I am about to cheat - help !!

[snj]

I have had two Denons; the latest being the AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made a solemn vow of love and devotion.

Last weekend, while diligently working our way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I argued about the difference in quality b/w Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt - how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and once I made sure no one I knew was looking, I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

Les't just say I am very close to cheating on Denon.

Your thoughts.

[kenc]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.

In years past in the days of analog controls,etc, Yamaha's were notorious for having a more "bright" presentation, while Denons tended to sound more on the warm side. A few years back Yamaha completely redesigned their platforms (along with just about everyone else) and now I find they sound similar to most a/v receivers - the differences are a lot less noticeable than they were in the old days. Denon still has a tad of that warmth some people find appealing, though I would suggest not as exaggerated as before. Yamaha's are pretty neutral sounding now. Guess it's all about finding which one rubs you the right way.

A few years back I had trouble with 2 Marantz receivers. I managed to talk to a few different techies who actually work on these things when shopping for a new one. They all separately mentioned to me that Yamaha seems to have a slight step up in terms of consistent reliability and build quality, for whatever that's worth. Above the entry level units I don't often hear of failures from any manufacturer, and sooner or later everyone makes a lemon. That's what warranties are for. I wouldn't hesitate to own a Denon if the right deal came along.

If you need a new unit, just buy whichever one meets your needs for the best price. If one is a bit more expensive but is obviously better in your eyes (or to your ears), you know what to do.

I own amps/receivers from 6 different companies right now. I'm not exactly a good example of brand loyalty. When someone tells me one brand is inherently better than the other I tend to discount the advice.

[blair]

I love my Yamaha! It is easy to use and does not seem to run out of steam at all in very demanding movie scenes even with 87db efficient speakers at moderate-high volume levels.

Good luck!

Blair

[JustinG]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.

Right now I have the RX-V2500 probably quite similar to the 2700 you are looking at, aside from the latest and greatest features (HDMI and others). The set up with Yamahas is quite simple, accurate and easily tweaked (YPAO).

Yamahas are known for their ability to drive pretty low impedences that they aren't "rated" for. Running 4 ohm speakers will make them work harder but they can do it, and I've heard they don't put up a fuss. I have a MTM center that drops pretty low (all drivers are 8 ohms, mids in parallel), but all my other speakers are 8 ohm. I've never felt the reciever get warm even while running 7 channels at pretty high levels.

Sorry for the Yamaha "fan boy" post but I realy do enjoy this receiver and love all the different ambient (DSP) settings.

[nathan]

I've got a RX-V3000 and absolutely love it.

[wingnut]

I concur with Ken. Oddly bright and a bit grainy.

I once tied the knot with a Yammi, but it only lasted a week. She just didn't do it for me. Her bright, grainy voice was very irritating and fatiguing. Needless to say I had the marriage annulled at the customer service counter of Best Buy.

I ended up with a Denon avr3000. She was on her second go around, but I didn't care. Her seductive wiles (good looks, voluptuous caps and transformer) coupled with rumors of great performance pushed me over the edge. I wasn't disappointed either. Denon and I have been together now for six years and I wouldn't trade her for anything (I must admit that I do have occasional fantasies of separates – yes polygamy)!

Maybe you and your Denon need some counseling?

Good luck.

[envisionelec]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.

I hear you there. I've owned several Yamaha's over the past years. The older ones did seem bright if you didn't use them correctly. I can't recall what the "feature" was called, but it was very BOSE-like. You would set the main volume knob to a certain point then use a "loudness control" for your volume. That sounded OK at louder volumes, but because bloated at normal listening levels. If you didn't use it, the sound was pretty thin.

My new Yamaha (HTR-5860) doesn't have any of that stupid stuff and sounds fantastic in 2 channel stereo. In fact, it will cleanly drive me out of the living room to the point where it sounds VERY nice in my neighbor's front yard. I haven't found a reason to need separate amps with this receiver. That's how happy I am with it.

[porper]

It's not like you're choosing between Mark Levinson and McIntosh or Conrad-Johnson or Krell or Jadis, etc. etc.

Hell, you're going the Best Buy for this stuff.

I'd say make a choice and enjoy. They're both good midfi gear. Can't go wrong.

[blair]

Thats not true,

I was informed here last week that Yamaha and Denon among all other mid-fi gear sounds just as good as a Krell or Konrad Johnson as long as they are used within the same parameters Heck, that extra $2K can buy alot of CDs.....

Blair

[jtaylor]

Several Years ago I was looking at a Consumer Report Magazine article on Audio equipment. The Denon Product line was rated the most unreliable of the bunch. I believe Yamaha was rated at the top IIRC. Over all the years that I've owned fairly high priced Audio Equipment, Denon was the only equipment that died of a early disorder far before any of my other equipment choices. Yamaha has always worked very well, with no problems in the past 15-20 years.

J. Taylor

[johnastockman]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.

I've owned and sold many brands of gear since the late 70's...from low-fi to high-end. I always paid attention to what languished on the shelf in the service dept. awaiting parts/warranty approval/repair. Two of the more reliable and less-serviced brands were the Yammies and Onkyo. There were others, but Denon & Sony wasn't some of the store/service tech fav's. I still own a few pieces of Yamaha gear that I bought in 1977 (never any problems and they still work great) and I got an HTR series receiver a few years back (only used in 2-channel music). Good SQ and reliability are most important to me, so I pick the stuff that has a good reliabilty record. The Yamaha & Onkyo work well with 4 ohm loads. I know a couple of people that have Denon and like it very much, but I usually don't recommend them.

John A.

[davidsanchez]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.

I own a Yamaha RX-V730 right now and am contemplating an upgrade. However, I will not be purchasing until after September, and here's why: HDMI 1.3a. Onky has already released several models which employ the latest version of HDMI switching and Pioneer Elite and Denon both are supposed to release models with 1.3a switching as well.

"Why is this important?" you ask. Here's why:
"Under the new HDMI 1.3 specification, the clock speed will be increased from 165 MHz to over 225 MHz, said HDMI president of licensing Leslie Chard. The increased bandwidth will allow support for 1080 x 60 Hz displays with 36-bit RGB color, or a 1080p display with a 90 Hz refresh rate. Technically, the specification leaves room for clock rates of up to 450 MHz, Chard said." (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...975596,00.asp) Among other things, this greater bit depth and clock speed allows for billions of different colors as opposed to the 16.7 million currently available. This will allow for much more natural image reproduction.

As well, HDMI 1.3a will allow for the concurrent transmission and decoding of HD surround informations (DTS Master, Dolby Lossless, etc.). Currently, the latest generation of Onkyo receivers are the only one that decode these formats, but other brands and models will be available over the next couple of months.

So, with that being said, anyone can wait for a couple of months to make the upgrade, and, if you wait, you won't feel like you wasted your money (hopefully).

David

[tweeder]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.

I was at Best Buy the other day and noticed some HK receivers (the ones with the big, cool blue volume knob!). While I have never owned Denon, I have owned a couple of Yamaha's - IMHO a good value for the money. But you might want to try an audition of the HK's and Yamahas back to back. Might be worth the effort.

I've owned my HK AVR120 for about 5 years with no problems - it's my fav!

[envisionelec]

> Thats not true,

> I was informed here last week that Yamaha
> and Denon among all other mid-fi gear sounds
> just as good as a Krell or Konrad Johnson as
> long as they are used within the same
> parameters Heck, that extra $2K can buy
> alot of CDs.....

> Blair

Wow. Who said THAT? You can't get the same parameters of a high end audio amplifier to even compare to an "all in one" mid-fi receiver. Then again, if you've disconnected all the DSP and completely gutted everything but the power amplifier - then I might agree with you. To a point.

[blair]

God knows, it was a funny anyway

I like my tubes.......

Blair

[johnnail]

> I have had two Denons; the latest being the
> AVR-95. I had vowed never to buy anything
> but Denon that's how much I loved it! I made
> a solemn vow of love and devotion.

> Last weekend, while diligently working our
> way thru a case of Heineken, a friend and I
> argued about the difference in quality b/w
> Denon and Yahama. My feelings were hurt -
> how dare he. But I snuck out to Best Buy and
> once I made sure no one I knew was looking,
> I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V2700 and
> compared it to the Denon AVR 2807.

> Les't just say I am very close to cheating
> on Denon.

> Your thoughts.
There are alot of people who like Yamaha....and it is a fairly good product. In the "Best Buy" price range, I imagine there isn't very much difference in performance between the Yamaha stuff and the Denon stuff. That level of Denon is not the stuff made is Japan...it is Taiwan or China made stuff.....same as Yamaha. And as for reliability, I can't say anything one way or the other for either brand. But, if you get the upper end Denon VS the lower end Denon, the difference is like night and day. The amps on the Japan made upper end Denon's are all match-grade stuff....hand selected and matched. The transistors of the amps are the King Kong models of high-current devices. I believe the cutoff of the range is going to be the AVR3306....this one and the upper models are the ones of the Denon to get. They will literally run any speaker you through at them...I know, I own an AVR 4802 (3-4 years old) and I have had speakers on them that swing down as low as 2.5 ohm minimum....and the amps have never run out of power, never entered protection mode, nor have they ever gotten hot to the touch. A friend of mine bought an AVR 3802 through EBay vendor....a NON-authorized dealer....for a sweet price, but I advised paying a little more for the 4802 series...which was another $1000 on sale. She didn't....the one she has is running a used pair of NHT VT-2 towers (my old reference speakers) and if she pushes the volume up too high, the protection kicks in. The amps run pretty hot all the time as well. The thing is rated at 90 watts/channel, but the amp output devices aren't the King Kong models...so they run hotter.
If you are sticking to a budget of $500-600 or less...then I would go with the Yamaha....they seem to have a good product that has a good reputation for reliability....BUT, if you maximum fidelity, super clean amplification that never runs short of power and can run low impedance speakers....and want it to last 10-20 years...the go with the upper level Denon products. There are definite differences between the upper and lower Denon lines...not just price, but construction quality, sound quality, and reliability.

Just my 2 cents.

John

[mike1234]

There are some great used bargains out there. I love my old Forte Model 4 amps. They're higly detailed like the best SS, yet are never harsh... more like tubes. You can find good used Forte Model 4's for as little as $400.

[bogie]

Dude, with low-end receivers, what really matters most is how ergonomic the remote is, and how easy the menus/setup navigates.