Down to 10 and counting.... *PIC*

[paul_n_oneal]

All the way from about 30 parts to 10. I don't think I can get rid of any more. But it just keeps getting a little better each time. I'm close to publishing. I have the label's labeled so it's gonna be real close to this one. I'm pretty happy so we shall see what the Iowa DIY'ers think. For those that don't know this will be debuted in Iowa. I'm a little excited because as we all know, the Iowa DIY is probably the biggest in the nation. Whew, talk about butterflys and nostalgia all bunched up together. Enjoy,

Pauy

[martyh]

> All the way from about 30 parts to 10. I
> don't think I can get rid of any more. But
> it just keeps getting a little better each
> time. I'm close to publishing. I have the
> label's labeled so it's gonna be real close
> to this one. I'm pretty happy so we shall
> see what the Iowa DIY'ers think. For those
> that don't know this will be debuted in
> Iowa. I'm a little excited because as we all
> know, the Iowa DIY is probably the biggest
> in the nation. Whew, talk about butterflys
> and nostalgia all bunched up together.
> Enjoy,

> Pauy

Paul,

It looks good - and for ten components, it looks REAL Good! I'm surprised you haven't received more feedback, but then again the Packers are on MNFB!

Looking forward to hearing it in Iowa.

[tommoore]

Hey, Paul

It looks pretty good. I would be tempted to try a steeper slope on the mid low pass, and eliminate the cancellations between 10K-15K. (Although my last design had a similar effect and I let it go because it sounded too good!)

Tom

[paul_n_oneal]

> Hey, Paul

> It looks pretty good. I would be tempted to
> try a steeper slope on the mid low pass, and
> eliminate the cancellations between 10K-15K.
> (Although my last design had a similar
> effect and I let it go because it sounded
> too good!)

> Tom

Believe me Tom, I have fu*ked with trying to avoid that cancellation and it downright ****** me off. It's close, closer than it was before. I'm all tried out on ideas, so if you got one let er rip.

Paul

[curt_c]

> Believe me Tom, I have fu*ked with trying to
> avoid that cancellation and it downright
> ****** me off. It's close, closer than it
> was before. I'm all tried out on ideas, so
> if you got one let er rip.

The cancellation will disappear off axis, as the mid response will be attenuated at the high end.

Nice minimalist design! How's it sound?

C

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> All the way from about 30 parts to 10. I
> don't think I can get rid of any more. But
> it just keeps getting a little better each
> time. I'm close to publishing. I have the
> label's labeled so it's gonna be real close
> to this one. I'm pretty happy so we shall
> see what the Iowa DIY'ers think. For those
> that don't know this will be debuted in
> Iowa. I'm a little excited because as we all
> know, the Iowa DIY is probably the biggest
> in the nation. Whew, talk about butterflys
> and nostalgia all bunched up together.
> Enjoy,

> Pauy

Looks nice Paul. Can't wait to hear it. I'm debuting my K1-DA175 TM at the show. It comes in at $100 for parts. I wish you could hear mine as well.

[paul_n_oneal]

> The cancellation will disappear off axis, as
> the mid response will be attenuated at the
> high end.

> Nice minimalist design! How's it sound?

> C

Hehe, better than it's supposed to sound . I was really, really worried about 2 weeks into this project that I picked the wrong midrange. Then over the weekend, something similiar to this popped up and I said shoot, it can't hurt anything to try it. I was surprised because it was the closest to the sound I was searching for but had yet to attain.

So this was my first pure paper mid. No coating, just a plain ole paper cone. Nothing special but when you hear it you will be amazed. This has embedded my belief that paper does indeed have some inherent qualities that are desirable in a speaker. Vocal especially sound nice. Every little nuance can be heard in tone a pitch. Pretty amazing considering it was only $17 IIRC. Yes, I will do another paper mid, but if a cheapo driver like this can sound that good then I'm curious what a mid dollar paper mid could do.

Oh, I'm not big on keeping the same drivers throughout (paper everything, metal all, etc). This sound is captivating. Yes, it's a tad bit diffent sounding than metal or poly but it blends well together. So I have a kevlar/carbon woofer, a paper mid, and a textile dome tweeter. Let's just make it hard next time LOL. Nah, from my experience if you get the phase lined up then your 1/2 way there. That's what makes or breaks a speaker desing IMHO.

BTW, thank you for your comments. I will take them outside and measure as I think you're right and they sound pretty nice and the parts count is a nice even 10

Paul

[paul_n_oneal]

> Looks nice Paul. Can't wait to hear it. I'm
> debuting my K1-DA175 TM at the show. It
> comes in at $100 for parts. I wish you could
> hear mine as well.

Ya know Dick and Ed West test over the phone. Of course the lows and very highs are not there but you can tell if the crossover is right. To that end, if you care to call or I call you, let me know and we can hook up. LOL, who in there right mind tests speakers over the phone . Yes, it works, you just have to really listen hard.

[paul_n_oneal]

> Paul,

> It looks good - and for ten components, it
> looks REAL Good! I'm surprised you haven't
> received more feedback, but then again the
> Packers are on MNFB!

> Looking forward to hearing it in Iowa.

Hey Marty,
Jee, that email addy looks like a good name for me . I don't keep up with sports but thanks for that reminder.

Paul

[damkor]

A 5dB rise in the treble, on paper.

That's an unusual high pass, with the cap followed by damped L. Try putting a 4 ohm resistor in series, and using maybe a 2uF cap and L instead, and get rid of the resistor in series with the parallel L.

[paul_n_oneal]

> A 5dB rise in the treble, on paper.

> That's an unusual high pass, with the cap
> followed by damped L. Try putting a 4 ohm
> resistor in series, and using maybe a 2uF
> cap and L instead, and get rid of the
> resistor in series with the parallel L.

Not sure where you're looking. The black line is the total and I see a dip at the upper treble due to phase cancellation between the mid and tweeter which hopefully goes flat off-axis during measurements.

Paul

[paul_n_oneal]

crossovers excluding boxes, terminals, gasket material, etc. So for those of you waiting for a budget 3 way that don't break the bank then this should be right up your alley. I mean go listen to a 3 way at CC for $277.00 and see what you think hehe. I will probably be done fiddleing around by this weekend, but that's still up in the air. Let me mention something about this design's bass. Passive radiators are interesting. Like Pete said before, it's like having a 9" vent in your speaker. This bass is pretty solid sounding and not boomy like I was expecting. I just figured that passives gave HT bass which is usually pretty boomy. Not so in this case, it does, however, add a lot of bass content down low. This woofer was more efficient than stated on the PE website. Darren's TS params are much closer to the real efficieny. Pretty amazing. Can you ever have to much bass? Well, maybe not, but you have to be careful in the design of one of these guys because you will have a lot more bass than a normal closed box or vented box. Just some lessons I picked up along the way on this design.

Paul

[damkor]

Well, the reference level is predicted to be -12dB at 500Hz. And then you rise to -9dB at 6kHz. I'm not so concerned about the above 10kHz stuff.

[paul_n_oneal]

> Well, the reference level is predicted to be
> -12dB at 500Hz. And then you rise to -9dB at
> 6kHz. I'm not so concerned about the above
> 10kHz stuff.

Ah I see said the blind man. Bass is the hardest part to measure in a system. It's just hard to get good measurements down low unless you do a ground plane or some extensive splices from nearfield and farfield. I started out a -12db for the reference level but this had to much bass. It wasn't bad, but a little to much so I now consider the reference level at around -10db. Those passive radiators add a lot of bass content . I will listen some more and try and see if I think they're to bright. Paper in and of itself seems to be the epitome of bright so I let'er rip loose in this design. It's like sing it to me baby hehe. Thanks for the comments and I will do a double take on that recommendation.

Paul

[paul_n_oneal]

[curt_c]

Looking forward to hearing it at the Iowa DIY!

C

[Jim Holtz]

> Paul,

> It looks good - and for ten components, it
> looks REAL Good! I'm surprised you haven't
> received more feedback, but then again the
> Packers are on MNFB!

> Looking forward to hearing it in Iowa.

Marty,

Are you on my email list for the Iowa DIY event? If you'd like to be on it for updates, maps and other stuff of interest about the event that comes up, send me an email at my address listed in this post.

I'm looking forward to meeting you at the event. See you there!

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

> All the way from about 30 parts to 10. I
> don't think I can get rid of any more. But
> it just keeps getting a little better each
> time. I'm close to publishing. I have the
> label's labeled so it's gonna be real close
> to this one. I'm pretty happy so we shall
> see what the Iowa DIY'ers think. For those
> that don't know this will be debuted in
> Iowa. I'm a little excited because as we all
> know, the Iowa DIY is probably the biggest
> in the nation. Whew, talk about butterflys
> and nostalgia all bunched up together.
> Enjoy,

> Pauy

Hi Paul,

I'm looking forward to hearing your new design. Also, I'm not sure that the Iowa event is the biggest in the nation but we do our best to put on a good event that everyone will enjoy. It's lots of fun getting together with others in the DIY community, making new friends and renewing relationships. It's a good time. I didn't even mention all the speakers of every shape and size that you get the opportunity to listen to. That makes it even better. :-)

Darn it! Hop in your car or a plane and come on up and join us!

Jim

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> Ya know Dick and Ed West test over the
> phone. Of course the lows and very highs are
> not there but you can tell if the crossover
> is right. To that end, if you care to call
> or I call you, let me know and we can hook
> up. LOL, who in there right mind tests
> speakers over the phone . Yes, it works,
> you just have to really listen hard.

How in the world can that work? You have to be real certain of the phone response to get it right. How do you calibrate such a system?

[paul_n_oneal]

> How in the world can that work? You have to
> be real certain of the phone response to get
> it right. How do you calibrate such a
> system?

Oh, it's probably not real accurate but better than none at all. OK, I'm going to put my foot in a big pile of cow dung here but here it goes. I can hear whether a speaker is in phase or not. Some claim that you can't tell the difference, but I can--leastwise I think I can. The mind is a weird thing. So I guess I should explain how I hear this. Well, I find that after a speaker is in phase you hear certain attributes that were not present before. The twang of a guitar sting lasting for seconds, tonal deviations are clear and not muddy, you can hear the reverb on songs recorded with reverb, for example, hearing the reverb after the last note of a singer. How things mesh together to envelope the listener. Anyway, I probably just stepped in a big old pile of poop with this topic but so be it.

Paul