Powered Subwoofer

[nepaeric]

Hi. First of all, I'd like to thank those of you who I have had the opportunity of benefitting from your vast DIY experience. I am a bit of a novice at this, and anxious to advance to an intermediate level in this interesting area. I am grateful to my brother, also who guided me towards DIY and Parts Express website, which apparently has an abundance of experienced, helpful individuals who are eager to pass on a wealth of thier knowledge and expertise.

Any way, you might recall, I was inquiring in reference to the quality of the Dayton "Titanic" Subwoofer kits, which primarily attracted me due to thier promise of satisfying, quality bass in kit, DIY form that would provide the performance of commercial units costing twice as much or more. I am always a bit cynical when it comes to believing advertising of salespeople and exaggerated specifications, as there are many fads and "snakeoils" that attempt to masquerade as being "audiophile grade" quality. Or they use language such as, "Digital Ready." What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Anyway, many of you seem confident in trusting the quality and value in Dayton drivers, and have instilled enough reinforcement in me to believe I am not buying one of those "pie in the sky" products of the mass market. I decided to forgo the idea of the Pioneer Butyl 10" driver so highly recommended by my brother. We revisited this discussion, and I shared many of the thoughts with him that you all provided as input. He also agreed, that due to the low Xmax and other variables of these drivers, although superior in high fidelity quality for music tracks for the modest price, they would likely not serve well in a home theater set up. He did suggest that for the price they are absolutely (from his experience) the value leader for accurate sound reproduction, and offer a real "bang-for-the-buck" approaching and often exceeding levels of quality of higher priced units.- Just not appropriate for movie tracks of HT. I have elected to take the advise of the many of you in trying the RSS 15" Drivers and building 2 powered units. I still have reservations about the plate mount amp usage for many reasons and have not decided what I'm going to do there.

A few questions I have:
1. Which units are you all suggesting? - The RSS390HF-4 High Fidelity version, -OR- the RSS390HO-4 High Output version.
2. Is the cabinet sold through PE for the Titanic 15" kit adequate for the driver we are discussing. (I am the kind of guy that likes to keep things simple, so I am probably looking at a sealed, acoustic suspension type application in a pre-fabricated enclosure.

Thanks again for all of your expert advise, assistance and continued support. Eric

[bobblickle]

Provided Link: Win-ISD


Eric,

Most people were probably referring to the RS-HF however the -HO is a similarly good driver. They each work best in different enclosure sizes and applications.

An easy way to move your knowledge up a notch today would be to download and try WinISD. It is a simple box tuning program which will allow you to answer your own questions about these two drivers in any volume cabinet. You will have to enter the parameters in the "own drivers" section however this only takes a couple min. Here's a tip, always check and set the units before you put in a value.

There is significant value in building your own sub enclosure, both in cost and performance. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with PEs box. I'm just saying Subs respond well to over-built enclosures and that is something you have to do for yourself.

Good Luck,
bb

[philiparcario]

> Eric,

> Most people were probably referring to the
> RS-HF however the -HO is a similarly good
> driver. They each work best in different
> enclosure sizes and applications.

> An easy way to move your knowledge up a
> notch today would be to download and try
> WinISD. It is a simple box tuning program
> which will allow you to answer your own
> questions about these two drivers in any
> volume cabinet. You will have to enter the
> parameters in the "own drivers"
> section however this only takes a couple
> min. Here's a tip, always check and set the
> units before you put in a value.

> There is significant value in building your
> own sub enclosure, both in cost and
> performance. I'm not saying there is
> anything wrong with PEs box. I'm just saying
> Subs respond well to over-built enclosures
> and that is something you have to do for
> yourself.

> Good Luck,
> bb
Eric what state are you in? I want to get 2 15inch rs-hf if we buy 4 there is a discount. phil

[nepaeric]

> Eric what state are you in? I want to get 2
> 15inch rs-hf if we buy 4 there is a
> discount. phil

Hey, Phil. I am in Pennsylvania. I seem to be leaning towards the HF 15"ers, myself, too, based on the information and high praise of this unit here in this forum. Apparently you've done a bit of research on these drivers, and I was just wondering: What would be an appropriate cabinet size in cubic ft for a sealed enclosure to get a Q of .7 or slightly below for the flattest response curve and a tight, yet punchy response? I tend to value bass purity, especially in the upper and middle bass region. Thinking of crossing over at about 500 Hz.- ???

If I could make life simpler, I wouldn't mind purhasing the 15" Titanic kit, except substituting the TIT 400C-4 for the Rss390HF-4, if PE would do it and give me the kit price, less the difference in cost on the 2 woofers. The other question is- Would this enclosure be suitable in volume for this unit?

Just curious: What woofer is it that they include with lower priced, 15 inch, Non-Titanic, 240 amplifier kit?

By the way, thanks, Bob Blickle for your input.

Warm Regards, Eric

[philiparcario]

> Hey, Phil. I am in Pennsylvania. I seem to
> be leaning towards the HF 15"ers,
> myself, too, based on the information and
> high praise of this unit here in this forum.
> Apparently you've done a bit of research on
> these drivers, and I was just wondering:
> What would be an appropriate cabinet size in
> cubic ft for a sealed enclosure to get a Q
> of .7 or slightly below for the flattest
> response curve and a tight, yet punchy
> response? I tend to value bass purity,
> especially in the upper and middle bass
> region. Thinking of crossing over at about
> 500 Hz.- ???

> If I could make life simpler, I wouldn't
> mind purhasing the 15" Titanic kit,
> except substituting the TIT 400C-4 for the
> Rss390HF-4, if PE would do it and give me
> the kit price, less the difference in cost
> on the 2 woofers. The other question is-
> Would this enclosure be suitable in volume
> for this unit?

> Just curious: What woofer is it that they
> include with lower priced, 15 inch,
> Non-Titanic, 240 amplifier kit?

> By the way, thanks, Bob Blickle for your
> input.

> Warm Regards, Eric
I live in New jersey 10 miles from great adventure amusement park in howell nj. email me at <A HREF="mailtohiliparcario@yahoo.com">philiparcario@yahoo.com</A> , we can talk more about this and I know about a mod another guy is doing with these subs. It allows a 3 cu ft box and a f3 of 23hz which is outstanding. phil

[Max_Andrews]

Hey Eric,
a subwoofer is meant only to cover the lowest of the low frequencies, a 15" subwoofer will be crossed at 100Hz or lower, more like 80hz. As you've mentioned, your system already sounds quite good, so this would just be filling in the lowest sections from ~100hz on down. 500hz is right about where male vocals would be being reproduced, that is a job best left for the main speakers

[nepaeric]

> Hey Eric,
> a subwoofer is meant only to cover the
> lowest of the low frequencies, a 15"
> subwoofer will be crossed at 100Hz or lower,
> more like 80hz. As you've mentioned, your
> system already sounds quite good, so this
> would just be filling in the lowest sections
> from ~100hz on down. 500hz is right about
> where male vocals would be being reproduced,
> that is a job best left for the main
> speakers

I've always had the impression that on average, most powered subs were designed to cross over in the 250 Hz range, and I have seen many upwards of around 1000 which I am told are prefered by some people. I considered 500 to be, perhaps a median point. Perhaps you are right on that, but what about 250Hz crossover point?

[philiparcario]

> I've always had the impression that on
> average, most powered subs were designed to
> cross over in the 250 Hz range, and I have
> seen many upwards of around 1000 which I am
> told are prefered by some people. I
> considered 500 to be, perhaps a median
> point. Perhaps you are right on that, but
> what about 250Hz crossover point?
You don't want to cross over at 250hz with powered subwoofers the sound will be directional. A lot of subs are just one in a room so directional bass will sound wrong. If all you have is a 2 channel system and the subs are stands under the sats. a Higher crossover point is not as big of a problem. The system would stay as a stereo and be hard to change to a 5.1 in the future. I find the making sats that go to 60hz as a low and crossing them at 80hz and making subs that can do 120hz and crossing them at 80hz works well. I will send you a email. With pictures of my system. phil

[johnastockman]

> Just curious: What woofer is it that they
> include with lower priced, 15 inch,
> Non-Titanic, 240 amplifier kit?

> By the way, thanks, Bob Blickle for your
> input.

> Warm Regards, Eric

Eric, I've put together that 15" sub kit...the one with the cabinet, amp and driver. The driver isn't a Quatro, but it's similar. It's a real nice kit for the price, practically a steal at the price they're asking. The cabinet is well-built, but I added some extra internal bracing. I don't believe they offer the cabinet separately or would substitute a different driver for the Titanic kit. The driver cut-out hole might be a different size anyway. PE does have the 3 cu. ft. enclosure available separately, either with or without amp/driver cut-outs. Just make sure if you get the one that's cut out already, that the driver's dimensions will fit. A call to one of the tech guys can confirm this info for you.

John A.

[nepaeric]

I appreciate all of your help. The 15" Quattro 240W unit sounds nice and like a bargain. Might be nice for a second HT or additional living room stereo, but I'm after more.

I think I am going to buy 2 of the RSS390HF-4 15" drivers and not sure what amp I'm going to go with yet. Unsure if I want to deal with a plate. Running the figures I've been, it looks like I'll be building (2) 4.25 cu ft enclosures of 1/2" Baltic birch 5 ply plywood over 1" MDF for a total thickness of 1-1/4" Hope they'll fill a basement HT of 24'X 56'!

Has anyone had any experiences with the Dayton HPSA 1000-R Subwoofer Amplifier? (I would rather consider this over the Dayton plate 500 or 1000W amps and/or the BASH units.)