BR1 x-over midification

[panterra]

I am taking advantage of the current sale and free shipping to assemble my 2nd kit. But this time I want to try assembling it with the x-over that was reccommended before. I understand that i won't be able to used much if none of the kit's included electronic pieces. That is why I waited till they went on sale. Could someone provide the link to the schematic and specs, I seen it posted before. This project will also, since I am such a noob at building, give me a little lesson in going from a schematic to a finished x-over. How will the different x-over improve the sound?

[donradick]

> I am taking advantage of the current sale
> and free shipping to assemble my 2nd kit.
> But this time I want to try assembling it
> with the x-over that was reccommended
> before. I understand that i won't be able to
> used much if none of the kit's included
> electronic pieces. That is why I waited till
> they went on sale. Could someone provide the
> link to the schematic and specs, I seen it
> posted before. This project will also, since
> I am such a noob at building, give me a
> little lesson in going from a schematic to a
> finished x-over. How will the different
> x-over improve the sound?

Here's the best crossover for the BR-1
<A HREF="http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html">http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html</A>

Here's a good tutorial for building a crossover
<A HREF="http://www.parts-express.com/project...ver/xover.html">http://www.parts-express.com/project...ver/xover.html</A>

and another one:
<A HREF="http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_fi...xo/xoconst.htm">http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_fi...xo/xoconst.htm</A>

and the best one:
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/nodal_analysis.html">http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/nodal_analysis.html</A>

HTH
-Don

[panterra]

> Here's the best crossover for the BR-1
>
> <A HREF="http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html">http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html</A>
> Here's a good tutorial for building a
> crossover
>
> <A HREF="http://www.parts-express.com/project...ver/xover.html">http://www.parts-express.com/project...ver/xover.html</A>
> and another one:
>
> <A HREF="http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_fi...xo/xoconst.htm">http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_fi...xo/xoconst.htm</A>
> and the best one:
>
> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/nodal_analysis.html">http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/nodal_analysis.html</A>
> HTH
> -Don

Thanks Don, that will help a lot. Will I be able to use the included circuit board or will it require making it from scratch, mounting all the pieces on a piece of wood, or something?

[donradick]

> Thanks Don, that will help a lot. Will I be
> able to use the included circuit board or
> will it require making it from scratch,
> mounting all the pieces on a piece of wood,
> or something?

I don't know that crossover board.
I'm pretty sure you will need to build your own.
Use a piece of perforated hardboard - if you can find 1/8 inch it will be easiest, otherwise 1/4 inch is fine.

Use tutorial #3 "nodal analysis", and layout your components (over a couple of beers.....). Where the components connect to each other, push them through the nearest hole, twist them and solder, then bend them leads flush with the board. You will need to tie-wrap the inductors to the board, and you can tie-wrap caps and resistors also, or just hot-glue them to the board. Mark inputs and outputs with "plus" and "minus", and tie-wrap a foot or so of wire to connect to your drivers and input jacks. You will want to test your crossovers for a few days prior to completion, so use extra wire so you can do this. (Mistakes can happen...)
Mount your crossover in the cab with short screws or velcro.

You might like to just modify one speaker to start, and do a comparison of the new to the old.

-Don

[dennismurphy]

Good advice. And yes, a new board will be needed. Also make sure you notice that the main discussion on my page is for the unshielded version. I have a mod for the shielded at the bottom of the page.

[panterra]

> Good advice. And yes, a new board will be
> needed. Also make sure you notice that the
> main discussion on my page is for the
> unshielded version. I have a mod for the
> shielded at the bottom of the page.

Thanks Dennis,

I ordered the standard version. The thing is, I will be comparing it to the shielded version with the kit crossover. Will that be a "too apples-and-organges" comparison, or is it the shielded and non-shielded close enough for a reliable comparison? And what will I be listening for?

[Pete Schumacher ®]

> I don't know that crossover board.
> I'm pretty sure you will need to build your
> own.
> Use a piece of perforated hardboard - if you
> can find 1/8 inch it will be easiest,
> otherwise 1/4 inch is fine.

> Use tutorial #3 "nodal analysis",
> and layout your components (over a couple of
> beers.....). Where the components connect to
> each other, push them through the nearest
> hole, twist them and solder, then bend them
> leads flush with the board. You will need to
> tie-wrap the inductors to the board, and you
> can tie-wrap caps and resistors also, or
> just hot-glue them to the board. Mark inputs
> and outputs with "plus" and
> "minus", and tie-wrap a foot or so
> of wire to connect to your drivers and input
> jacks. You will want to test your crossovers
> for a few days prior to completion, so use
> extra wire so you can do this. (Mistakes can
> happen...)
> Mount your crossover in the cab with short
> screws or velcro.

> You might like to just modify one speaker to
> start, and do a comparison of the new to the
> old.

> -Don

If you even intend on transporting your speakers, road vibrations can cause hot glue bonds to quit. Much better is caulk or epoxy.

Otherwise, all great suggestions.

My experience with hot glue has left me wanting . . . \:v(

[AJ]

Use of hot glue in conjunction with zipties is a better plan. No problems.

[donradick]

> If you even intend on transporting your
> speakers, road vibrations can cause hot glue
> bonds to quit. Much better is caulk or
> epoxy.

> Otherwise, all great suggestions.

> My experience with hot glue has left me
> wanting . . . \:v(

I agree. A couple of times I used hot glue and it failed pretty easily. Silicon caulk holds great but it's toxic. Paint and MDF dust are bad enough.
Next project, perfboard, zip ties, and hot glue.

While I've got you guys here, what do you think about terminal strips or euro-style terminals for crossovers? Seems like they can make the layout very neat, but not a lot of folks use them.

-Don

[dennismurphy]

I think the stock shielded crossover works a little better than the unshielded. But you should still be able to hear some improvement in the upper midrange, lower treble. The modified should sound fuller--have more presence--in that area. It should be patricularly evident on brass and program material with lots of instruments.

[Paul K.]

I've always used clear, silicone sealant to mount my crossover components. It has a vinegar-type odor that completely evaporates in a day, and I've never had a part come loose during transit. I used the Euro-style terminal power strips for inputs and outputs.
Paul K.

> I agree. A couple of times I used hot glue
> and it failed pretty easily. Silicon caulk
> holds great but it's toxic. Paint and MDF
> dust are bad enough.
> Next project, perfboard, zip ties, and hot
> glue.

> While I've got you guys here, what do you
> think about terminal strips or euro-style
> terminals for crossovers? Seems like they
> can make the layout very neat, but not a lot
> of folks use them.

> -Don

[jonpike]

> I agree. A couple of times I used hot glue
> and it failed pretty easily. Silicon caulk
> holds great but it's toxic. Paint and MDF
> dust are bad enough.
> Next project, perfboard, zip ties, and hot
> glue.

I've noticed the "easy breakage" capability of hot melt glue joints. Helps a little to de-fingergrease the surfaces with alcohol, but especially on those slick plastic cap wrappers, some surfaces just don;t make for a strong joint. I also worry about heat damage to soft polyproplyne caps with that 3-400F glue... but must be not a big problem.

I've been liking perfboard and tie wraps for the organization it adds, and for temporary layout. When done, glue up! Though, epoxy would be the best for a truly final, long term joint.

On the silicone glue, the smell really is vinegar, since the curing agent is Acetic acid. Not really toxic, but some worry about corrosion. Let it dry out a few days before putting the drivers in and it's gone. There is a non-smelling, no AA based type, less corrosive for applying to sensitive things, don't know what's in that.

[donradick]

> I've always used clear, silicone sealant to
> mount my crossover components. It has a
> vinegar-type odor that completely evaporates
> in a day, and I've never had a part come
> loose during transit. I used the Euro-style
> terminal power strips for inputs and
> outputs.
> Paul K.

Do you just use regular stranded copper for interconnects, or do you prepare the ends in any way for the Euro style terminal blocks? Looks like it's not gas tight, and I worry about long term stability.

Looks very clean, though.

-don

[Paul K.]

I use solid 18-gage copper wire for interconnecting components when their leads aren't long enough and for connecting components to the Euro-style terminal blocks. I haven't had any come loose or deterioate AFAIK.
Paul

> Do you just use regular stranded copper for
> interconnects, or do you prepare the ends in
> any way for the Euro style terminal blocks?
> Looks like it's not gas tight, and I worry
> about long term stability.

> Looks very clean, though.

> -don

[paulv]

PLEASE...use only the blue colored corrosion-free silicone available at auto parts stores. It's specially formulated to prevent chemical fume reactions with engine system sensors and for making gaskets.

As a serendipity, it comes in a convenient toothpaste style tube and it's much easier to work with than the clear "vinegar" silicone.

> I've noticed the "easy breakage"
> capability of hot melt glue joints. Helps a
> little to de-fingergrease the surfaces with
> alcohol, but especially on those slick
> plastic cap wrappers, some surfaces just
> don;t make for a strong joint. I also worry
> about heat damage to soft polyproplyne caps
> with that 3-400F glue... but must be not a
> big problem.

> I've been liking perfboard and tie wraps for
> the organization it adds, and for temporary
> layout. When done, glue up! Though, epoxy
> would be the best for a truly final, long
> term joint.

> On the silicone glue, the smell really is
> vinegar, since the curing agent is Acetic
> acid. Not really toxic, but some worry about
> corrosion. Let it dry out a few days before
> putting the drivers in and it's gone. There
> is a non-smelling, no AA based type, less
> corrosive for applying to sensitive things,
> don't know what's in that.

[Mr.Thomas Aaron Hero]

Why use glue at all? I just strap them down with nylon ties,they dont move and if you want to change something just cut a tie or two.

Aaron

[paulv]

Aaron,

Beautiful design & execution on those networks.

The attachment methodology was not the intended subject of my post.

It was meant only as an alternative consideration to the norm for those that wish to secure components using a silcone based adhesive.

Those much more qulaified than I may wish to debate the most effective method.

Once again, you display superb HQ work.

P

> Why use glue at all? I just strap them down
> with nylon ties,they dont move and if you
> want to change something just cut a tie or
> two.

> Aaron