New Project Needed

**dansolomon** · 10-23-2006, 10:13 AM

I am looking for an audiophile floor speaker design. So far I have built two sets of Lyras, the Veritas and the D-3's. I have enjoyed them all and use the Veritas for my home speakers. They are great. I am wondering if someone can direct me to some designs that go even further. How about the Eros. I listen to a lot of jazz and blues. Thanks in advance.

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 10:51 AM

> I am looking for an audiophile floor speaker
> design. So far I have built two sets of
> Lyras, the Veritas and the D-3's. I have
> enjoyed them all and use the Veritas for my
> home speakers. They are great. I am
> wondering if someone can direct me to some
> designs that go even further. How about the
> Eros. I listen to a lot of jazz and blues.
> Thanks in advance.

What's your budget?

**dansolomon** · 10-23-2006, 12:33 PM

> What's your budget?

$500 to $700 for the electronics

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 12:54 PM

> $500 to $700 for the electronics

Nice budget. That's for drivers and XO parts or for amps too?

We'll be looking at some projects this weekend in Des Moines that likely fit into that category.

With that kind of dough, you've got some good options. And since you're mostly jazz, there's no need for subsonic capacity.

How large an enclosure would you be willing to entertain?

**marlboro** · 10-23-2006, 02:10 PM

Daniel,

I'd love to try the Rudy/Pete project with an MTMWW consisting of a Bohlender Graebener Neo3 PDR ($55 w/flange) for the tweeter, and two of the Dayton Dome midranges, and two of the 7 inch Aluminum Dayton Woofers.

Of course, I'd go with electronic crossovers, and bi or tri amplification. I think you could do that for around $700 parts. Remember that you won't need a box for the MTM part, only for the 7 inchers.

What do you think?

Marlboro

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 02:15 PM

> Daniel,

> I'd love to try the Rudy/Pete project with
> an MTMWW consisting of a Bohlender Graebener
> Neo3 PDR ($55 w/flange) for the tweeter, and
> two of the Dayton Dome midranges, and two of
> the 7 inch Aluminum Dayton Woofers.

> Of course, I'd go with electronic
> crossovers, and bi or tri amplification. I
> think you could do that for around $700
> parts. Remember that you won't need a box
> for the MTM part, only for the 7 inchers.

> What do you think?

> Marlboro

The mids are crossed above 3KHz, so CTC spacing is an issue. Besides, one of those mids should be PLENTY.

I'm getting ready to start cutting MDF to make the WWTMWWWW. All the XO parts and drivers should fall under $500 easily. Admittedly, that's major overkill for "mostly jazz" but the TMWWWW would be just about right.

**marlboro** · 10-23-2006, 03:29 PM

Pete,

Didn't you use a Neo for that? With the B&G I can cross lower, Maybe 2500 with 24 db slopes, and I'd cut the flanges on the dome midranges, and the B&G's to fix the lobing issues. Besides a circular flange is way not good for refraction issues.

I'd cross the Dayton 7 incher's at about 500.

My next choice on a dome level would be the Seas 29TFFW, AGAIN cutting the flanges to a diamond shape.

I'd use a baffle facing of 1/2 thing wool felt, bent around a 2 inch radius circle edge.

Marlboro

> The mids are crossed above 3KHz, so CTC
> spacing is an issue.

**rudyjakubin** · 10-23-2006, 03:54 PM

> I'm getting ready to start cutting MDF to
> make the WWTMWWWW. All the XO parts and
> drivers should fall under $500 easily.
> Admittedly, that's major overkill for
> "mostly jazz" but the TMWWWW would
> be just about right.

Also, with the MTMWW's Daniel can change the voicing by changing out the tweeter with one or two component changes like a resistor and a small cap.
<A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1005">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1005</A>
<A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1002">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1002</A>
<A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...15994&pid=2157">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...15994&pid=2157</A>
Then again them TMWWWW's sure sound great for Jazz.
I got 'The Dave Brubeck - Time Out CD' the other day. That alto sax is a killer - not to take away from the rest of the players but that sax WoW!!!

An aside... Hey Pete - how close are you to the lower crossover points for the MTMWW's?
Payday is around the corner. I know you're really busy getting ready for Iowa...
Also wondering what you think about the Vifa Zaph is using in the ZD5?
<A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pid=1435">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pid=1435</A>
Sure is pretty looking.

It's also 104mm...

Back to winterizing - but I think it's Fall or is it Autumn???

**marlboro** · 10-23-2006, 04:21 PM

I still prefer my 17 speaker sammi mids and 28 speaker neo tweets per channel connected to my 15mm Xmax DVC 12 in woofers for nearly anything including Jazz(which I don't have a lot of but some). Is David Sanborn considered Jazz or big band?

Marlboro

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 05:25 PM

> Pete,

> Didn't you use a Neo for that? With the B&G
> I can cross lower, Maybe 2500 with 24 db
> slopes, and I'd cut the flanges on the dome
> midranges, and the B&G's to fix the lobing
> issues. Besides a circular flange is way not
> good for refraction issues.

> I'd cross the Dayton 7 incher's at about
> 500.

> My next choice on a dome level would be the
> Seas 29TFFW, AGAIN cutting the flanges to a
> diamond shape.

> I'd use a baffle facing of 1/2 thing wool
> felt, bent around a 2 inch radius circle
> edge.

> Marlboro

Seems like such a waste not to use the RS52 to 4KHz or so. It's distortion is miniscule from 600Hz to 4000Hz. Why only give the mid two octaves? 500Hz seems just too low for the RS52, even if you use a pair. I do like the BG tweeter. But why not use it at 3.5KHz with a single RS52?

The round flange is not an issue if you flush mount the drivers.

Then again, why not go with the vifa XG18 instead? A 500Hz crossover would work very well and the XG is more than capable in the midrange region. Crossed at 2500Hz to the Neo3PDR would provide a very low distortion system

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 05:43 PM

> Also, with the MTMWW's Daniel can change the
> voicing by changing out the tweeter with one
> or two component changes like a resistor and
> a small cap.
>
> <A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1005">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1005</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1002">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1002</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...15994&pid=2157">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...15994&pid=2157</A>
> Then again them TMWWWW's sure sound great
> for Jazz.
> I got 'The Dave Brubeck - Time Out CD' the
> other day. That alto sax is a killer - not
> to take away from the rest of the players
> but that sax WoW!!!

> An aside... Hey Pete - how close are you to
> the lower crossover points for the MTMWW's?
> Payday is around the corner. I know you're
> really busy getting ready for Iowa...
> Also wondering what you think about the Vifa
> Zaph is using in the ZD5?
>
> <A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pid=1435">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pid=1435</A>
> Sure is pretty looking.

> It's also 104mm...

> Back to winterizing - but I think it's Fall
> or is it Autumn???

I came up with something last night for the 1500Hz XO on the woofer section.

Since the sensitivity of the MTMWW is the same as Zaph's MTM, I just "stole" his tweeter XO (not like I didn't have the same one from previous efforts . . .) so go with his posted values. For the woofer section, I kept it simple. There could be more done to squelch the cone resonances, but they're pretty far down even with only a second order filter.

So, keep the 8mH and (12uF - 22 Ohm) zobel on the lower section. You could go as high as 10mH or as low as 6mH depending on room conditions. For the upper woofer section, 1.5mH and 12uF with a (50uF - 12 Ohm) zobel. You wouldn't believe the reverse null with this circuit (greater than 30dB). The phase alignment is nearly perfect.

**nicholas_23** · 10-23-2006, 05:44 PM

Cant wait to hear the MTMWW in Iowa
Do you have one of your 3D cad/picture file for this one? Have you had a chance to start on the Xover ?

> The mids are crossed above 3KHz, so CTC
> spacing is an issue. Besides, one of those
> mids should be PLENTY.

> I'm getting ready to start cutting MDF to
> make the WWTMWWWW. All the XO parts and
> drivers should fall under $500 easily.
> Admittedly, that's major overkill for
> "mostly jazz" but the TMWWWW would
> be just about right.

**kens** · 10-23-2006, 05:45 PM

Im think hes more Smooth Jazz, in my area, hes famous on a smooth jazz station. My favorite one is Spooky

> I still prefer my 17 speaker sammi mids and
> 28 speaker neo tweets per channel connected
> to my 15mm Xmax DVC 12 in woofers for nearly
> anything including Jazz(which I don't have a
> lot of but some). Is David Sanborn
> considered Jazz or big band?

> Marlboro

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 05:50 PM

> Cant wait to hear the MTMWW in Iowa
> Do you have one of your 3D cad/picture file
> for this one? Have you had a chance to start
> on the Xover ?

Are you talking about the WWTMWWWW? I just drew up the baffle diagram and "finished" a crossover for it just recently.

I'm anxious to get to Iowa myself. It's been three years since my last DIY.

**nicholas_23** · 10-23-2006, 05:54 PM

How tall is this monster going to be?
> Are you talking about the WWTMWWWW? I just
> drew up the baffle diagram and
> "finished" a crossover for it just
> recently.

> I'm anxious to get to Iowa myself. It's been
> three years since my last DIY.

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 05:55 PM

Isn't that just a phenomenal CD? Can you believe 1959 as the recording date? The snare "whacks" are so clean. And you're absolutely right about the sax. Whoever recorded it put one in for the ages.

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 06:01 PM

> How tall is this monster going to be?

Not bad really. Under 5' for sure. Probably around 4'- 4" tall, 10" wide and 18" deep. I'm going to attempt a curved side cabinet using successive layers of thin MDF or masonite to build it up. I'm contemplating using contact cement between layers to help decouple them from each other. I can't see any reason for it not to work. But then again, I'm no mechanical engineer.

**rudyjakubin** · 10-23-2006, 06:07 PM

> Not bad really. Under 5' for sure. Probably
> around 4'- 4" tall, 10" wide and
> 18" deep. I'm going to attempt a curved
> side cabinet using successive layers of thin
> MDF or masonite to build it up. I'm
> contemplating using contact cement between
> layers to help decouple them from each
> other. I can't see any reason for it not to
> work. But then again, I'm no mechanical
> engineer.

That's what I had in mind also - 52" tall hee hee...
Only I was thinking of glueing 1/4" concrete board for a 3/4" sandwich and a 1/4" hardwood plywood!
With lots of window braces!!!
Starts tomorrow!

Supposed to be warmer - like 10 degrees below normal...

**Pete Schumacher ®** · 10-23-2006, 06:10 PM

> That's what I had in mind also - 52"
> tall hee hee...
> Only I was thinking of glueing 1/4"
> concrete board for a 3/4" sandwich and
> a 1/4" hardwood plywood!
> With lots of window braces!!!
> Starts tomorrow!

> Supposed to be warmer - like 10 degrees
> below normal...

Can't I ever get one of these done before you?

**rudyjakubin** · 10-23-2006, 06:30 PM

> Can't I ever get one of these done before
> you?

And not enough money!!!!

TIMmmmme--- Not really it's this frikkin weather and no garage! ARghhhh!

I did find some PVA glue that'll work to 10 degrees but hardens in 48 hours but I found out is workable the next day without stress.
So here's to building speakers in a snowmobile outfit!

Also, singing in the Schumakubins tomorrow is the Seas 27TDFC;
<A HREF="http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1002">http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...27756&pid=1002</A>

Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

Thread: New Project Needed

Thread Tools

Display