Polk Audio 11t questions, replacement??

[rallyshark]

Hello everyone, and happy holidays! I recently purchased a used set of polk 11t towers. I was very lucky in the fact that the only problems are mostly cosmetic and all drivers are in surprisingly good shape. They definitely have a unique sound that I'm still getting used to, but I'm looking for a little more. Not that I blast the stereo all the time, but when I do it would be nice to not worry about if the next song is gonna have too much bass to put them over the limit. If you look at any of my few posts, you probably reallize that I'm a bit of a newb/dummy about these things. I was wondering is there a good way to "upgrade" the drivers without loosing the sound, or is it time for me to finally go the DIY route and build a proven design? The reason I keep buying used speakers is simply because I'm being cheap. Like I said before, these speakers have a different sound, but I kind of like it. I like the way the bass sounds with the passive radiator set up, but those poor 6.5" drivers run out of steam on bass heavy music, and the tweeters are a little on the sharp side for me, but all in all, the actual sound is not bad to me. Do I just need to sell these speakers and start over so that I know I'm getting what I want? Would it be hard to build one with a passive radiator set up? Wouldn't a passive radiator set up be a little forgiving in the enclosure design? I've learned alot from the few posts/responses that I've had, so any info and advice is really appreciated. Are there any proven designs out there that use the passive radiator enclosures? If I do go this route, what would be a good asking price for the 11ts. All the info I find seems to be a bit dated. I await all of your expert guidance. If it helps, my previous speakers were infinity reference 2000.4/2000.6 and I liked their sound as well, but they really fell on their face at higher volumes. Thanks again guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[denton]

You seem pleased (basically) with the Polks except for bass capability. You should consider adding a powered sub with a good built-in crossover. Send the deep bass to the sub and the rest to the Polks.

[rallyshark]

I already have a sub. I want to use the polks for music only. I have a good surround sound with 10" sub that I use for movies hooked to a separate receiver. The sub is very boomy and great for the theater, but not for music.

[johnastockman]

Hello everyone, and happy holidays! I recently purchased a used set of polk 11t towers. I was very lucky in the fact that the only problems are mostly cosmetic and all drivers are in surprisingly good shape. They definitely have a unique sound that I'm still getting used to, but I'm looking for a little more. Not that I blast the stereo all the time, but when I do it would be nice to not worry about if the next song is gonna have too much bass to put them over the limit. If you look at any of my few posts, you probably reallize that I'm a bit of a newb/dummy about these things. I was wondering is there a good way to "upgrade" the drivers without loosing the sound, or is it time for me to finally go the DIY route and build a proven design? The reason I keep buying used speakers is simply because I'm being cheap. Like I said before, these speakers have a different sound, but I kind of like it. I like the way the bass sounds with the passive radiator set up, but those poor 6.5" drivers run out of steam on bass heavy music, and the tweeters are a little on the sharp side for me, but all in all, the actual sound is not bad to me. Do I just need to sell these speakers and start over so that I know I'm getting what I want? Would it be hard to build one with a passive radiator set up? Wouldn't a passive radiator set up be a little forgiving in the enclosure design? I've learned alot from the few posts/responses that I've had, so any info and advice is really appreciated. Are there any proven designs out there that use the passive radiator enclosures? If I do go this route, what would be a good asking price for the 11ts. All the info I find seems to be a bit dated. I await all of your expert guidance. If it helps, my previous speakers were infinity reference 2000.4/2000.6 and I liked their sound as well, but they really fell on their face at higher volumes. Thanks again guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The compromises with Polks, Infinity, and any other popular brands are just the cost of doing business. The drivers are marginal, cabinet construction isn't very good and the crossover is, well, not adequate. I worked in an audio store for a long time and I've seen 'em all. There's no good way to upgrade those speakers. Different drivers will have very different parameters and won't work with whatever they call a XO that's in there now. Cabinet bracing and damping can help, but with those boxes, sometimes you're better off with a better cabinet from the start. If all you've heard are the retail brands, you're in for a real eye-opening experience if you could compare to some good DIY speakers. I've had those Polks and the Infinitys in my house comparing back and forth with some DIY designs. There really is no comparison, as the even the fans of certain brands are amazed at the differences. The imaging, smoothness and many other adjectives about SQ are glaringly obvious when switching between the various DIY designs and their retail "brothers". You don't need a passive radiator to get excellent SQ and bass response. Take a look at Pete Schumachers "Schumakubins". There are so many designs that might fit your needs, it's difficult to recommend one. Do you have a budget limit, size restriction, or a spouse approval factor? Your current electronics line up would help in recommending any particular designs.

John A.

[rallyshark]

Thanks John. I do have a certain "approval factor", but not too bad. It can't be anything taller than 50" as it would then elipse the height of the tv. Nothing more than 10" or so wide or 14" or so deep. If I can keep things within those parameters the significant other probably won't object. I've never attempted to build a crossover myself, although I'm good with math and can solder I'm just not sure if I'm capable of that or not, but I'm willing to give anything a shot. Obviously, I would like to keep the budget low as possible. I'm getting fed up with my attempts at buying used equipment and it just not quite meeting my expectations. The 11ts are my best speakers so far. I know those are crap to alot of people, but I'm kinda new to the home audio thing. I can build anything with wood. The only thing that has stopped me so far is money and every time I get really serious about starting from scratch I end up overwhelmed with options. Like I said before though, I really like the way the bass sounds with the 11ts, but it does give up at volume and the tweeters are a little over powering. I guess I could go in any direction from here. I have two receivers. I use the Sony for the surround sound side of things, and an old school Technics for the music. I hope that gives you a better idea of what I'm looking for, and thanks again for your help

[Operandi]

Aside from rebuilding the crossover with better components and possibly re-enforcing the cabinet (Polk is usually pretty good here) there isn't really anything you can do with the existing speakers. Personally I wouldn't bother with either option.

I think your best bet is to sell the Polks and start over. RJB's JDB3 looks like it would address your issues and hopefully fits in your budget.

[Face]

Polk makes replacement tweeters which are MUCH smoother than the originals. As for the crossover, upgrading the capacitors to Dayton and resistors to Mills will make a even bigger difference. The stock capacitors sometimes leak and drift in value after 10-20 years.

As for a lack of bass, it could be a few things. Check to make sure all the drivers are secure. Tighten all the screws, but don't go overboard because they can strip in the cabinet.

LMK if you have anymore questions, I've upgraded a few pairs of Monitors, SDA's, and even LSi's.

Mike

[johnastockman]

Thanks John. I do have a certain "approval factor", but not too bad. It can't be anything taller than 50" as it would then elipse the height of the tv. Nothing more than 10" or so wide or 14" or so deep. If I can keep things within those parameters the significant other probably won't object. I've never attempted to build a crossover myself, although I'm good with math and can solder I'm just not sure if I'm capable of that or not, but I'm willing to give anything a shot. Obviously, I would like to keep the budget low as possible. I'm getting fed up with my attempts at buying used equipment and it just not quite meeting my expectations. The 11ts are my best speakers so far. I know those are crap to alot of people, but I'm kinda new to the home audio thing. I can build anything with wood. The only thing that has stopped me so far is money and every time I get really serious about starting from scratch I end up overwhelmed with options. Like I said before though, I really like the way the bass sounds with the 11ts, but it does give up at volume and the tweeters are a little over powering. I guess I could go in any direction from here. I have two receivers. I use the Sony for the surround sound side of things, and an old school Technics for the music. I hope that gives you a better idea of what I'm looking for, and thanks again for your help

Do you want some floor-standing speakers that can do full range or some smaller stand-mounted speakers with a sub? For the tower style speakers, the Schumakubins I mentioned are very nice and budget-friendly. I don't have the link for them, but Pete Schumacher has the info. Here's some other links that can get you started:

www.lonesaguaro.com

www.rjbaudio.com

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/index.html

http://users.d-web.com/dbrown/speakers/speakers.htm

http://www.zaphaudio.com/

http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/

Most of the projects have been built by guys here, so there's help available if you have any questions. If you can read a schematic, the XO isn't that hard. When I first started, getting from the schematic/diagram to a working XO was the most difficult for me. Again, lots of help if you run into a snag.

John A.

[rallyshark]

Yeah, I was looking for the full range no sub variety of ideas. Thanks alot Mike and John! I will look over the links and probably have more questions

[rallyshark]

Okay, so I looked at alot of the projects in the links you guys posted. I still can't find one that I REALLY like. I know, I'm to picky I'll also note that the things I'm looking for may not be as important as I think.
Mike,
You said you've dealt with alot of the polk speakers, and there are some better tweeters available for the 11ts? How much are they and where can I get them? Smoother would definitely be better I can live with the 11ts if the tweeters aren't too expensive. Well, for now atleast. When I get some extra funds I do want to attempt a "project". Like I said before, I really like the way the bass sounds in these towers. The problem just comes when the volume gets high and the drivers just run out of xmax I guess. I like the way the low end is detailed and tight, but gets loud when the music requires it. I've also noticed the 11ts go very low. I hear and feel notes in music that I never heard before, and whatever project I attempt I would like to have a frequency response as low. I know that sealed enclosures tend to have tighter more defined bass, and vented enclosures are more efficient with alot more tuning possibilities, but with more boominess and peaks in many cases. Is the passive radiator set up somewhere in between? How do you even determine what size enclosure to build when using a PR setup or is there a formula for that? Secondly, how do you determine the tuning on the PR or what PR to use for that matter? And yes, I like them because it looks really cool to Granted, my opinions are limited by my knowledge. That being said, are all the things I like not even good on the polk 11t? I mean how would you guys rate them as far as speakers go? Is possible that my opinions and likes are simply due to the fact that I've never owned a decent speaker? From what I can tell a great speaker to me would be the the lows and low mid of the 11t with the mid and highs of the infinity reference 2000.4 and 2000.6s that I had before the polks. That's all the personal experience I have with "good" speakers. If I'm being silly, PLEASE tell me! I await all of your expert guidance! Thanks again guys!

[arlis_1957@yahoo.com]

just some thoughts from a fellow newbie. you could consider making a sealed box for you sub to tighten it up for music. relieving your towers of very low duties could reinforce your mids and midlows,an eq would help tame the tweeters. a little 9 band for 40bucks
i think its important that you be somwhat happy with sq so you wont feel rushed with your tower project.
i have not listened to them, but the tritrix seem to be a possible choice.
dont know where you live but attending one of the diy could give you some ideas. one coming up near ft wayne in.

later arlis

[djg]

Rallyshark, I googled Polk 11t and got several links to the Polk forum, including one discussing a tweeter upgrade. Also saw some pictures. Very nice looking towers. I am sure if you check out the Polk forum you will get some help.

Two six inch speakers with two 8 inch passive radiators. How loud do you listen to make these run out of steam? How many watts in your old Technics? Could your receiver be cr*pping out instead of the speakers? What kind of music do you listen to?

I was going to agree with the last post about making a sub, but these seem to at least look very bass capable.

[Face]

Two six inch speakers with two 8 inch passive radiators. How loud do you listen to make these run out of steam? How many watts in your old Technics? Could your receiver be cr*pping out instead of the speakers? What kind of music do you listen to?

I agree, it probably is his receiver running out of steam.

You said you've dealt with alot of the polk speakers, and there are some better tweeters available for the 11ts? How much are they and where can I get them?

Join the Polk forum and then call Polk direct, they charge $48 shipped Fed Ex per tweeter.

How do you even determine what size enclosure to build when using a PR setup or is there a formula for that? Secondly, how do you determine the tuning on the PR or what PR to use for that matter?

I believe a PR is similar to a port, but with a faster roll off.

That being said, are all the things I like not even good on the polk 11t? I mean how would you guys rate them as far as speakers go?

The 11t is still pretty respectable. IMO, with new style tweeters and a upgraded crossover, it should sound on par better than a lot of Polk's current offerings(except for the LSi's). But if you like them, that's all that should matter.

There are some tweaks you can do to make them sound better. As mentioned above, Polk's replacement tweeter is much smoother sounding. Also, replacing the crossover capacitors should also make a substantial difference. Like most mass produced speakers, the original caps aren't the best of quality; plus after 15-20 years, the values start to drift.

Mike

[rallyshark]

That's great! I will se what I can do about joining the polk forum, and ordering those tweeters. I will also check into the crossover components. As for the reciever, well I could be wrong, but I don't think it's crapping out. I can hardly turn it up more than 1/4 volume. It just has alot of power. I believe about 120w rms @ 8ohm, and thats in surround mode. I'm not sure about stereo or at 4 or 6 ohms. I know it is 4ohm stable, but I think the 11ts are 6ohm or maybe 8, I can't remember. I listen to ALL different kinds of music on them. Everything from jazz and accoustic music to some good 'ol metal or pop etc. Some of the newer "music" I listen to does have substantial bass in it. Maybe I didn't describe things well. The speakers don't have a lack of bass. They just aren't very happy when bass heavy music is played at a higher volume. I would like to know a little more on the passive radiator design side of things to. I guess I need to do some searching on that one. Once again, thanks tolorating my questions and for the great advice

[djg]

When you said Technics, I was thinking vintage stereo. Your receiver sounds capable. If it has a sub out connection, I would investigate improving your towers, then seeing how they sound. Then a sub, if still not satisfied. Some modern music has much more bass than was in vogue when your speakers were made. A sub would take some load off your towers in the really low HZ.

The 11ts are 6 ohm, per a link on google.

[johnastockman]

Okay, so I looked at alot of the projects in the links you guys posted. I still can't find one that I REALLY like. I know, I'm to picky I'll also note that the things I'm looking for may not be as important as I think.
Mike,
You said you've dealt with alot of the polk speakers, and there are some better tweeters available for the 11ts? How much are they and where can I get them? Smoother would definitely be better I can live with the 11ts if the tweeters aren't too expensive. Well, for now atleast. When I get some extra funds I do want to attempt a "project". Like I said before, I really like the way the bass sounds in these towers. The problem just comes when the volume gets high and the drivers just run out of xmax I guess. I like the way the low end is detailed and tight, but gets loud when the music requires it. I've also noticed the 11ts go very low. I hear and feel notes in music that I never heard before, and whatever project I attempt I would like to have a frequency response as low. I know that sealed enclosures tend to have tighter more defined bass, and vented enclosures are more efficient with alot more tuning possibilities, but with more boominess and peaks in many cases. Is the passive radiator set up somewhere in between? How do you even determine what size enclosure to build when using a PR setup or is there a formula for that? Secondly, how do you determine the tuning on the PR or what PR to use for that matter? And yes, I like them because it looks really cool to Granted, my opinions are limited by my knowledge. That being said, are all the things I like not even good on the polk 11t? I mean how would you guys rate them as far as speakers go? Is possible that my opinions and likes are simply due to the fact that I've never owned a decent speaker? From what I can tell a great speaker to me would be the the lows and low mid of the 11t with the mid and highs of the infinity reference 2000.4 and 2000.6s that I had before the polks. That's all the personal experience I have with "good" speakers. If I'm being silly, PLEASE tell me! I await all of your expert guidance! Thanks again guys!

At the risk of repeating myself, I have a lot of experience with retail speakers, both mass-market and high-end brands, having worked for 20 years at an audio store in the Seattle area. The speakers most are familiar with, like the popular well-known brands you mentioned, are mediocre at best. Compromises with cabinet construction, bottom-line-oriented XO's that are not adequate is the norm. A company just cannot make any money when producing thousands...marginal performance goes hand in hand with cost-of-manufacture.

If you can make your own cabinets and have the tools, you'll be miles ahead AFA sound quality goes with, say, one of Zaph's designs. Your cabinet will be much better built and John's XO is much more developed and refined than anything you could buy at the average audio emporium.

We did comparisons and measurements at our store, so I'm familiar with those two brands and their performance. Plus, I still have folks wanting to show me how their retail brands stack up against some of the DIY projects I've built, from budget to more expensive. At least twice a month, I have a little comparison session with the various brand names. Now, it's probably not very scientific, but no one leaves here thinking their name brands are superior. Problem is, when you get the speakers home, at best all you have to compare with are another brand. So comparing with a well-designed DIY project isn't an option for most people.

There's more info on my background and experience in my blog if you have some extra time...it will explain a lot about where my opinions come from and why I feel the way I do about the ongoing question of how does DIY stack up against name brands. Experimenting can be fun and a great learning experience...most have started with trying to improve their retail speakers. I'd pick one of the Zaph designs you mentioned over any mass-market speaker. The gains in SQ you can achieve modifying a Polk or Infinity are very small compared to what you can get by building any of the fine DIY designs that use the higher quality drivers, like Seas, Dayton RS, Scan Speak, Usher, etc. We sold the various versions of the Reference Standard, but the measurements and comparisons didn't justify the price tag. Heck, some of the designs I have here based on budget drivers (like the Dayton classic series and the MCM drivers) shame the more expensive Polks, Infinity, CV and all those other popular names.

You've seen that the hard part is picking a project that meets your SQ needs, looks, and budget considerations...there's so many to choose from. Remember that looks and price sell speakers to the uninformed. You wouldn't believe what I've seen on the inside of, for example, a $16,000 pair of speakers. Price gives the illusion of quality and the mind/ear connection can be fooled into thinking they sound terrific once they're in the living room. I'm an expert in my particular field, but I'm not yet designing XO's, so that's the advice I can offer from an ex-retailer. Go with a DIY design...when it comes to speakers, the old saying about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear is even more true. I wasted a lot of time & money dinking around with commercial brands and "improvements" and trying to get pre-made/textbook XO's to work before I found the generous and knowledgeable folks here.

Now when someone brings me a store-bought speaker with the request to improve them, we just sit down for a side-by-side with a DIY project. DIY wins every time. Granted, there are some well-designed and well-made commercial speakers that do have a performance/SQ that's equal to their price, but you just can't find them very easily anymore. You won't find 'em at any big box store or Magnolia. IMHO, it would be "silly" to try and make those speakers better when there are so many outstanding DIY designs out there. You can get much better tweeters (with a proper XO, of course) in a DIY design for less than the $48 a piece they want for a different Polk tweeter.

John A.