Aethers using TB W5-704D --IT'S HERE!!! *PIC*

[Paul Carmody]

Wooooooooooooooo!

Yeah, it's pretty exciting, at least to a nerd like me. I've learned quite a bit about crossover design since the first version of these, and I'm very proud of how this has turned out.

Quick breakdown:
1. The original "boxless" sound is very much intact. If this design intrigued you before, but couldn't try it because of availability of drivers, this is for you.
2. These drivers integrate VERY nicely to the crossover topology I've been using. If you look at the driver responses on the FR graph, EVERYTHING rolls off with a 2LR slope! It's enough to make Dennis Murphy happy (well, I hope, anyway). There is also no more negative interference between the mids and tweeter, because the phase now lines up very nicely between all the drivers. What does this mean for the listener? It means that that the sound stays very consistent, and the listening axis is very large. You also gain a bit more detail because there is no "suckout" of certain frequencies. End of story: it's a hell of a lot of sound for under $300.

Here's the revised crossover and FR for these drivers.
<A HREF="http://undefinition.googlepages.com/AetherTBV1.2.gif">http://undefinition.googlepages.com/AetherTBV1.2.gif</A>

Notice also that the tweeter cap has changed a bit to give a nice sweet null when the polarity is flipped. Honestly, I don't know if my ears actually cared whether the cap was 5.1 uF or 6.8 uF, or anything in-between. But at least it looks good on paper.
<A HREF="http://undefinition.googlepages.com/....2-revnull.gif">http://undefinition.googlepages.com/....2-revnull.gif</A>

If you were one of many who jumped on that DOTD for the Tang Band W5-704D, this is a really fun way to put them to use. Even if you missed your chance, the drivers are still very reasonably priced, and you can finally be in on the dipole action. Yes, the project is officially done, and I can rest finally knowing that the parts to accomplish it are very easy to obtain.

So enjoy!
Sincerely,
Paul Carmody

P.S.: One last note, I have the greatest respect for Linkwitz and Kreskovsky, and I am only beginning to understand all the amazing ideas they work with. I know I overlooked a lot of details they might find important. However, there is a definite reason to have open-back speakers, and I hope that the Aethers stand as a good "starter" demonstration of what such a sound is capable of.

[Max_Andrews]

Really cool project, I wish I could sit down and here them! I like the sound of OB projects a lot, this is a pretty low cost project that seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck, nice job!

The only thing I'm curious about is the woofer's high pass. You get a nice slope with the 100uf cap and the natural OB rolloff, but I'm wondering won't the rear wave also cancel part of the SD215's frontal energy as well? I don't know OB stuff so I might be totally ignorant.

[jonpike]

> Wooooooooooooooo!

> Yeah, it's pretty exciting, at least to a
> nerd like me. I've learned quite a bit about
> crossover design since the first version of
> these, and I'm very proud of how this has
> turned out.

Very cool, Paul...

A placement question, how far do you have those from the back wall? Sides of room? And how big is the room altogether?

I don't really know the aspects of a "good" or "bad" room for Dipoles... trying to figure that out for my own place...

[Andy_G]

> Very cool, Paul...

> A placement question, how far do you have
> those from the back wall? Sides of room? And
> how big is the room altogether?

> I don't really know the aspects of a
> "good" or "bad" room for
> Dipoles... trying to figure that out for my
> own place...

I don't think the "behind' distance is really an issue when only using the mids in a OB config. With bass, yep, it probably is.!!
If you are rear venting the woofer in Paul's design, then if you are far enough out from the wall for the mids. If your ears tell you that you are too close, just add a layer of poly wadding behind the drivers. The baffle on Blackwood is only 2ft from the wall behind. No problemo !!

[Wolf]

Very nice, buddy!
Wolf

[revelator]

So..I understand that this is version 3 using the Tangbands instead of the Vifa or the Peerless. Does the TB sounds better? Better phase integration with the Tang band as you mentioned Did soundstage got any better?

BTW...Very well done

> Wooooooooooooooo!

> Yeah, it's pretty exciting, at least to a
> nerd like me. I've learned quite a bit about
> crossover design since the first version of
> these, and I'm very proud of how this has
> turned out.

> Quick breakdown:
> 1. The original "boxless" sound is
> very much intact. If this design intrigued
> you before, but couldn't try it because of
> availability of drivers, this is for you.
> 2. These drivers integrate VERY nicely to
> the crossover topology I've been using. If
> you look at the driver responses on the FR
> graph, EVERYTHING rolls off with a 2LR
> slope! It's enough to make Dennis Murphy
> happy (well, I hope, anyway). There is also
> no more negative interference between the
> mids and tweeter, because the phase now
> lines up very nicely between all the
> drivers. What does this mean for the
> listener? It means that that the sound stays
> very consistent, and the listening axis is
> very large. You also gain a bit more detail
> because there is no "suckout" of
> certain frequencies. End of story: it's a
> hell of a lot of sound for under $300.

> Here's the revised crossover and FR for
> these drivers.
>
> <A HREF="http://undefinition.googlepages.com/AetherTBV1.2.gif">http://undefinition.googlepages.com/AetherTBV1.2.gif</A>
> Notice also that the tweeter cap has
> changed a bit to give a nice sweet null when
> the polarity is flipped. Honestly, I don't
> know if my ears actually cared whether the
> cap was 5.1 uF or 6.8 uF, or anything
> in-between. But at least it looks good on
> paper.
>
> <A HREF="http://undefinition.googlepages.com/....2-revnull.gif">http://undefinition.googlepages.com/....2-revnull.gif</A>
> If you were one of many who jumped on that
> DOTD for the Tang Band W5-704D, this is a
> really fun way to put them to use. Even if
> you missed your chance, the drivers are
> still very reasonably priced, and you can
> finally be in on the dipole action. Yes, the
> project is officially done, and I can rest
> finally knowing that the parts to accomplish
> it are very easy to obtain.

> So enjoy!
> Sincerely,
> Paul Carmody

> P.S.: One last note, I have the greatest
> respect for Linkwitz and Kreskovsky, and I
> am only beginning to understand all the
> amazing ideas they work with. I know I
> overlooked a lot of details they might find
> important. However, there is a definite
> reason to have open-back speakers, and I
> hope that the Aethers stand as a good
> "starter" demonstration of what
> such a sound is capable of.

[Mark65]

I really like the look of those speakers, and would absolutely LOVE to hear them!!!

I think we need a DIY Nationwide, so we can all get together at once. No wait, it should be Worldwide, so our friends from down under and Europe can get involved also! Hmmm, how 'bout we all meet in...oh, I don't know...Belize?

I'm just kidding, of course, but it would be cool, and anyway, nice job Paul!!!

Mark

[Wolf]

Got crossovers yet? I still think we should pitch in to fly-in Andy G. to DIY somewhere around here. He probably can't fly his speakers, but it would still be very cool!
Later,
Wolf

[Max_Andrews]

We could all load up our speakers and take a boat out to an oil rig or fuel station in the middle of the south pacific, or meet in tahiti

[Wolf]

> We could all load up our speakers and take a
> boat out to an oil rig or fuel station in
> the middle of the south pacific, or meet in
> tahiti

Nah- then we's have no bass reinforcement from boundaries, and full-6dB *should* be incorporated. Very spacious, but measurements would be difficult with the crashing water, and blowing wind. Viable, not practical, and I know you're kidding....
Later,
Wolf

[jasonb]

Paul,

How close in frame diameter and thickeness are the TB's to the Vifa's used in the first version?

Jason

> Wooooooooooooooo!

> Yeah, it's pretty exciting, at least to a
> nerd like me. I've learned quite a bit about
> crossover design since the first version of
> these, and I'm very proud of how this has
> turned out.

> Quick breakdown:
> 1. The original "boxless" sound is
> very much intact. If this design intrigued
> you before, but couldn't try it because of
> availability of drivers, this is for you.
> 2. These drivers integrate VERY nicely to
> the crossover topology I've been using. If
> you look at the driver responses on the FR
> graph, EVERYTHING rolls off with a 2LR
> slope! It's enough to make Dennis Murphy
> happy (well, I hope, anyway). There is also
> no more negative interference between the
> mids and tweeter, because the phase now
> lines up very nicely between all the
> drivers. What does this mean for the
> listener? It means that that the sound stays
> very consistent, and the listening axis is
> very large. You also gain a bit more detail
> because there is no "suckout" of
> certain frequencies. End of story: it's a
> hell of a lot of sound for under $300.

> Here's the revised crossover and FR for
> these drivers.
>
> <A HREF="http://undefinition.googlepages.com/AetherTBV1.2.gif">http://undefinition.googlepages.com/AetherTBV1.2.gif</A>
> Notice also that the tweeter cap has
> changed a bit to give a nice sweet null when
> the polarity is flipped. Honestly, I don't
> know if my ears actually cared whether the
> cap was 5.1 uF or 6.8 uF, or anything
> in-between. But at least it looks good on
> paper.
>
> <A HREF="http://undefinition.googlepages.com/....2-revnull.gif">http://undefinition.googlepages.com/....2-revnull.gif</A>
> If you were one of many who jumped on that
> DOTD for the Tang Band W5-704D, this is a
> really fun way to put them to use. Even if
> you missed your chance, the drivers are
> still very reasonably priced, and you can
> finally be in on the dipole action. Yes, the
> project is officially done, and I can rest
> finally knowing that the parts to accomplish
> it are very easy to obtain.

> So enjoy!
> Sincerely,
> Paul Carmody

> P.S.: One last note, I have the greatest
> respect for Linkwitz and Kreskovsky, and I
> am only beginning to understand all the
> amazing ideas they work with. I know I
> overlooked a lot of details they might find
> important. However, there is a definite
> reason to have open-back speakers, and I
> hope that the Aethers stand as a good
> "starter" demonstration of what
> such a sound is capable of.

[Mark65]

> Got crossovers yet? I still think we should
> pitch in to fly-in Andy G. to DIY somewhere
> around here. He probably can't fly his
> speakers, but it would still be very cool!
> Later,
> Wolf

I've actually started to look more closely at the cabs, and since I'm table saw challenged, the angled baffles are going out the window (sorry, Andy!). I'm still trying to decide on the material for the baffle, I need something relatively budget, but still attractive. I was originally thinking cypress, but it's not as nice in person as it was online. I looked at ash, alder and basswood today, along with some exotics like ibe, black limba, leopardwood, etc., but I need to take the wife along to decide so I have automatic SAF built in. I'm considering the xo's done for now, tweaking to come after the cabs are at least fully designed.

Mark

[dlneubec]

> Very cool, Paul...

> A placement question, how far do you have
> those from the back wall? Sides of room? And
> how big is the room altogether?

> I don't really know the aspects of a
> "good" or "bad" room for
> Dipoles... trying to figure that out for my
> own place...

Not Paul, but John K. recommends at least 3', preferably 4' from the front and side walls for his NaO's, IIRC.

Dan

[Paul Carmody]

> How close in frame diameter and thickeness
> are the TB's to the Vifa's used in the first
> version?

The TB are larger drivers. As a result, they have to be set about 1/4" farther away from the tweeter than the Vifas. I believe the TB W5-704D frames are 6 1/8" diameter, and about 1/4" thick. I actually re-routed a set of baffles which already had driver cutouts in them to mount the Tang Bands. I basically did what you see here in this pic I lifted from Troels Gravesen's site.

Well, I did it a bit more ghetto, but it worked just fine. Attached a piece of scrap to the back of the hole, found the proper driver center from the sides of the baffle, drilled, and basically just routed the recess and hole as if there was a full baffle there.