The Schumakubins Rawk

[bogie]

Campers, if y'all are looking to cook up a pair of speaks that won't even come anywhere near needing a sub, these are what you're looking for.

Fired 'em up in the living room with 255 watts/side behind 'em, and the subs turned off, and they played loud and proud. Not quite as "big" a sound as the maggies/sealed Q15 boxes, but then again, you're not looking at $550 + $200 + $180 or so either... The things are DEFINITE bang for buck winners... Nice pronounced low end - things that "pop" in the music are just _there_. The only thing that I didn't completely dig was the high end - thought they sounded like they were playing a little roughish with some of the highs, but that's probably just me...

The DAC works. Not a bad sound, but I think I like the chips in my Sony (not the low end, and well reviewed...) a bit better. Thing is probably definitely worth the cash for mating with a low end DVD player. Anyone want it?

Also did a little listening to the unmodded Insignias... All present (Me, Pete, and my bud DaveZ) are continually amazed at how good a $20 speaker can sound... Then we plugged in the speaks I bought from Aric last week (I was _sure_ someone else would bid...). Consensus was nice lows, but the midbass was a little "forward." Okay, it reached out and beeyotchslapped us a bit... Definite bar speakers, get the booties boogiein' on the dance floor... A little cutting between high 200s to low 500s (a nice little smilie...) on the EQ and things were a bit flatter... After the guys left, and the "children" finished poisoning their minds with my horror movie collection (nothing is scary enough...), Jen and I watched Monster House, and the things performed admirably...

Well, my goal is to get the Twin Towers o' Whoopass finished this week (and Jen doesn't know yet, but she's going to help me glue 'em up)... Pete's already got dibs on the bones of the Big Cans...

[AJ]

Quads may be under-way even sooner...

AHHHGAGAGH! I can't wait!!!

[bogie]

Just seem like they're doing a lot more than they _should_ be doing... According to my figs in WinISD, they should be running out of xmax at about 50 watts... They were cooking along nicely with some good low peaks included (Brothers in Arms), but working and sounding a LOT better than the plots look... Not sure where their "top end" is, but they would definitely play loud enough that you couldn't have a conversation in the room without a lot of gesturing and waving around...

A four-driver (or more... heh, heh, heh...) low end could bring even more fun. The things are pretty too...

Pete, where did you tune 'em? The bass quality is more "sealedish" than I expected from ported speaks...

[AJ]

I think i remember him saying he tuned them very low for a sealish like roll-off. I'm just gonna go sealed for mine. I think i also remember him saying that the K1 needed a higher XO point than what the da175's really like. I'll be using the 27tbfc with a 1500hz XO point.

[bogie]

If my NSB towers don't cut it, I'm going to try a pair of 'em, and some sealed satellites... Power handling actually looks better with the satellites, especially after you add in some highpass crossover action. A 60hz highpass shows me 112db 1w/1m, and the response curves look pretty much the same, with a wee edge to the vented. Bump the AVR's crossover to 80hz, and there's no way you'll self-destruct 'em...

They've got a nice big sound, and I think that they'll reach out and touch you with movies... Woulda been nice to have tried 'em out in The Bunker, but I wasn't gonna even think about carrying 'em back up the steps.

> I think i remember him saying he tuned them
> very low for a sealish like roll-off. I'm
> just gonna go sealed for mine. I think i
> also remember him saying that the K1 needed
> a higher XO point than what the da175's
> really like. I'll be using the 27tbfc with a
> 1500hz XO point.

[AJ]

> They've got a nice big sound, and I think
> that they'll reach out and touch you with
> movies...

With my p-230 or sx1250, they should have the potential to do some damage in my small room. Hell, i'm listening to an MT using the da175 right now, and it sure does have some impact> I can't wait till' i power up those quads...

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> With my p-230 or sx1250, they should have
> the potential to do some damage in my small
> room. Hell, i'm listening to an MT using the
> da175 right now, and it sure does have some
> impact> I can't wait till' i power up
> those quads...

They ARE power hogs. That receiver won't be too much for them. I'd say a 250W amp would be about right. That let's you have about 25W music power with 50W RMS transients on the low end. Remember, 10W will just barely get them over 92dB, and with 10:1 peak to average during music, that 100W amp will be all used up.

But I'll GA-RAWN-TEE that a pair of those things in your room will be administering CPR with a 100W amp. But since you're going sealed, you will reach over excursion much sooner than the vented versions. Go easy on the volume knob, or kick in a 40Hz highpass.

[bogie]

What do you think xlim is with them? Looking at them, I was suspecting that they were excursing past xmax...

> They ARE power hogs. That receiver won't be
> too much for them. I'd say a 250W amp would
> be about right. That let's you have about
> 25W music power with 50W RMS transients on
> the low end. Remember, 10W will just barely
> get them over 92dB, and with 10:1 peak to
> average during music, that 100W amp will be
> all used up.

> But I'll GA-RAWN-TEE that a pair of those
> things in your room will be administering
> CPR with a 100W amp. But since you're going
> sealed, you will reach over excursion much
> sooner than the vented versions. Go easy on
> the volume knob, or kick in a 40Hz highpass.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> What do you think xlim is with them? Looking
> at them, I was suspecting that they were
> excursing past xmax...

I'd GUESS that Xlim is somewhere around 12mm p-p. But that a pure guess. Listed Xmax is just over 4mm one way.

Yeah . . . that's why I'm conjuring up 6 or 9 drivers per cabinet . . . just to be different!!!

[AJ]

> They ARE power hogs. That receiver won't be
> too much for them. I'd say a 250W amp would
> be about right. That let's you have about
> 25W music power with 50W RMS transients on
> the low end. Remember, 10W will just barely
> get them over 92dB, and with 10:1 peak to
> average during music, that 100W amp will be
> all used up.

The pioneer is good for 150wrms, and the hafler will do 125 so i should be good. Someday i'll upgrade to a Crown xls. Someday...

> But I'll GA-RAWN-TEE that a pair of those
> things in your room will be administering
> CPR with a 100W amp. But since you're going
> sealed, you will reach over excursion much
> sooner than the vented versions. Go easy on
> the volume knob, or kick in a 40Hz highpass.

My max volume limit is 100db, i like my ears. I honestly have only bottomed my single da175's once. I plan on going sealed for the quads, but in 2ft^3 i can still port and gain ~10hz or so on the lowend.

[AJ]

I've pushed mine past xmax but they hard to actually bottom out. I'd suspect at least 10mm.

[ryanscott]

Wish I could have come this weekend, it just didn't work out. I'd be up for another casual gathering in the coming weeks ... even a weeknight. I'll have my 2.5 way towers running, probably Tuesday - 2 GR M-165x 7"ers and a GR T2 tweet. I'd love input on tweaking the xovers. I'll also have something made up with my Focal TC120TD5 tweets and 4 RS180's soon, maybe open baffle.

Petes towers certainly sound and look fantastic. Getting some camaraderie (and competition) going in the STL would be a lot of fun Since I just got started really 4 weeks ago, I have a lot of learning to do! But working from home is an unfair advantage, haha.

Those Insignia are a deal too. I have a pretty modded pair hanging from my walls, using them as presence channels on my Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver ... but also used them in my bedroom for 2 channel and they are satisfying modded. But their 'hollowness' in stock form was noticable.

What's this DAC you're talking about? I could use one for my too-be downstairs system. I have an early 90's Sony CD player and Tandberg TR-2045 receiver, I think a decent DAC would be perfect for that system. I have lots of stuff I could trade :-)

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> The pioneer is good for 150wrms, and the
> hafler will do 125 so i should be good.
> Someday i'll upgrade to a Crown xls.
> Someday...

> My max volume limit is 100db, i like my
> ears. I honestly have only bottomed my
> single da175's once. I plan on going sealed
> for the quads, but in 2ft^3 i can still port
> and gain ~10hz or so on the lowend.

One more thing . . .

PORT.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> Pete, where did you tune 'em? The bass
> quality is more "sealedish" than I
> expected from ported speaks...

A maximally extended flat bass response for these would have been in about 3.5 cubic feet tuned to 32Hz. I cut the volume to 2.6 cubic feet and lowered tuning to 24Hz. That accounts for the sealed quality to the sound. The slopes at cutoff follow more closely a 2nd order box response to F10. I sacrificed a bit higher F3 for a greatly extended F10 and a smaller box.

[bogie]

Dude, go with the 2.6 cubes and low port. Then, if you decide you don't like it, nerf the port.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

[AJ]

Alright! 9" W/48"T/15"D. 2.6ft^3 after bracing. Whats the port length Pete? Did you use any absorbing material? Did you try the carpet?

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> Alright! 9" W/48"T/15"D.
> 2.6ft^3 after bracing. Whats the port length
> Pete? Did you use any absorbing material?
> Did you try the carpet?

I didn't do the carpet. Fiberglas batts along half the walls protruding about half way into the enclosure volume. 3" port 10" long.