OT - Windows 7

[johngalt47]

On a lark, I downloaded and installed Windows 7 RC. I actually removed the hard drives I had been using and installed 7 on a totally different drive by itself.

What I didn't expect was that it installed my wireless internet modem and software which I am now using.

If anyone has any questions I'll try to answer them. I'll probably go back to Windows XP unless I can install all my 32 bit programs in Windows 7.

[Ryan_M]

I've been running Win7 since ~January and I like it. Back then I had a few small issues trying to get things to play nice but there weren't any Win7 drivers so I had to use Vista x64 drivers. I see a lot of companies are releasing drivers and updates now to support Win7.

Other than the fiddle-farting around with the initial setup it's been running perfectly.

[Mike E]

windows 7 is a stripped down vista with some other tweaks to it.. you do know there are two versions of win7, 32bit and 64bit. hope you dont try to use the Dayton Woofer tester on win7-64bit cause it wont work. there is no performance increase from using a 64bit os, its only used if you need to access more then 3.5gig of ram.

[Andy_G]

I'm glad someone bought up this topic.

Over the next week or so I hope to update to a new computer, probably either a Phenom II 940BE or 955BE or Intel Q9550, decision to make. !!
I need to run 8Gb of ram because of the simulation stuff I am working with so I will need a 64bit system.

My thoughts at the moment are to run Windows 7 RC for the time being, assuming a 64 bit version is available. My current computer will move to the other room, continuing to run 32bit XP, but will get a good sound card put into it. I do have an old SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum card from a previous even older computer, but a new one is probably required.

Comments?

[Mike E]

I'm glad someone bought up this topic.

Over the next week or so I hope to update to a new computer, probably either a Phenom II 940BE or 955BE or Intel Q9550, decision to make. !!
I need to run 8Gb of ram because of the simulation stuff I am working with so I will need a 64bit system.

My thoughts at the moment are to run Windows 7 RC for the time being, assuming a 64 bit version is available. My current computer will move to the other room, continuing to run 32bit XP, but will get a good sound card put into it. I do have an old SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum card from a previous even older computer, but a new one is probably required.

Comments?

depends on the simulation software your running.. PII based x4's are not matching core 2 quad cpus clock for clock. the big difference will be L2 cache, if the simulation responds to more L2 then get the C2Q. SB audigy cards are not the best for Music SQ. Asus has some Xonar cards that are really nice. there are some other ones out there that cost alot and i mean alot. the Music SQ from my M-audio revo 7.1 is good imo and i doubt im going to hear a difference on my cheap cans vs the Asus Xonar DX i picked up. windows 7 RC comes in both flavors like i mentioned. see this page
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/Win.../download.aspx
down at the bottom you choose which version you want.

what simulation software are you going to be using? how much for this new pc do you have to spend?

[Andy_G]

The software is our own research stuff, written in Intel Fortran running under Visual Studio. (There is legacy code which is in older versions of Fortran, and is too time consuming and complicated to re-write, and it does just what we want it to do, very quickly, plus my supervisor and I both know Fortran reasonably well, and neither of us want to learn C+ etc, so Fortran is a good choice :-).

My old machine (Athlon +3800) is only able to run 32 bit, and I have filled up the 3Gb or so memory on some simulations, so since I have the funds (courtesy of the Government Stimulus package), I thought it was time to update ;-) This old machine will become a music and download machine in the spare room, hence the sound card.

Its a bit hard to do the price thing because I am down under, but I have, say, $AU1000 + a bit extra if required. (don't need to buy a HDD as I'll take the 500Gb one out of this machine, get another one later if required, or maybe get a 100Gb HDD for the OS, and use the 500Gb as data storage)
As you can see, I'm still in the "decision" stage!
To give you an idea of prices down here, here is one of the on-line stores, not quite the cheapest, but close to.
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/?umart=1

As you can see, I am unsure which chip to actually choose. Thing with the Phenom ii 940 is that I can overclock it if I decide to, which may be useful, and its slightly cheaper.
I'm definitely looking at one of the 45nm quad cores at around the level mentioned (i7's are out of the budget range), 8Gb of ram (DDR2-1066), case, psu, dvd drives, motherboard, os, and because the Uni machines are all Windows (we use Excel a lot too, macros, Visual basic etc ), it really needs to be also running Windows. I don't want compatability issues.

[bobbarkto]

Download it now while it's available and burn the image to dvd. You'll be able to install and use it until mid 2010 according to MS.

I'm running the 64bit version here for the last few weeks. You'll need 64 to utilize that much ram (i'm at 8gb here).

Software compatibility can be an issue. Anything that runs on Vista64 should work.

Newer hardware seems to be mostly a non-issue. Anything that was XP compatible will probably be supported in the box. I've found that Vista64 drivers usually work if there is no specific Win7 version available. Check the vendor forums. Most have a lot of talk about Win7 now.

I'd install it first thing on your new rig. If your software won't work at least you won't be out much time and effort if you find you have to switch to something else.

I'm glad someone bought up this topic.

Over the next week or so I hope to update to a new computer, probably either a Phenom II 940BE or 955BE or Intel Q9550, decision to make. !!
I need to run 8Gb of ram because of the simulation stuff I am working with so I will need a 64bit system.

My thoughts at the moment are to run Windows 7 RC for the time being, assuming a 64 bit version is available. My current computer will move to the other room, continuing to run 32bit XP, but will get a good sound card put into it. I do have an old SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum card from a previous even older computer, but a new one is probably required.

Comments?

[jonpike]

It's a good sign that it's called by so many: "Vista done right"

Other than that opinion, good to hear that many are actually having better results with it...

I and my wife are seriously behind in PC hardware (a former close watched hobby of mine) and need to get up to date. We've been wanting to stay with XP on general principles... but it's late to get something delivered that way...

We'll see what we end up with. Or, if I need to keep a XP machine for SE and other older, picky, earlier software...

[Mike E]

well andy, DDR2-1066 is going to be a waste. save some coin and get some DDr2-800 cas4 ram. for ocing you can oc the C2Q as well so either is going to be ok. since you know the program, have you guys tried it on different cpus to see if it responds to more L2. generally some programs can do more work or work faster with more L2 per the same clock speed.

for sound cards choose from this list, a few have SNR ratings of 120DB.
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=117845
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=115258
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=109081
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=119242
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=120405
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=117147

well for the intel side of things
cpu
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=114382
motherboard
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=117339
ram(actually worked out just a few bucks more for DDR2-1066 ram).
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=120451
video card
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=120101

for amd, you got it for the cpu and i suggest this motherboard.
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=119233
has onboard video since you didnt say any gaming. plus the ATI 3300 onboard will hardware decode H264 and VC1 which is what some BD disk's are encoded in.

no matter which way you go, please get a good power supply. the only way i can stress this is like, do you run crap amps on speakers that cost $100+. a bad power supply can can up in flames, taking many parts with it. do it right the first time, please get a good power supply.
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=113365
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=113795

[Andy_G]

Mike,
Your choices are pretty close to what I have written down, only diff being that I need at least 6 USB slots on the back (lotsa peripherals, y'know ;-)
Certainly I will look at decent PSU's.

We have a "Computer fair" this coming sunday, where the on-line dealers set up in the local basketball stadium for the day. Having a good idea of what I'm after, and the on-line prices, maybe I can pickup a bargain or two. , Darned if I'll be awake though, as I have gigs on Friday evening , Saturday arvo, AND evening. Methinks I'm getting too old for that sort of schedule !!!

Unfortunately we only have a couple of computers we run on at Uni, mine, which is a Dell Intel core 2 laptop (2.4GHz per core iirc) and the boss's computer, which is older. No AMD's to compare with except the Athlon 3800 I'm using now, which is, of course, .... slower. On either machine, the cpu and memory usage get pretty close to 100% on even the simplest simulation.

At Uni, if I need to, I can apparently access the multi-computer set-up, with 20 or so linked CPU's available, but I haven't learnt that trick yet.

[Andy_G]

I'd install it first thing on your new rig. If your software won't work at least you won't be out much time and effort if you find you have to switch to something else.

I'll download and burn it at Uni tomorrow.

I have no intention of installing any new System stuff on the old computer. It is running XP sp2, and when I updated to SP3 a couple of "other" programs ceased working, which was pita, so I had to do a restore. It runs well, just not for Uni research related stuff.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Mike,
Your choices are pretty close to what I have written down, only diff being that I need at least 6 USB slots on the back (lotsa peripherals, y'know ;-)
Certainly I will look at decent PSU's.

We have a "Computer fair" this coming sunday, where the on-line dealers set up in the local basketball stadium for the day. Having a good idea of what I'm after, and the on-line prices, maybe I can pickup a bargain or two. , Darned if I'll be awake though, as I have gigs on Friday evening , Saturday arvo, AND evening. Methinks I'm getting too old for that sort of schedule !!!

Unfortunately we only have a couple of computers we run on at Uni, mine, which is a Dell Intel core 2 laptop (2.4GHz per core iirc) and the boss's computer, which is older. No AMD's to compare with except the Athlon 3800 I'm using now, which is, of course, .... slower. On either machine, the cpu and memory usage get pretty close to 100% on even the simplest simulation.

At Uni, if I need to, I can apparently access the multi-computer set-up, with 20 or so linked CPU's available, but I haven't learnt that trick yet.

Andy,

Powered USB hubs are cheap, and make accessing a USB slot much easier than relying on what's built into the box.

[cuggie]

Just my 2 cents worth: I downloaded Windows 7RC when it was posted. Then I had to learn to do the IOS file on to a DVD. You probably already know how that works. If I did it - then it can not be too difficult. I loved it as soon as I had it installed [which went with out a hitch]. I use 2 different hard drives, one for Vista and another for Windows 7. W7 [32] seems to be a lot faster than my Vista, but of course I have more "stuff" on Vista. Anyway we get to use it for a year for free. Pl;us it is just fun to learn a new thing, I think. There that is all I know about the subject.

Cuggie

[Ryan_M]

You mention you can overclock the phenom if you decide to... you can overclock the C2Q too. I have a Q6600 @ 3.87GHz that runs nicely.

I haven't had any AMD experience since my AthlonXP's but AFAIK the amd's now are cheaper and more efficient than intels, whereas the intels are more powerful. That said in my htpc I have a E3110 (XEON equiv. of a E8400) and it has a passive HS and I have no problems.

+1 on those gigabyte mobo's. They're cheap enough and very reliable. My last few mobo's have been ASUS's and they will be my last. I try asus boards from time to time and they don't agree with me.

[johngalt47]

I don't know for sure all the programs that will or will not work with a 64 bit OS but I do know for sure that PCB123 will NOT work with Win 7 64 bit.

[luisp526]

How is Windows 7?
I normally use XP Pro, but mainly for gaming and all things audio.
Aside from that.....

VERY happy Linux user here!!

[daryl]

It's cool that this came up.

These last few months I have been assembling a new computer and have been trying Unbuntu Linux as well as Windows 7.

I have tried Ubuntu 8 and 9 in 32 bit and 64 bit.

Then I tried Windows 7068 32 bit and after that Windows 7100 32 and 64 bit and just last night I installed Windows 7127 64 bit.

New Computer....

Coolermaster Elite uATX case
Foxconn G45M-S uATX motherboard
Intel E8400 cpu (O.C. to 3.75Ghz, 416Mhz x 9)
8GB (4 x 2GB, 800Mhz, 4-4-4-12) G. Skill PI ram (O.C. to 833Mhz, 416Mhz x 2)
OCZ Mod-Xtreme 500W 80plus modular power supply
32GB solid state Supertalent Ultradrive
LG Super Multi Blue drive (reads Blu-Ray and reads/writes everything else including Lightscribe)
Zerotherm BTF90 PWM cpu heatsink
Hanns-G 28" 1920 x 1200 monitor

Windows 7 has numerous drivers built in, and it can even find my newtwork connected HP printer and install it's own driver for it.

Windows 7 can fully utilize my GMA X4500HD integrated graphics and play Blu-Ray discs with the help of Power DVD 9 where Linux and Windows XP just crash the computer.

The new Windows 7127 build is supposed to have solved some incompatibility issues that existed in earlier builds.

I think 64 bit is going to be mainstream now because so many of the new computers currently for sale come with 64 bit operating systems (I'm thinking like half).

Computers with 3GB of ram are 32 bit OS but those with 4GB and 8GB are 64 bit and I'm seeing them everywhere.

[Andy_G]

32GB solid state Supertalent Ultradrive

hmm.. this is a component I have also been looking at with interest.

do you use it for the system? is it as quick as it seems it might be ?

is 32Gb enough ? the price of a 64Gb is more than the budget can handle.

so.. more comments on this particular item, please Daryl.

TIA AG

[daryl]

Hi Andy,

Yes the Ultradrive is fast!

You can reboot in seconds.

Windows 7 64 bit requires considerably more space on the HD than the 32 bit version.

With a 32GB HD and 8GB of ram you will have a little more than 8GB free on the HD after installing Windows 7 64 bit.

This is mainly due to the fact that Windows 7 will set the page file to 8GB because you have 8GB of ram.

With 8GB ram you shouldn't need a page file and you may select the 'no page file' option which will give you a little more than 16GB free on the HD.

16GB is enough room for a lot of software and a few personal files but is not enough room for your media files so you will want a secondary drive for media files which I know you have.

Just tonite I bought a Western Digital 1TB My Book Essential Edition external USB drive for $119 at Walmart for media files since I have filled my wifes drive up.

I had been using my wifes computer as a media server through our home network.

The Super Talent 'Ultradrive' and OCZ 'Vertex' models are much better than most other SSD's in that they use a special controller chip which yeilds higher transfer speeds than most other drives can achieve.

They also feature 64MB cache's which most other drives do not have which is a very important feature as SSD's tend to get tripped up when multiple read/write commands are issued causing them to operate much, much slower than their read/write speed rating would suggest they are capable and the 64MB cache helps to aleviate this.

The hardware for the OCZ Vertex and the Supertalent Ultradrive is essentially the same but the firmware for the Vertex is better as a result the Vertex performs a little better.

If you are going to spend the money for an SSD I recomend you choose between the Ultradrive or Vertex and ignore the rest including lesser models from the same manufacturers which have much lower performance but are close in price.

[Andy_G]

Hi Andy,

Yes the Ultradrive is fast!

You can reboot in seconds.

Windows 7 64 bit requires considerably more space on the HD than the 32 bit version.

With a 32GB HD and 8GB of ram you will have a little more than 8GB free on the HD after installing Windows 7 64 bit.

This is mainly due to the fact that Windows 7 will set the page file to 8GB because you have 8GB of ram.

With 8GB ram you shouldn't need a page file and you may select the 'no page file' option which will give you a little more than 16GB free on the HD.

16GB is enough room for a lot of software and a few personal files but is not enough room for your media files so you will want a secondary drive for media files which I know you have.

Just tonite I bought a Western Digital 1TB My Book external USB drive for $119 at Walmart for media files since I have filled my wifes drive up.

I had been using my wifes computer as a media server through our home network.

The Super Talent 'Ultradrive' and OCZ 'Vertex' models are much better than most other SSD's in that they use a special controller chip which yeilds higher transfer speeds than most other drives can achieve.

They also feature 64MB cache's which most other drives do not have which is a very important feature as SSD's tend to get tripped up when multiple read/write commands are issued causing them to operate much, much slower than their read/write speed rating would suggest they are capable and the 64MB cache helps to aleviate this.

The hardware for the OCZ Vertex and the Supertalent Ultradrive is essentially the same but the firmware for the Vertex is better as a result the Vertex performs a little better.

If you are going to spend the money for an SSD I recomend you choose between the Ultradrive or Vertex and ignore the rest including lesser models from the same manufacturers which have much lower performance but are close in price.

Yep, a friend of mine pointed me to a 3rd party article about the UltraDrive. seems that other SSD drives, except it and the Vertex, have latency issues (iirc) basically what you are saying I think.

I have a 500Gb hdd in this machine as a 3rd drive, so will use that in the new machine as main storage, means I can spend more on other bits now. I was considering getting either a 160Gb drive for the system or one of those SSD's. Gunna be an expensive Sunday either way