New Receiver Time

[frost_51]

My 9 year old yamaha is outdated and one of the outputs is toasted. Coincidentally I am receiving a refund on my Income taxes.

So i am looking for a new Receiver:

- $600-900
- Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™
- would like it to have pre-outs as well

I am starting to get into this DIY addiction and plan on building lots of speakers. Is there anything else important I should take into consideration with this in mind?

What would you suggest?

Is it possible to repair the old Yamaha?

I have been looking and notice that HK's power ratings are always far lower than the competition. Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks,
Ty

[brianpowers27]

Power ratings should be stated as 20hz-20khz (full range) all channels driven simultaeously. THe power you want to know is not dynamic power(peak), but RMS power.

I own a HK avr247 ($250 refurb Aug 08). I can assure you that the 70 watts (stereo) / 55(7 channel)is very loud, even without a sub. It would be nice to have a little more. Someday I will use the preouts and drive outboard amps. I am sure that for what I paid these aren't top of top of the line preouts but I bet they are good enough. I will take my extra money and spend it on speakers.

Many manufacturers hide their true power rating (including some Yamaha models) by stating power as 100 watts 1 channel driven @ 1khz.

I have been told the limiting factor on most of the amps is the power supply.

Does the old Yammie have A/B sides? I would keep it around for special use (bedroom, speaker testing, etc...). Fixing would probably cost over $100, if someone does it for you.

[savage25xtreme]

If your looking into driving DIY speakers make sure you get a 4 ohm stable receiver and/or preouts.

[frost_51]

So is refurb the way to go then?

[ropey man]

I kind of did the same thing, and i am still eyeing a new reciever. haven't picked one up yet due to budget constraints, but here is a link to my thread that i threw out asking for help. hope this gives you a little help or guidance...

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=210059

[DougP]

My 9 year old yamaha is outdated and one of the outputs is toasted. Coincidentally I am receiving a refund on my Income taxes.

So i am looking for a new Receiver:

- $600-900
- Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™
- would like it to have pre-outs as well

I am starting to get into this DIY addiction and plan on building lots of speakers. Is there anything else important I should take into consideration with this in mind?

What would you suggest?

Is it possible to repair the old Yamaha?

I have been looking and notice that HK's power ratings are always far lower than the competition. Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks,
Ty

I have a refurb HK and am very pleased with it. I know that HK rates their receivers with all channels running not just one like most other makers. Hk does have pre-outs and lots of other goodies. Check out the link for a deal.
Doug

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...REC&market=HOM

[Jason]

The Yamaha RX-V663 has been a very popular model. The new models add more features, but they are rumored to have some compromises in the amp section (so for example to get a comparable amp section as the 663, you would need to step up to the 765, not the 665). In any event, that should fall in your price range.

Onkyo is releasing new receivers that will include the new Dolby Pro Logic IIz, which adds additional front speakers. It's still a 7.1 setup (in Onkyo's implementations), but instead of the rear surround speakers, they are moved to the front of the room above your mains. This is supposed to expand the sound stage and do a nice job with ambience effects. For a lot of rooms this speaker placement will be more practical and more effective than using rear surrounds. Interestingly the Yamaha receivers have something called "presence" speakers that work on a similar concept, although I believe they allow running a 9.1 setup (hey, you said you wanted to build more speakers!)

Beyond Yamaha and Onkyo, you have the normal suspects of Denon and HK, both of which are also well regarded.

One thing I'd strongly suggest considering... You might be better off shooting for a lower priced receiver with preamp outputs and trying to pick up a used Emotiva LPA-1 amp. If you can pick up a decent receiver in the ~$500 range, you should be able to get an LPA-1 for under $500, and stay pretty close to your desired price point. That or consider an amp as a future upgrade. This is a particularly important consideration if your speakers are at all difficult to run (i.e. low impedence) and you listen anywhere near "reference" levels.

[savage25xtreme]

I checked the HK website that is linked above. I didn't see any receivers that were 4 ohm stable? That's surprising

[brianpowers27]

I checked the HK website that is linked above. I didn't see any receivers that were 4 ohm stable? That's surprising

I imagine that the receiver could drive some 4 ohm loads. The important factor is at what volume. It is also important to understand the actual impedance minimum of the speaker and where it occurs in the frequency band.

If 4 ohm stable is a requirement you may just need to run preouts from the receiver to an outboard amp.

[savage25xtreme]

looks like from 80 to 300ish these are well below 8ohms BAMTMs I am building. I think Im going to go with a Pioneer Elite and an Emotiva...

[frost_51]

The Yamaha RX-V663 has been a very popular model. The new models add more features, but they are rumored to have some compromises in the amp section (so for example to get a comparable amp section as the 663, you would need to step up to the 765, not the 665). In any event, that should fall in your price range.

Onkyo is releasing new receivers that will include the new Dolby Pro Logic IIz, which adds additional front speakers. It's still a 7.1 setup (in Onkyo's implementations), but instead of the rear surround speakers, they are moved to the front of the room above your mains. This is supposed to expand the sound stage and do a nice job with ambience effects. For a lot of rooms this speaker placement will be more practical and more effective than using rear surrounds. Interestingly the Yamaha receivers have something called "presence" speakers that work on a similar concept, although I believe they allow running a 9.1 setup (hey, you said you wanted to build more speakers!)

Beyond Yamaha and Onkyo, you have the normal suspects of Denon and HK, both of which are also well regarded.

One thing I'd strongly suggest considering... You might be better off shooting for a lower priced receiver with preamp outputs and trying to pick up a used Emotiva LPA-1 amp. If you can pick up a decent receiver in the ~$500 range, you should be able to get an LPA-1 for under $500, and stay pretty close to your desired price point. That or consider an amp as a future upgrade. This is a particularly important consideration if your speakers are at all difficult to run (i.e. low impedence) and you listen anywhere near "reference" levels.

I like your idea Jason. Is it possible to buy a 7.1 "processor" that is only a pre-amp that would have comparable features to a high end HK?

[Jason]

I like your idea Jason. Is it possible to buy a 7.1 "processor" that is only a pre-amp that would have comparable features to a high end HK?

There are quite a few "pre-amps" (often referred to as Pre-pros or SSPs -surround sound processors) available, although that market tends to be pretty high end, and often moves at a slower pace than the receiver market. The few exceptions to that are Onkyo and Denon, which keep pace pretty well. Just recently Onkyo had a really great deal on their ("refurbished") PR-SC885 "ridiculously" priced for around $600 (I say that because originally I think they were around $2000). In any event, right now there probably aren't any SSPs for under $1000 that support the HD audio. Sometime this summer Emotiva's UMC-1 will be coming out, and it's going to be $699. As far as I know that's going to be the cheapest HD SSP on the market.

[frost_51]

Thanks again for the info Jason. Looks like there is a UPA Seven in my future.

I'm going to check my Yamaha at lunch and see if it has preouts ( I don't even know). If it does will the channel that is not working properly work through the pre-out? I guess the answer to this is probably situational depending on the exact problem.

Another question. If i were to purchase a crossover unit could I use two of the channels of the UPA for subwoofers and save on plate amps?

[johnzimmerman]

My 9 year old yamaha is outdated and one of the outputs is toasted. Coincidentally I am receiving a refund on my Income taxes.

So i am looking for a new Receiver:

- $600-900
- Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™
- would like it to have pre-outs as well

I am starting to get into this DIY addiction and plan on building lots of speakers. Is there anything else important I should take into consideration with this in mind?

What would you suggest?

Is it possible to repair the old Yamaha?

I have been looking and notice that HK's power ratings are always far lower than the competition. Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks,
Ty

I just got (XMAS) an ONKYO TX-SR806 and I think it's great and appears to meet all your criteria.

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

JohnZ

[donparsons]

I have the Emotiva LPA-7 which had lower power on 2 channels that I use to drive the speakers on the patio as a second zone. I have been very pleased with it and the MMC-1 combo I bought a little over a year ago.

It was a big step up from my outlaw 5.1 system.

[philiparcario]

Thanks again for the info Jason. Looks like there is a UPA Seven in my future.

I'm going to check my Yamaha at lunch and see if it has preouts ( I don't even know). If it does will the channel that is not working properly work through the pre-out? I guess the answer to this is probably situational depending on the exact problem.

Another question. If i were to purchase a crossover unit could I use two of the channels of the UPA for subwoofers and save on plate amps?

no subs pull a ton of juice. here is another good discount site for you www.ac4l.com

this may be good enough for you. it has pre in and pre out. this means it can be used as a preamp only or a amp/preamp or a mixture of both. good price.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...ceiver-/1.html

[Jason]

Technically you could power a couple subs from the unused channels on the UPA-7 (you shouldn't even need a xover - just use what's in the receiver). It's a pretty robust amp. However, as Phil noted, subs pull a lot of juice. If you have relatively "meager" subs, you could probably get away with it, but if you are using "serious" drivers, I'd recommend better amplification (preferably a pro-sound amp over a plate amp).

[savage25xtreme]

I just got (XMAS) an ONKYO TX-SR806 and I think it's great and appears to meet all your criteria.

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

JohnZ

That looks like an awesome receiver for 550 bucks (reman) can I ask what speakers your driving? how do you like the SQ?

[frost_51]

Well i have decided to go with a refurbished HK receiver (not sure which one yet) and a UPA 7. Thanks a lot for all of your helpfull advice.

[savage25xtreme]

make sure its an AVR-254 or up to have pre-outs