Voltage Stabilizer/ Clean power *PIC*

[unknownuser]

I know, I know, most people think that it is impossible to tell, but I can tell the difference in voltage down to .1-.2 volt differences. I tried to look up a unit and the only consumer based company I could find that sells one is Monster Cable, but they charge a ridiculous price of $1600 for one. Is there one that is reasonably priced? Just today I was listening to some music and all of a sudden heard a "mask" over the upper middle area of the sound stage-almost like a muddy type of sound. I then went up to my power cleaner and noticed the voltage had dropped by .3 volts. The voltage difference between 120 and 122 volts doesn't bother me that much, it rather just changes the characteristic of the sound; but when the voltage goes anywhere below 120, it just kills the sound. While it doesn't effect all of my music dramatically, it just makes some somewhat unbearable.

I was also looking at this:

<A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp</A>

<A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp</A>

They claim that adding it to a power cleaner will further filter the sound. (My current one already eliminates 75% of the noise, but it could always be better)

Is it worth it? (Optimistic)

Also to note, whenever I turn my receiver on, the voltage tends to drop by .4 volts at least; is that normal?


(Originally posted by: ÐJ JüŠT-|©E)

[transnova]

> I know, I know, most people think that it is
> impossible to tell, but I can tell the
> difference in voltage down to .1-.2 volt
> differences. I tried to look up a unit and
> the only consumer based company I could find
> that sells one is Monster Cable, but they
> charge a ridiculous price of $1600 for one.
> Is there one that is reasonably priced? Just
> today I was listening to some music and all
> of a sudden heard a "mask" over
> the upper middle area of the sound
> stage-almost like a muddy type of sound. I
> then went up to my power cleaner and noticed
> the voltage had dropped by .3 volts. The
> voltage difference between 120 and 122 volts
> doesn't bother me that much, it rather just
> changes the characteristic of the sound; but
> when the voltage goes anywhere below 120, it
> just kills the sound. While it doesn't
> effect all of my music dramatically, it just
> makes some somewhat unbearable.

> I was also looking at this:

>
> <A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp</A>
> They claim that adding it to a power
> cleaner will further filter the sound. (My
> current one already eliminates 75% of the
> noise, but it could always be better)

> Is it worth it? (Optimistic)

> Also to note, whenever I turn my receiver
> on, the voltage tends to drop by .4 volts at
> least; is that normal?

Sounds to me like your equipment may need service , not a "power cleaner"!

[savantstrike]

You may not be entirely crazy. We have high power at our house, it reads between 120-125Vac (or at least it did when we moved in and my dad tested it). This is a good thing as it gives us a little extra wattage at the outlets, but we also have dirty power. Upon getting our first computer, we had hard disk after hard disk die until we bought a UPS for it. Our first Tivo didn't last two years either. Everything important in our house is either on a UPS or a conditioner. Without power conditioning/upses amps in our house with speakers on them can sometimes have a "clip" noise come out of them when we get a spike or a dip in our power (we do also have air conditioning, thats a pretty large instantaneous drain) and we have a pool with 220V motors.

Anyways, I have noticed that fluctuations in power will affect sound, at least instantaneously. I can't necessarily tell the difference, but right now my reciever is on my computer, and that is on a 1500VA ups with a transformer to smooth the output.

Two things you could do are a LARGE ups (1500VA or larger) or a power conditioner. In our sunroom we have a Tripp-lite 1200W power conditioner, and it has kept errant spikes and crap noise away. The unit itself will make a clicking noise when there is that momentary surge/dip, but nothing through the speakers. It has also managed to stop a buzzing/crapping sound made by a cheap subwoofer we had which made this sound even when turned off.

I recommend one of these power conditioning units as it will keep your gear safe and may solve most of your problem (they even correct for under voltae if it's not too severe or prolonged), But I recommend a larger one, like the 2000W one, because I upgraded my subs and realize now that I'll just sqeak by my HT (in my bedroom for now of course) on 1200W. The extra capacity can never hurt you either.

Beyond a power conditioner there was the balanced power option that was mentinoed a few days ago on this forum, but I don't know the specifics of how exacty that works. It was also around 1500 bucks though. This tripp lite unit will run you between 100 and 200 bucks, and will act as the best darn surge suppessor in the world, and will protect against dips and spikes that cause errant noises.

Beyond that, yeah, your reciever could be dead if it doesnt sound good with SUSTAINED and clean 110V power, seeing as it should work fine on 110V.

I've got a church service to go to this morning, and then I'm building some speakers today (WOOHOO!) but I'll try to get back on later and give you a link to the tripp-lite I'm talking about. I'd say it's probably comparable to the Monster offerings and a lot less expensive (which is why I picked the tripp-lite myself). Monster tends to charge an exorbitant amount of money for products with raw materials that dont justify that cost (UNSHIELDED subwoofer cable for 50 bucks?? I got a TRIPLE shielded acoustic research for the same money).

> I know, I know, most people think that it is
> impossible to tell, but I can tell the
> difference in voltage down to .1-.2 volt
> differences. I tried to look up a unit and
> the only consumer based company I could find
> that sells one is Monster Cable, but they
> charge a ridiculous price of $1600 for one.
> Is there one that is reasonably priced? Just
> today I was listening to some music and all
> of a sudden heard a "mask" over
> the upper middle area of the sound
> stage-almost like a muddy type of sound. I
> then went up to my power cleaner and noticed
> the voltage had dropped by .3 volts. The
> voltage difference between 120 and 122 volts
> doesn't bother me that much, it rather just
> changes the characteristic of the sound; but
> when the voltage goes anywhere below 120, it
> just kills the sound. While it doesn't
> effect all of my music dramatically, it just
> makes some somewhat unbearable.

> I was also looking at this:

>
> <A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp</A>
> They claim that adding it to a power
> cleaner will further filter the sound. (My
> current one already eliminates 75% of the
> noise, but it could always be better)

> Is it worth it? (Optimistic)

> Also to note, whenever I turn my receiver
> on, the voltage tends to drop by .4 volts at
> least; is that normal?

[bangleiii]

It looks like a mov with a pretty led!
worth about $3.

[billfitzmaurice]

> Is it worth it? (Optimistic)

"Converts line noise to light
Works at frequencies 10 times lower than any filter"

While you've got that checkbook ready perhaps you'd be interested in a real estate investment in New Orleans? Sub-prime mortgages available.

[bangleiii]

<A HREF="http://www.tripplite.com/">http://www.tripplite.com/</A>

Honest prices!

[ren]

> I know, I know, most people think that it is
> impossible to tell, but I can tell the
> difference in voltage down to .1-.2 volt
> differences.

I can tell the difference too. I read 0.1 to 0.2V differences by visual stimulation - ie: my eyes looking at a DMM. I can then imagine any difference in sound that I want: Plugging my ears partway when the voltage changes has a wonderful veiling effect on the upper midrange. And two fingers (if you have them) are free.

[philiparcario]

> <A HREF="http://www.tripplite.com/">http://www.tripplite.com/</A> Honest prices!
Buy a tripplite lc1800 it is a line conditoner up to 1800 watts. then buy two tropplite is1000 isolation transformers upto 1000watts.. plug the two is1000 into the lc1800 and you will not have electrical issues. they can be found well under list. at <A HREF="http://www.provantage.com">www.provantage.com</A> 137.26 for the line conditioner and 196 a piece for the isloater

[mikelytle]

Provided Link: click me


check this out.

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-PureAV">http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-PureAV</A>%C2%AE-Theater-Technology-AP30800fc10-BLK/dp/B000T9DHZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1195309427&sr =8-1

> I know, I know, most people think that it is
> impossible to tell, but I can tell the
> difference in voltage down to .1-.2 volt
> differences. I tried to look up a unit and
> the only consumer based company I could find
> that sells one is Monster Cable, but they
> charge a ridiculous price of $1600 for one.
> Is there one that is reasonably priced? Just
> today I was listening to some music and all
> of a sudden heard a "mask" over
> the upper middle area of the sound
> stage-almost like a muddy type of sound. I
> then went up to my power cleaner and noticed
> the voltage had dropped by .3 volts. The
> voltage difference between 120 and 122 volts
> doesn't bother me that much, it rather just
> changes the characteristic of the sound; but
> when the voltage goes anywhere below 120, it
> just kills the sound. While it doesn't
> effect all of my music dramatically, it just
> makes some somewhat unbearable.

> I was also looking at this:

>
> <A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester.asp</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp">http://www.psaudio.com/products/nois...r_overview.asp</A>
> They claim that adding it to a power
> cleaner will further filter the sound. (My
> current one already eliminates 75% of the
> noise, but it could always be better)

> Is it worth it? (Optimistic)

> Also to note, whenever I turn my receiver
> on, the voltage tends to drop by .4 volts at
> least; is that normal?

[billfitzmaurice]

> I can tell the difference too. I read 0.1 to
> 0.2V differences by visual stimulation - ie:
> my eyes looking at a DMM. I can then imagine
> any difference in sound that I want

Quite right. Here's the real test. Get a blindfold and a helper. Listen to the system, blindfolded, and every time you 'hear a change in the voltage' motion to your assistant to write down the voltage reading. Also have the assistant write down when the voltage changes and you don't hear any difference. When you're done and look at the results think about why you're so desperate to throw more of your money away.

We managed to get along just fine without power conditioners for about eighty years. They only became popular 'necessities' after the cable nuts and drug companies proved that people would buy/believe anything.

[unknownuser]

Thanks for the links....but what if I want to control the voltage by the decimal? Its almost like tunning how many years a fine wine sits in its bottle in order to achieve maximum flavor. (I just said that to **** you guys off )


(Originally posted by: ÐJ JüŠT-|©E)

[mike1234]

...add or increase surge capacitance at the power drain sources too (a/c comp./circ. fan/outside fan, pool motors, etc.). There are also whole house power conditioners that mount in or near the main power box. Increasing capacitance in all your audio power supplies might help too.

> You may not be entirely crazy. We have high
> power at our house, it reads between
> 120-125Vac (or at least it did when we moved
> in and my dad tested it). This is a good
> thing as it gives us a little extra wattage
> at the outlets, but we also have dirty
> power. Upon getting our first computer, we
> had hard disk after hard disk die until we
> bought a UPS for it. Our first Tivo didn't
> last two years either. Everything important
> in our house is either on a UPS or a
> conditioner. Without power
> conditioning/upses amps in our house with
> speakers on them can sometimes have a
> "clip" noise come out of them when
> we get a spike or a dip in our power (we do
> also have air conditioning, thats a pretty
> large instantaneous drain) and we have a
> pool with 220V motors.

> Anyways, I have noticed that fluctuations in
> power will affect sound, at least
> instantaneously. I can't necessarily tell
> the difference, but right now my reciever is
> on my computer, and that is on a 1500VA ups
> with a transformer to smooth the output.

> Two things you could do are a LARGE ups
> (1500VA or larger) or a power conditioner.
> In our sunroom we have a Tripp-lite 1200W
> power conditioner, and it has kept errant
> spikes and crap noise away. The unit itself
> will make a clicking noise when there is
> that momentary surge/dip, but nothing
> through the speakers. It has also managed to
> stop a buzzing/crapping sound made by a
> cheap subwoofer we had which made this sound
> even when turned off.

> I recommend one of these power conditioning
> units as it will keep your gear safe and may
> solve most of your problem (they even
> correct for under voltae if it's not too
> severe or prolonged), But I recommend a
> larger one, like the 2000W one, because I
> upgraded my subs and realize now that I'll
> just sqeak by my HT (in my bedroom for now
> of course) on 1200W. The extra capacity can
> never hurt you either.

> Beyond a power conditioner there was the
> balanced power option that was mentinoed a
> few days ago on this forum, but I don't know
> the specifics of how exacty that works. It
> was also around 1500 bucks though. This
> tripp lite unit will run you between 100 and
> 200 bucks, and will act as the best darn
> surge suppessor in the world, and will
> protect against dips and spikes that cause
> errant noises.

> Beyond that, yeah, your reciever could be
> dead if it doesnt sound good with SUSTAINED
> and clean 110V power, seeing as it should
> work fine on 110V.

> I've got a church service to go to this
> morning, and then I'm building some speakers
> today (WOOHOO!) but I'll try to get back on
> later and give you a link to the tripp-lite
> I'm talking about. I'd say it's probably
> comparable to the Monster offerings and a
> lot less expensive (which is why I picked
> the tripp-lite myself). Monster tends to
> charge an exorbitant amount of money for
> products with raw materials that dont
> justify that cost (UNSHIELDED subwoofer
> cable for 50 bucks?? I got a TRIPLE shielded
> acoustic research for the same money).

[mike1234]

[philiparcario]

Provided Link: 2000watt variable transformer


> Thanks for the links....but what if I want
> to control the voltage by the decimal? Its
> almost like tunning how many years a fine
> wine sits in its bottle in order to achieve
> maximum flavor. (I just said that to ****
> you guys off )
Buy the tripplite voltage regulator buy the two isolators from tripplite and buy a variac. see link this will cost 210 or so. if you buy the 4 items I mention total cost is about 700. ebay has it cheaper. This will allow total isolation and voltage control. If you want the control the sinewave see ps audio items are very expensive you probably don't need them. of the 4 items I am suggesting to you start with the lc1800 and add the other pieces later.

[mike1234]

...using the 220V (input) variac(s) and running dedicated line(s) to it/them... vs. just using the 110V (input) variac(s)?

> Buy the tripplite voltage regulator buy the
> two isolators from tripplite and buy a
> variac. see link this will cost 210 or so.
> if you buy the 4 items I mention total cost
> is about 700. ebay has it cheaper. This will
> allow total isolation and voltage control.
> If you want the control the sinewave see ps
> audio items are very expensive you probably
> don't need them. of the 4 items I am
> suggesting to you start with the lc1800 and
> add the other pieces later.

[philiparcario]

> ...using the 220V (input) variac(s) and
> running dedicated line(s) to it/them... vs.
> just using the 110V (input) variac(s)?
The only advantage is if you have some 220 gear. I have a 2000watt 220 and a 2000 watt 110. sometimes audiogon has 220 gear. Jameco runs a sale on their large 220v and 110v every fall . the sale is free shipping, but they are in california and i am in nj so is a big sale, for me. I have terrible power quality where i live. so these are a must I get a lot of brown outs 105volts is common in the summer. I also have a ps audio 300 power unit . it will change the sine wave 50hz to 120hz. it helps with transfomers from europe that only like 50hz. it also helps with turntable speed. I got it on ebay as a discontinued model direct from ps audio. 500 instead of 1500. It is on sale on ebay sometimes for 300 or 400 hundred. it only handles 300watts. the tripplite gear has been more helpful.

[unknownuser]

Can input frequency effect the sound?


(Originally posted by: ÐJ JüŠT-|©E)

[unknownuser]

But can you set it to automatically correct for voltage differences to match you desired voltage? The voltage usually only changes dramatically every 3-4 hours, so its not necessary though.

Thanks for the info.

I think that the people who doubt that it makes a difference just are able to get clean power where they live...but people like me and you (Your situation seems to be much worse though) can tell a difference when a filter is added. For me its so dramatic that even my friends who get ****** off when I tell them that I spent $35 for a pair of earphones, and $750 for an amp, can tell the difference almost immediately.



(Originally posted by: ÐJ JüŠT-|©E)

[philiparcario]

> Can input frequency effect the sound?
short answer is yes. mostly due to motor speed on turntables or tape decks it is a way a having pitch control that is offered on some turntables. it can also affect pitch on cd's. I wanted the ps audio 300 power regenerator out of curiousity . I found it is helpful for my dvd and cd players and my turntable. at a good price on ebay it is worth 300 to 500 dollars if you have a need for it. phil

[philiparcario]

> But can you set it to automatically correct
> for voltage differences to match you desired
> voltage? The voltage usually only changes
> dramatically every 3-4 hours, so its not
> necessary though.

> Thanks for the info.

> I think that the people who doubt that it
> makes a difference just are able to get
> clean power where they live...but people
> like me and you (Your situation seems to be
> much worse though) can tell a difference
> when a filter is added. For me its so
> dramatic that even my friends who get ******
> off when I tell them that I spent $35 for a
> pair of earphones, and $750 for an amp, can
> tell the difference almost immediately.
I was telling you to get the tripp lite lc 1800 it will set the line level at 117 volts automatically when the voltage is high or low. then feed it into the variable transformer you set by hand and it will boost the 117 to what you want/ say 121 it is like a radio channel once you set it you can forget it. the lc1800 will fix the power drops. after the varible transformer add the tripplite is1000 transformer this will clean noise. it is three pieces. the lc1800/ the variable transformer/ and the isolation transformer/ with carefull shopping you can get the three pieces for less than 600. you will have the ability to have 1000 plus clean controlled watts. or go to ps audio and buy one of the new pieces for 1800 dollars and you can do more. phil