What's the best bass you've ever heard?

[deLuxhifi]

The most impressive bass I've heard came from a friend's dual Velodyne 15" servo subs. No need for 'rump shakers' with these. This friend who is in charge of engineering at a large metro-city TV station, has always had nice high-end audio 'toys'.

The bass I'd LIKE to hear would be from this installation. What looks like a doorway is actually part a masonry "horn" under the floor.



The "build thread" can be found here... http://www.royaldevice.com/customita3.htm

...as a stone mason [brick and block too, though I prefer the stone end of things] I must say that...that is right up my alley.



I'm wondering if they were better off using a rebar reinforced masonry construction. Seismic construction methodolgies. Those Italians really haven't learned their lessons about un-reinforced brick construction, but it will probably survive...maybe. At least the rest of the room looks like reinforced concrete, so the room will survive. The subwoofer horn passages though...eh it will live.

[dubbreak]

Two 1200Gtis in 1.75 cu.ft. vented enclosures (Fb~28 Hz) in-car and driven by 1kW did come close though (interestingly enough, the track in question was "Tom Sawyer" off of Rush's "Exit.. Stage Left" CD.

My experience with JBL gtis left a good impression too. One of my friends had 2 15"s in a Chevy blazer (properly sound deadend, fed from a much too expensive eclipse deck, don't rmember the amp, just that it was big). Those subs were clear clean and loud. I've heard loud before, but not like that. Unfortunately the rest of the sound stage couldn't keep up with the subs.

[wg_ski]

Quite simply I don't think about such things when I'm at a concert. Sit back and enjoy is the order of the day. Not everything in life need be referenced, refuted, folded, spindled or mutilated. Just let the music take you along for the ride.

shawn

But some venues and systems sound better than others, and that makes the ride more enjoyable. Or less. It's a good thing we already knew all the lyrics when me and the wife went to see Robert Earl Keen at BillyBob's last month. Muddiest bottom end I've heard in a long time - to the point where the vocals were almost inaudible - and certainly unintelligible.

[dwigle]

A 100' horn. My father worked at a defense manufacturing plant in the late 70's. He was an acoustic engineer in charge of the testing labs. To vibration test missile components like motor initiators and thrust nozzles they brought in a horn.

It came on two 53' trailers and was bolted together in the middle. The driver looked to be about 8' in diameter. The horn flare was about 12' square. The flare was bolted to a concrete box about 12' square. This cube had a door or series of doors to allow test parts to be placed inside. Wall thickness was probably 4-5 feet.

The amp/signal generator set up came on another 48' trailer and the generators to supply power came on yet another trailer.

I'm told the set up would produce 10-15k hz. I don't think the db scale was relevant.

It could turn a stainless steel billet into dust in a matter of minutes. I think Titanium lasted longer.

[shawn_a]

But some venues and systems sound better than others, and that makes the ride more enjoyable. Or less. It's a good thing we already knew all the lyrics when me and the wife went to see Robert Earl Keen at BillyBob's last month. Muddiest bottom end I've heard in a long time - to the point where the vocals were almost inaudible - and certainly unintelligible.

Yep, I do agree. But what it all comes down to for me is that I'm at a concert to be entertained. I spend most of my days wallowing in paying attention to detail and minutiae so I try hard to turn off that switch and just enjoy. I ran into not being able to do that not so long ago but I'm re-learning how to simply sit back and watch the show.

shawn

[johnastockman]

To continue with the artillery motif, every year during the Fourth of July the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra has their concert of patriotic music (Sousa out the ying-yang) at Conner Prairie. Big open-air venue that overlooks a beautiful pasture behind and below the orchestra shell. Well, when the darkness has started to really creep in they get ready for the fireworks which is accompanied by the orchestra belting out the 1812 Overture. Complete with cannon. I try to get as close to the big ole boomstick the guys in green jammies bring out for the occasion. Absolutely magical and it is some of the most vicious slam-in-the-chest I've ever felt. Overall it's a great show to go to. I've gone to many different shows for the Symphony On The Prairie series and it's always a good time.

shawn

I wish I could relate my experience as being from a well-designed subwoofer, but the most/best bass I've ever heard was when I was at a friends motorcycle shop in Tacoma, WA and there was that huge explosion at the Atlas Foundry. It was on youtube, some guy caught the whole thing. We were just a couple miles by air from it. You could feel the air compress, if that's a proper term.

Now that RS 12" sub w/HPSA 500 watt amp I made for my nephew has squashed many retail poseurs, but I know it's not THE best. For music, I heard a Focal 15" at CES that really kicked me in the b-a-l-l-s, literally. I can't remember what model it was, but it was the bottom of a ported 3-way that was using an Audiom 7" for a mid and the 120 tweeter. Best musical bass at the whole show.

John A.

[christianb]

I did car audio installations at Circuit City while in college and even though I heard literally hundreds of systems I'm still partial to my dual Alpine Type-R 10" setup I had with a 500 watt class D MTX mono amp. The bass was so tight with minimal distortion...just amazing. They had an honest 14+ mm xmax as well.

Now, the best bass I've ever heard is my quad RSS390HF IB sub in my theater room. Just stupid how loud it can get with minimal distortion. I watched Rambo (new one) a few nights ago and the machine guns felt like they were shooting me in my back. I think I might have to watch that again this weekend when the wife leaves.

[dblotii]

The best bass i have heard in a home tower speaker is the VMPS Tower 2's, now discontinued, though VMPS still makes some similar towers. 2 12" woofers + 12" passive radiator. Truly low-distortion bass from an efficient speaker with pretty flat frequecncy response.

Cllosest DIy project I ahve seen might be the MCL's.

Dave

[scott_m]

There's been a bit of discussion on this before, but I think there's more to say. So not getting caught up in just naming specific woofers, please talk about how the woofers were used.

Questions:
-What is the best bass from a speaker you have ever heard
-Was it a separate subwoofer, IB, or built into a multi-way passive speaker?
-What was the alignment? Sealed? Ported? Horn-loaded? PR? Something else?
-Why did you enjoy the sound? Deep extension? Accuracy? Speed?

I'll go first!
The best bass I have ever heard was from an unknown cerwin vega horn-loaded subwoofer in a dance club. I enjoyed it firstly because I was mildly intoxicated at the time, but further because it hit deep and hard without sounding sterile, and in general did a very good job of being musical. Add to that the ability to sound good at insane volume levels, it left me fairly impressed, and mostly likely slightly nauseous.

This may be stretching the rules a little bit, but the best bass I have encountered was in the now demolished Northpark I Auditorium, General Cinema Theater in Dallas, TX. It was one of the first three theaters in the country along with Mann's Chinese theater in LA and another on the east coast to receive THX certification. It was continually one of the first theaters in the country to get successive new treatments of Dolby and THX certification as well. The "1" auditorium was the premiere movie venue in Dallas, even after the advent of the modern multi-plex theater.

I remember going to see the first Batman flick with Nicholson as the joker when Dolby Digital 5.1 was released. The Batmobile vibrated the doors to the auditorium and you could feel the bass in your chest when standing in the lobby waiting to get into the theater. My understanding was that the theater installed two stacks of 8 horn loaded subs - 16 total (maybe Klipsch or JBL concert subs) behind the screen for the .1 channel in addition to its already impressive array of speakers it had for the original THX certification. (Bill Fitzmaraunce would be proud!)

This said, I'm not sure it was the drivers or even the amplification that made the bass so impressive. There were other theaters in Dallas installing similar systems at the time. I worked a the United Artists Theater off Park Lane near Northpark Mall and we had a very similar system in 4 of our auditoriums, but they sounded nothing like the Northpark 1 auditorium. I think it was the configuration and size of the auditorium more than anything else.

It was a simple long slanted floor layout that terminated at a 78' wide screen (third largest in the country at the time) and must of sat over 1000 people. There were at least 18 effects speakers on each side of the theater. Our largest audtiorim at the UA theater had 9 or ten. I think the reason why the deep bass was so pronounced was simply that the room allowed for the long wavelengths to fully develop and to some degree, reverberate, off the concrete floor. The walls consisted of this blue perferated and corrogated metal treatment and the ceiling was just your standard ceiling tiles. Also to its benefit, there were only two auditoriums at this theater, each standing separately and flanking a single lobby. THX certification requries that there be minimal or no sound leakage from one auditorium to the next. Only one auditorium had the THX certification.

When I go to a theater or for that matter, when I listen to a home theater, I compare its bass to my memory of Northpark 1. What I fail to hear in almost all of these later applications is the liveliness and expansiveness of the bass that Northpark 1 had. I don't know any other way of how to describe it, but it just sounded alive and big, which suited the summer spectaculars that were everybody's favorites to seen in the theater. Jurassic Park was absolutely awesome in the theater.

[russnester]

[QUOTE=Max_Andrews;1559318]There's been a bit of discussion on this before, but I think there's more to say. So not getting caught up in just naming specific woofers, please talk about how the woofers were used.

Questions:
-What is the best bass from a speaker you have ever heard
-Was it a separate subwoofer, IB, or built into a multi-way passive speaker?
-What was the alignment? Sealed? Ported? Horn-loaded? PR? Something else?
-Why did you enjoy the sound? Deep extension? Accuracy? Speed?

QUOTE]


Interesting question, but for me, easily answered. A friend's home in West Sacramento, c1977-79. Clearly not sane, he had installed a 24 inch Hartley sub into a solidly built-in 60+ cuft sealed cabinet (used his hall closet plus 4 feet of attic space). Powered by a 1KW Quintessence basic amp with a custom built electronic crossover (LP at about 40 Hz). Learned that I can (or could) hear clear bass tones to just below 20Hz. Powerful, accurate, smooth, played down to the center of the earth, and would move sufficient air to make clothing flutter if you sat too close. Matter of fact, my wife and I were wakened late one night (we lived across the street), hearing bass lines from "Journey to the Center of the Earth" classical soundtrack through our pillows. Never heard anything like it since.

--- russnester

[16hz lover]

Car stereo: Stereo Integrity Mag series subwoofers, bass so tight, they just disappear

Most bass in a vehicle: Sticking my head in Alma Gates Bronco and having them burp it at 174db (fingers were sticking in my ears for protection)

Home stereo: Klipsch Jubilee horn loaded bass bins, redefines what tight bass is about....man what dynamics, don't want to own any non-horn bass speakers ever again.

[JagarMiester]

I am searching for a subwoofer based on high audio fidelity. My question is this: are horns any better for the sake of fidelity over sealed enclosures?

I was seriously looking at the TRW-17 Rotary. But upon reading deeper into it, I realized I don’t have access to the attic or any other place for the rear enclosure. If it weren’t for my house already being built I suppose I could have worked it in. Funny, in my search I came across this: http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm. <Much to late for that, but it did get me to start looking at horns. I am thinking of pulling the trigger on a new high end sealed sub, but before I do, I would like to get some opinions on horns, with respect to fidelity.

[Max_Andrews]

I just built my first horn sub and am very impressed with it - definitely much higher power handling and better dynamics than most sealed or vented subs, with respect to woofer size (the one I built was horn loaded 6.5" subwoofer, it sounds like a vented 12").

That said, I haven't heard all that many sealed subs in my day, so in terms of absolute fidelity between the two I can't really offer a solid opinion. Horn loaded subs seem to "hit" quite a bit harder though, which I personally prefer, as it adds a more tactile feel to music that the few sealed subs I have heard seem to lack.

THe only way to really decide if horns are for you is to go ahead and build one. It's not too hard and many of them use low cost drivers. The one I just made cost $85 for the driver and the enclosure materials, and for that price I could not be happier.

Have you considered infinite baffle subs? I hear a few of the RSS390HF installed IB sounds killer.

[djg]

+1. My dual 8"Table Tuba is quite impressive.

[cpcarter]

I've been a Pro Musician for many years and I think the "best Bass" is rarely reproduced by a speaker. What is REAL Bass?

The attack and deep fundamental of a well tuned Kick Drum with a Walnut or Birch shell. Think of a speaker that could move as much air as a drum 22" Dia x 18" Deep. The xmax would be over an inch! That is my benchmark for absolute power and transient attack.

The complex harmonics that make up the timbre of a bowed Double Bass. When you stand next to it you feel it resonate your entire body.

As for lowest frequency extension The pipe organ at St Michaels church in Harlem used to mezmerize me. Any Pipe Organ hitting the lowest pedals is a physical experience you must experience.

The 1812 Overture performed by the United States Military Academy Band from West Point with 3 105mm Howitzers. Moving ,frightening, power.

An F14 going verticle with full afterburners...Holy ****

A top Fuel Dragster at idle when staging feeling each cylinder pulse in your chest

The closest I've gotten to these visceral experiences, acoustic "live" benchmarks with speakers:
1.A car system with JLAudio ported 12" with a 1000W Amp.
2.Next would be live stage PA systems with 18" 1000W EV drivers More power but not really much lower than 40 Hz
3. Next would be most of my DIY Subs tweaked and massaged to be as accurate as possible in each room with each system .

I don't think it makes sense to go for highest possible SPL or deepest possible frequency. The challenge for me is to try and even get close to REAL Bass.
CC

[sowndluvr]

Non-musical/military grade bass:
210mm paladin/howitzer artillery cannon firing: Sonic Power that only God himself should be allowed to wield. Makes you feel weak and mortal.
My wife and I lived about 3 miles from the impact zone @ Fort Sill, 3 times in a year the city had to come out and fix water lines that burst from the sheer force these things put out. I've been near when these go off it causes the dust on the ground to jump about 3' in the air.

Jets: Once in the field I just happened to look up and saw 3 navy jets fly overhead about 100' off the ground @ some ungodly speed. I saw that and thought "hmmm I didn't even hear those things....." Then it immediately dawned on me and I stuck my fingers in my ears and looked around at the other guys who didn't notice them to see their reactions - priceless!!! It's one thing when you know it's coming, it's frightening when that noise comes out of nowhere on a peaceful - sunny - silent day.

The sound of a huey helicopter chopping the air as it turns overhead. My favorite second to the A-10 as mentioned below. Talk about feeling it in your chest, what an enjoyable thump these things make. I was assigned to an attack helicopter unit for a while and I am terrified of heights but LOVE flying figure that one out.

An artillery simulator going off 5 feet away - ears ringing for days.

Claymore mine. 150 yards away. If you haven't heard or seen this it can't be done justice in a movie at least no movie i've ever seen. Makes you feel sorry for anybody hit with one. Same with a grenade - when they go off as far away as you can throw it they have a certain power that is NEVER reproduced in a movie. These things are way more deadly for a larger radius than movies give credit. In movies they never give these things justice....These things are very very powerful. It's a bass that hurts to hear - not at all an enjoyable sound.

A-10 warthog firing its cannon my personal favorite. It's deep it's loud it's ferocious it's a welcome sound to a US infantryman in trouble and terror to the enemy.

[kenmcculloch]

University Classic folded horn with 15" leftover Speakerlab woofers in a 20 x 15 living room in a rented house. You could feel it in your chest and smooth as silk. Matter of fact I have some K-33 15" woofers laying around and might just build a set - but where would I put them!!!!!!!!

[DS-21]

Questions:
-What is the best bass from a speaker you have ever heard
-Was it a separate subwoofer, IB, or built into a multi-way passive speaker?
-What was the alignment? Sealed? Ported? Horn-loaded? PR? Something else?
-Why did you enjoy the sound? Deep extension? Accuracy? Speed?

I've I may be so immodest, the best bass I've yet heard from an audio system is my current living room system.

It uses three separate subwoofers, though there are technically 8 total sources playing into the bass. However, most program material only engages five of them. That is to say, the LCR mains (12" Dual Concentric) and surrounds (8" Dual Concentric) are all run full-range. The mains go down to about 40Hz, the surrounds maybe an octave higher. The three subwoofers are set up as closely to the precepts of Dr. Geddes that I could in this room with these cabinets. The main sub is in a front corner, and the two "broadband" subs are, respectively, against a wall, and about a meter give or take from a different wall near the listening position.

All speakers (mains, surrounds, and subs) are in closed boxes.

Why do I enjoy this setup? Oh, my. Let's start with the fact that it doesn't sound like a separate bass system, but part of a coherent musical whole. One can't tell the subs are playing, but turn them off and the size/ of the soundstage just collapses.) I credit that to the placement, integration with the mains (Audyssey MultEQ XT), and the high quality of the parts used (low-inductance XBL^2 and underhung NRT motors) Because there's lots of volume displacement (18", 30+mm xmax main sub; 12", ~15mm xmax "broadband" subs) and power (3kW total, 2Kw/500W/500W), neither extension nor dynamic compression are issues. On dance music, electronica, and rock, it hits. On orchestral stuff, it has enough resolution to do justice to the most finely-grained performance.

Also, it sounds consistently good all around the room, rather than chaining the listeners to a tiny "sweet spot." After listening to smooth, even bass all around the room, the massive room-caused flaws in "full range floorstanders" is simply unlistenable. Not through any fault of the speakers, but because the room simply destroys them. Sorry, but two "full range" speakers just ain't high-fidelity in the bass.