3 ohms of resistance. But of course as things are bound to happen - one of the inductors fell apart when I unpacked it and I was not able to re-wind it and return it to 2.5 mH (I have a LC meter and the best I could do was only 2.29 mH). So I put it in the crossover anyway. Listened to it for 2 days. Then I tried out a 2.45 inductor I already had (it comes from my Thiel CS3 crossover - it has about .8 ohms of resistance - - and appears to be like 18 ga - so a lot more resistance - -and hence my concern on the impact). Bottom line - I can not hear any significant difference in the speaker (there might be - might be - a slight change in the character of the bass- but it is more likely that it is my imagination). So my advice - buy the Madisound 16 gauge 2.5 mH inductor and save yourself about 20 dollars.

Bottom line - Jon Marsh really nailed this design!

[unknownuser]

Thanks for the additional feedback, and the inductor advice. I would probably just use a erse iron core for the big values, I've used them before with the RS drivers and they seemed to work well. I can't tell you how rare and valuable compartive reviews like this are for those like me who can only afford to import the components once every few years.

> First - my Cryolites are the surface mount
> version you see on Lou’s site. My guess is
> that Lou’s flush mount version is better
> than my surface mount version (because he
> used measurements). So if you were to build
> the Cryolites - build Lou’s flush mount
> version (For those of you who don't know -
> Lou is a great guy and went out his way to
> help me). Also - BTW - I have the AR.coms -
> and the Cryolites are better than those.

> Now - after I heard the RS MTs I knew I had
> to upgrade my Cryolites- so I decided to try
> the SEAS version of the design. And that is
> what I built - and I have now listened to it
> for about the last 4 days. (Guessing about
> 25 CDs - - and about 15 hours)

> IMO - - (and in the opinion of my 9 year old
> daughter and my wife - who both noticed it
> right away), the SEAS MT is superior to my
> Cryolites. The frequency balance is better
> (my Cryolite had a sligh peak in the upper
> bass that would start to bother me after a
> while of listening on some CDs). The detail
> improvement is better (this is startling on
> how much better it is - - and the detail
> does not come at the expense of a peak at
> the 3-5k frequency range that can fatigue
> your ears - it seems to be the result of a
> very good crossover). For example - I can
> easily understand words that were previously
> difficult to make out. In another case - I
> can now readily hear people in the
> background tapping their feet - I did not
> detect that before (it might have been
> there- but was not obvious). Another example
> - anything that is spacey - sounds “spacier”
> - an effect I greatly enjoy (just like I
> enjoy the spacey setting on my guitar
> pedal!).

> The SEAS MT is a real pleasure - or I guess
> I should say - it gets out of the way - the
> music is the real pleasure! Nothing about it
> irritates me. In short it is a great speaker
> for me.

> Again - IMO - it is definitely the best
> speaker I have ever owned or built - and the
> best 2-way I have heard (been listening for
> the past 25 years - and have heard a lot of
> speakers).

> One example - I just bought the new Diana
> Krall xmas cd. We were listening to it
> upstairs while we ate dinner (Paradigm
> studio 100's - - which my wife will not let
> me replace - due to how "pretty"
> they are). It sounded real good. But when I
> put it on the SEAS MTs - I about fell off of
> my chair. (BTW - the cryolites wewre also
> better than the studio 100's).

> My advice to anyone thinking about building
> a speaker in the $300 range - it’s a
> no-brainer - build the Jon Marsh MT (either
> version - - based on my memory - I think
> they are very close in sound - if anything I
> think the SEAS version might be better).

> Would also add - a great deal of the credit
> goes to the design of the Dayton RS180 - it
> is outstanding - - especially at the price!

> One more thing - in Jon’s design (for the
> Seas MT) there is a 2.4 mH inductor that he
> spec’d for .2 ohms resistance. Well - that’s
> virtually impossible to find. I bought the
> 14 ga perfect lay inductor at 2.5 mH and .3
> ohms of resistance. But of course as things
> are bound to happen - one of the inductors
> fell apart when I unpacked it and I was not
> able to re-wind it and return it to 2.5 mH
> (I have a LC meter and the best I could do
> was only 2.29 mH). So I put it in the
> crossover anyway. Listened to it for 2 days.
> Then I tried out a 2.45 inductor I already
> had (it comes from my Thiel CS3 crossover -
> it has about .8 ohms of resistance - - and
> appears to be like 18 ga - so a lot more
> resistance - -and hence my concern on the
> impact). Bottom line - I can not hear any
> significant difference in the speaker (there
> might be - might be - a slight change in the
> character of the bass- but it is more likely
> that it is my imagination). So my advice -
> buy the Madisound 16 gauge 2.5 mH inductor
> and save yourself about 20 dollars.

> Bottom line - Jon Marsh really nailed this
> design!



(Originally posted by: morbo)

[jayc]

Thanks to both of you, I found the exchange very helpful. I will look further into the Seas version as it will save me money.

Jay

[jayc]

> If money is really becoming more of an
> object, I have an inexpensive 2-way design
> that might work for you using the RS-150
> with the Seas 27 TBFCG. It placed second in
> a virtual dead-heat with cjd's winning RS150
> MTM at Chicago Audiofest - but is less
> expensive (drivers and crossover for less
> than $100 per speaker) and has an impedance
> that would work with your existing receiver.
> I used the 0.25 cu. ft. P.E. box - if you
> want to run them without a sub, then
> something closer to 0.35-0.4 cu. ft. would
> be better (keeping the baffle width about
> the same).

Cool, man, where can I find out more?

[curt_c]

> Okay, this being the case I am having
> trouble deciding what to do. I had planned
> on doing Triunes across the front with
> matching MTs around. But the RS180 MTMs with
> Modula MT's might be a lot better and cost a
> lot more. Either way it will be a L/R, Sub,
> surround, CC, or something progression.

Having extensively listened to both the Triune and my version of the RS180/RS28 (As part of a 3 way.) I can tell you the RS drivers sound considerably better than the Dayton Classics. (As used in the Triune iteration.) Keep in mind the Triune was a budget system, while I used a more complex Xo with the RS drivers. Still, the Triune is very pleasent to listen to, and will get you most of the way there for little $$$.

I'd say either save your pennies, or find someone who will buy the Triunes when you are ready to upgrade.

C

[jayc]

> I'd say either save your pennies, or find
> someone who will buy the Triunes when you
> are ready to upgrade.

> C
Thanks Curt. The CC aspect of the Triunes is what made me interested. Then I compared prices, configuration etc. Finally I saw the Transmission Line version and have always been interested in the design. I drew them up 3D in AutoCAD and just like them. Lastly the ease of just hitting the parts list purchase button helps a lot, as I am not sure what I am purchasing if I do the Modula MT's.

Thanks again.
Jay

PS much props on the TL. I am interested in hearing them.

[romanbednarek]

Provided Link: RJB Audio Projects


> Here is the deal. I am going to build a 7.1
> system for "The man's room". Money
> IS an issue. I don't currently have the
> receiver yet. I have an Aiwa bookshelf
> system in said room and it is why I am
> wanting to upgrade. Impressive I know.
> Anyway, it is all I have. I do have an Onkyo
> that will do 6 Ohms in the family room but
> that does me little good.

> Okay, this being the case I am having
> trouble deciding what to do. I had planned
> on doing Triunes across the front with
> matching MTs around. But the RS180 MTMs with
> Modula MT's might be a lot better and cost a
> lot more. Either way it will be a L/R, Sub,
> surround, CC, or something progression.

> I obviously can't run Nat. P's($$$) with the
> Aiwa, nor the Onkyo, though these are the
> most appealing.

> The Triunes may run on the Onkyo but leave
> my room assed out until I get the AVR.

> I don't think I would be happy with the
> 5.25" and silkie MT by themselves.

> The Modula MT's might be good and seem to be
> very friendly as far as power is concerned.
> Haven't priced them out yet but may still be
> too $$$.

> Maybe BR-1's now but my own enclosures and
> the tweak on the crossover? Shielded D-III's
> later? UniCC?

> Whatever I do I want them all to match so if
> I go RS or classic now I will want to do it
> all around.

> I just found out money is even more of an
> issue while writing this and might have to
> put it off again. D$&*. maybe I can work
> some more OT and get something started. I
> thought about starting the enclosures but am
> afraid something could change and they would
> be useless.

> Really guys, I want to do something while I
> have a couple of down weeks for christmas. I
> just want a good system and have to be
> careful with the money.

> Thank you.

Sorry about the late response but I thought that I'd give you another option if you are interested. I designed a speaker that uses dual RS125 drivers along with the Tang Band T25-1166S tweeter in a 2.5 way crossover format. Since it is a 2.5 way design it can be used as a center channel fairly well. It can be used for all channels as a matter of fact for a perfectly matched surround sound system. I think this is important because you will get superior imaging with matched speakers and the tonal balance will also be perfectly matched. Below is a picture of the cabinet design and I have the crossover design somewhere on my computer... I can dig it up if you want. The only issue is that the impedance of this design dips down to 4 ohms in spots so it requires a fairly decent amp to drive them (especially 7 if you plan to do a full compliment).

These speakers are a variation of my Microbe design which has gotten a lot of praise from a lot of people so I think you would be more than happy with the sound even though I haven't actually built this exact speaker. Let me know if you are interested and I can give you more details about the crossover. By the way, somebody else is building a different version that is slightly less sensitive but has an impedance that is closer to 6 ohms using impedance compensation and woofer resistors (it's not something you would normally do but it seems to work well in this case).