Slightly OT: DTV set-top converter box

[bill]

As all you fine folks know by now, analog TV broadcasting is going away in February 2009. After that, you'll have to use a DTV tuner/converter box in front of your TV if you want off-air reception.

Recognizing this, and also recognizing that there would be a popular uprising if Americans suddenly had to replace all their analog TVs, Congress mandated a program whereby some of the proceeds from the auction of the old analog TV channels would be used to subsidize the purchase of these converter boxes. The details haven't been worked out yet, but a couple of companies have developed prototype converters with target retail prices under $100 before the subsidy.

I've now had a couple of evenings to play with the Zenith box. I'm in love. No, it won't give you true HD on an NTSC set; that's not possible. However, it works quite well, and the 5th generation tuner chip is close to miraculous. I have the converter installed on the TV in my family room, on the first floor. I'm using a cheap UHF bow-tie antenna, the kind that used to come with the rabbit ears you got with older TVs. It's sitting on top of my TV cabinet. I'm 20 miles from the Empire State Building, where most of New York's TV transmitters are. I'm getting clean reception on all Manhattan transmitters, including WNET, the PBS station, which is transmitting on low power on Channel 12 (VHF) I'm also getting two Long Island channels and at least one New Jersey channel. There is some occasional breakup when a plane flies through the signal path, but otherwise it's clean. With a minimal outdoor antenna I'm sure reception would be perfect.

The downconverted video and audio are clean and noise free. The box supports AFD (Active Format Description), so it will automatically chnge image size to match what the station is transmitting as soon as stations implement this feature (the standards have just been completed.) It also has a pretty good program guide, which is driven by the PSIP information that stations are required to broadcast.

It's a tiny box, about 6" x 6" x 1-1/2" high. It's almost smaller than the remote control that comes with it (though the final remote may be different.) Setup is easy and painless; push a couple of buttons and let it scan for a few minutes.

I really don't want to give it back. And if you do go buy a DTV, look for one with the 5th generation tuner chip. It makes a tremendous difference.

Best regards,
Bill

[shawn_a]

Is the Zenith box you have a final design and, if so, what's the street date for it? I know, it's a couple of years until the big switch is thrown so there are bound to be further upgrades before that date. It's the 17th of February, right? That sticks in my mind because that's my birthday.

Now if you are able to get that good of reception with a minimal antenna I'm really curious. I'm mulling over putting up a big mast mounted thingy but anything that is smaller is welcome. Not like I won't have a need for the mast anyway. I still need a better place for my satellite dishes and exterior satellite radio antennas. Thanks for the info! It's always cool to have an "inside source" for things like this.

shawn

[bill]

> Is the Zenith box you have a final design
> and, if so, what's the street date for it? I
> know, it's a couple of years until the big
> switch is thrown so there are bound to be
> further upgrades before that date. It's the
> 17th of February, right? That sticks in my
> mind because that's my birthday.

> Now if you are able to get that good of
> reception with a minimal antenna I'm really
> curious. I'm mulling over putting up a big
> mast mounted thingy but anything that is
> smaller is welcome. Not like I won't have a
> need for the mast anyway. I still need a
> better place for my satellite dishes and
> exterior satellite radio antennas. Thanks
> for the info! It's always cool to have an
> "inside source" for things like
> this.

> shawn

AFAIK it's a pre-production model. I don't have a street date, and if I did I'd likely not be able to tell you. Note that this puppy does not have component or s-video outputs; those would make it ineligible under the subsidy program. It doesn't have a S/PDIF or Toslink output for the same reason. It does have a connector to drive a smart antenna.

The Zenith/LG 5th gen chips are quite remarkable. They won't compensate for low signal level past a certain point, but they have a remarkable capacity for dealing with multipath, which was always the bugaboo of 8VSB. If you're going to put up a mast anyway, you might as well put up a DTV antenna. I'm sure I could do a lot better with a Silver Sensor, which is still a compact indoor antenna.

Most of the stations I watched are putting out multiple programs per channel. Cable usually strips off all but the primary program, but if you watch off-air you get them all. For instance, the second PBS station in this market was carrying a program on wood turning on its second channel. Both the ABC and NBC affiliates have 24-hour weather. And the Fox station carries MyNetworkTV on its second channel and vice versa. If you were to watch these stations on cable, you'd never know that. And if you have satellite, you're far better off getting your local channels off the air than off the dish. The picture quality is almost certain to be better.

Like I said, I don't want to give this box back, but there's a list of folks waiting to try it for themselves.

Best regards,
Bill

[shawn_a]

I was thinking that it had to be a prototype. Too much can, and probably will, happen in the next year or so before the Big Off of Analog Television (my new acronym, BOAT!) My buddy mounted a DTV aerial on his roof and believe me, I was sold on the BOAT immediately. It was so cool to pick up the PBS-HD feed. We spent the first night just checking out all the additional sub-channels that the cable company was stripping off the signal.

We can get pretty good reception of the digital feeds here in town. Oddly enough, it's a pain to pick up WISH-TV's signal from Indy. All the other Indianapolis stations come in fine but WISH is a big no-go. We even managed to pull in a station out of Kentucky one evening. My buddy and I are a bit overly-geeky about seeing how far away we can get signals from. It re-ignited our quest for his AM radio reception. On any given night he can get listenable programming from Denver but that's as far west we've been able to pull in so far. But I digress, totally.

I'm not as much worried about myself when it comes to the set-top boxes, it's my mother I'm thinking about. She just bought a new set last year and I know she will be less than willing to buy another one in two years as will be many millions more. Me, I'm getting ready for the BOAT now. I need to see if my buddy is really serious about selling me his 65" Mitsubishi HD rear projection set. It's a super nice picture and absolutely rocks on HD programming. We didn't get a chance to watch much of the baseball playoffs this year but last year it was a treat.

shawn

[bill]

Make sure that Mitsu has a DTV tuner in it. It might just be "DTV-ready", with baseband connections and only an NTSC tuner. Make sure it also has HDMI or DVI inputs that support HDCP, or you're not going to get HD playback off any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disk players.

You have been warned.

Best regards,
Bill

> I was thinking that it had to be a
> prototype. Too much can, and probably will,
> happen in the next year or so before the Big
> Off of Analog Television (my new acronym,
> BOAT!) My buddy mounted a DTV aerial on his
> roof and believe me, I was sold on the BOAT
> immediately. It was so cool to pick up the
> PBS-HD feed. We spent the first night just
> checking out all the additional sub-channels
> that the cable company was stripping off the
> signal.

> We can get pretty good reception of the
> digital feeds here in town. Oddly enough,
> it's a pain to pick up WISH-TV's signal from
> Indy. All the other Indianapolis stations
> come in fine but WISH is a big no-go. We
> even managed to pull in a station out of
> Kentucky one evening. My buddy and I are a
> bit overly-geeky about seeing how far away
> we can get signals from. It re-ignited our
> quest for his AM radio reception. On any
> given night he can get listenable
> programming from Denver but that's as far
> west we've been able to pull in so far. But
> I digress, totally.

> I'm not as much worried about myself when it
> comes to the set-top boxes, it's my mother
> I'm thinking about. She just bought a new
> set last year and I know she will be less
> than willing to buy another one in two years
> as will be many millions more. Me, I'm
> getting ready for the BOAT now. I need to
> see if my buddy is really serious about
> selling me his 65" Mitsubishi HD rear
> projection set. It's a super nice picture
> and absolutely rocks on HD programming. We
> didn't get a chance to watch much of the
> baseball playoffs this year but last year it
> was a treat.

> shawn

[mikebw]

Blu-ray and HD-DVD players don't have component video outs?

> Make sure that Mitsu has a DTV tuner in it.
> It might just be "DTV-ready", with
> baseband connections and only an NTSC tuner.
> Make sure it also has HDMI or DVI inputs
> that support HDCP, or you're not going to
> get HD playback off any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray
> disk players.

> You have been warned.

> Best regards,
> Bill

[bill]

> Blu-ray and HD-DVD players don't have
> component video outs?

They may, but the content owners can instruct the player to down-res them or turn them off when playing protected content. That way pirates can't steal the unprotected analog signal.

I'm not advocating for or against this, but it is what it is and you need to be aware of it.

Best regards,
Bill

[shawn_a]

It has DVI input (not too sure about HDMI) and has an onboard HD tuner. I know this because I spent too much time behind the damn thing getting everything hooked up just-so. It was at that time I decided to give ole Donald some decent speaker connectors. I unplugged the crappy ones he had installed a few dozen times just by looking at them wrong.

I'll be talking with him tomorrow to see what his thoughts are about the whole deal. He mentioned it while under a lot of stress (sick dog that later passed away) so I'm not holding him to it one bit. To be honest, I really don't *want* a big hulking set like that in my living room but I wouldn't pass it up if the price was right. It's just too nice of a unit to say no.

shawn

[envisionelec]

> As all you fine folks know by now, analog TV
> broadcasting is going away in February 2009.
> After that, you'll have to use a DTV
> tuner/converter box in front of your TV if
> you want off-air reception.

> Recognizing this, and also recognizing that
> there would be a popular uprising if
> Americans suddenly had to replace all their
> analog TVs, Congress mandated a program
> whereby some of the proceeds from the
> auction of the old analog TV channels would
> be used to subsidize the purchase of these
> converter boxes. The details haven't been
> worked out yet, but a couple of companies
> have developed prototype converters with
> target retail prices under $100 before the
> subsidy.

> I've now had a couple of evenings to play
> with the Zenith box. I'm in love. No, it
> won't give you true HD on an NTSC set;
> that's not possible. However, it works quite
> well, and the 5th generation tuner chip is
> close to miraculous. I have the converter
> installed on the TV in my family room, on
> the first floor. I'm using a cheap UHF
> bow-tie antenna, the kind that used to come
> with the rabbit ears you got with older TVs.
> It's sitting on top of my TV cabinet. I'm 20
> miles from the Empire State Building, where
> most of New York's TV transmitters are. I'm
> getting clean reception on all Manhattan
> transmitters, including WNET, the PBS
> station, which is transmitting on low power
> on Channel 12 (VHF) I'm also getting two
> Long Island channels and at least one New
> Jersey channel. There is some occasional
> breakup when a plane flies through the
> signal path, but otherwise it's clean. With
> a minimal outdoor antenna I'm sure reception
> would be perfect.

> The downconverted video and audio are clean
> and noise free. The box supports AFD (Active
> Format Description), so it will
> automatically chnge image size to match what
> the station is transmitting as soon as
> stations implement this feature (the
> standards have just been completed.) It also
> has a pretty good program guide, which is
> driven by the PSIP information that stations
> are required to broadcast.

> It's a tiny box, about 6" x 6" x
> 1-1/2" high. It's almost smaller than
> the remote control that comes with it
> (though the final remote may be different.)
> Setup is easy and painless; push a couple of
> buttons and let it scan for a few minutes.

> I really don't want to give it back. And if
> you do go buy a DTV, look for one with the
> 5th generation tuner chip. It makes a
> tremendous difference.

> Best regards,
> Bill

Bill, I have been putting off (for years!) the purchase of a new set in anticipation for this new standard/revision. Do you know of a website or forum that contains more of this "bleeding edge" information that I can follow?

[bill]

Provided Link: Mark Schubin's Monday memo


> Bill, I have been putting off (for years!)
> the purchase of a new set in anticipation
> for this new standard/revision. Do you know
> of a website or forum that contains more of
> this "bleeding edge" information
> that I can follow?

Start with Mark Schubin's Monday memo. It's heavily oriented towards production, but he covers receiver technology pretty well too. I've known Mark for years and value his opinion highly.

You could also try the OpenDTV forum, though I dropped off that years ago because the heat-to-light ratio was getting too high.

Both are archived, so you can get a feel for the content before you subscribe.

HTH,
Bill