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  1. #1

    Default JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Well, Obviously, these are not in any way close to the final product, but I had to hear them.

    I am running these full range with no crossover. The frame is simply 2x4's

    My wife thinks there tooooooo tall

    They sound amazing. Huge full sound. Tons of volume. The top end is very good. I don't know what comb filtering sounds like, but acoustic guitar is absolutely stunning, and womens voices seem fine. I can hear the sharp consonant sounds perfectly well.

    Even open baffle, the bass on these is pretty good. With a little receiver EQ help, the bass extends down to 79-80 hz. Of course, that's just a warble tone and my ears for reference.

    Hopefully I'll have my friend's Tritrix set over for some comparison

    $70 worth of drivers, 4 - 8' 2x4's, 2 hours of wiring, 5-7 hours of listening. DIY grins - priceless.

    James

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    council bluffs iowa
    Posts
    7,239

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    holy cow!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sioux Falls
    Posts
    11,798

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    I am not sure, but I think comb filtering happens when you place your ear at one level and start moving up and down - if you hear the nigh frequencies dropping out and coming back as you move up and down is, I think what comb filtering sounds like.

    It is still a matter of debate if it matters or not. I am not an expert, but I have read the often cited white paper on line arrays but I read an opposing POV from a man named Roger Russell who has an impeccable resume so if you like it how they sound, don't let the technicalities get in the way!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    524

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by jimlg View Post
    Well, Obviously, these are not in any way close to the final product, but I had to hear them.

    I am running these full range with no crossover. The frame is simply 2x4's

    My wife thinks there tooooooo tall

    They sound amazing. Huge full sound. Tons of volume. The top end is very good. I don't know what comb filtering sounds like, but acoustic guitar is absolutely stunning, and womens voices seem fine. I can hear the sharp consonant sounds perfectly well.

    Even open baffle, the bass on these is pretty good. With a little receiver EQ help, the bass extends down to 79-80 hz. Of course, that's just a warble tone and my ears for reference.

    Hopefully I'll have my friend's Tritrix set over for some comparison

    $70 worth of drivers, 4 - 8' 2x4's, 2 hours of wiring, 5-7 hours of listening. DIY grins - priceless.

    James

    .

    James,
    I've been following builds on other forums using these drivers. I'm wanting to build a Line Array as well. I'm glad to here your impressions on these. There's a couple of build threads on Bill Fitzmaurices forum. http://billfitzmaurice.net/phpBB3/vi...php?f=5&t=8664 Bill suggest mounting these vertical, 3" on top of 3" for better vertical dispersion. I'm not sure why one can't mount them horizontal also. Keep the pics coming, I want to here more about your build.

    Thanks
    Dan

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Injiana
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Great Job!
    I've got a plan on Line arrays using board like you did but with the unfinished Oak,Birch boards they have at Menards or Lowes.

  6. #6

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Are you going to seal it? port it? or keep it open? If you seal/port it how do you plan on sealing the small gaps between the bottom of each driver and the top of the the next driver? - I see that you have simply mounted them in between 2 planks of wood?

    And I wonder why mounting them vertically would give better dispersion/extension or whatever mentioned on the other thread, since I thought the important thing here is center to center spacing?

    And one very important thing I just noticed, when they claim that mounting vertically is beneficial they are referring to bill's SLA/TLAH build, which includes a TWEETER LINE. So am I correct to believe that going XO-less and a full range single line like the one here I'd want them mounted horizontally?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    PacNW, USA
    Posts
    1,056

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by danklugherz View Post
    James,
    I've been following builds on other forums using these drivers. I'm wanting to build a Line Array as well. I'm glad to here your impressions on these. There's a couple of build threads on Bill Fitzmaurices forum. http://billfitzmaurice.net/phpBB3/vi...php?f=5&t=8664 Bill suggest mounting these vertical, 3" on top of 3" for better vertical dispersion. I'm not sure why one can't mount them horizontal also. Keep the pics coming, I want to here more about your build.

    Thanks
    Dan
    I believe the reason for mounting the long dimension vertically would be the shape affecting the dispersion of the higher frequencies, creating a droop starting lower in the FR with the long side horizontal. Think of the horizontal dispersion of the high freq output of a 3" cone vs. a 1.5" cone. Given the identical output quality, which driver would you select to reproduce that range?

    Very impressive, James. That's quite the amount of wiring. How many drivers are you using per array and how are they configured?
    - John

    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
    www.BuildTheDream.org

  8. #8

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    These are really pretty rough in craftsmanship. I am in the process of finishing a few other projects including finishing my outdoor shop, so I threw these together as simple as possible just to hear them.

    I wanted to experiment with open baffle a little and after listening to one driver raw, I thought it would be ok. I have a sub below them, so deep bass is not really needed. They just sound good, but I will probably build a sealed or ported cabinet for them just to see what it sound like.

    I have 22 drivers(Most that would fit in a 7' cabinet) wired in a 4-4-4-4-6 config which yields about 7ohms. I probably will try a few others arrangements just to see what difference it makes.

    As far as driver orientation, I had not read the BFM posts before I threw them together, so I may try that.

    My original plan was to use the JVC 1x4 tweeter crossed at around 3500hz.
    But, with as good as the highs are, I don't know if the tweeters will be needed.

    Right now, I'm just enjoy listening to them, and rapidly flipping through all my favorite tracks and just enjoying the big full music.

    James

  9. #9

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Just ordered 20 of the 3x5, planning on 9 per side with 2 spare, just going to smack them together like you have, but mounting the vertically, open baffle/sealed for testing. If they work out well i plan to make bigger ones, and contemplating if I need a tweeter line using these:

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=269-788

    but then I'll have to XO, and I dont know how to design one

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    258

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Thats the way to do it.

    Full speed ahead, man the torpedo.

    Sometimes you got to get around the numbers.




    Yeah c-t-c closer the better.

    Laying them up vertical you will notice a loss in the high end.

    Plus have fewer drivers.

    Loose sensitivity.





    Those are the 3x5 JVC 8 ohm right???


    I suggest a different wiring concept.

    Go no tapper.

    You have 22 drivers per side?

    Take out one driver per side, then wire 3 groups of 7 drivers in parallel.

    Now you got 3 groups of 1.14 ohms, wire these in series for a load of 3.42 ohms.

    Most modern amplifiers can handle 4 ohm loads fairly well, even thou 3.4 is bit lower, your not going to try and drive much under 70 / 80 or so hertz. [sealed can be pushed lower a bit]

    You should pick up a couple db in sensitivity.

    Plus a couple of other benefits I found to be well worth it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    hey James, I just got my 3x5 drivers in, by looking at your photo, I always assumed that I can simple mount them in between 2 planks of long thin piece of wood, but turns out there isnt much space between the edge of the spider and the end of the face plate, and I don't know how to mount them. Do I have to cut out 20 3x5 oval holes to make a proper baffle for mounting? Doesn't look like it on your photo. How did u mount them? a close up shot maybe?

    thx.

  12. #12

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    I used a wide head screw and edge mounted them. Not that good, but good enough till I can do a proper baffle. I'm assuming i'll need to make a pattern and then rout oval holes.

    The wiring is a mess, I'll have to figure out some way to fasten it when I do a little better baffle.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Thx for the photos, I spent the whole of 4th july at home by myself mounting these 3x5s and then spent hours wiring them. Not only because I have no friends, but it has been raining all day up here in fort collins.

    Anyway, I read through Bill's forum and half followed his design, well, more like 5% followed his design! - basically I went with 9 drivers per side only as with the TLAH mounted vertically as suggested. And thats about it! No tweeter line for now, but I just wanted to hear it fullrange and see how much I need the tweets. No enclosure, just mounted between 2 planks of wood, 50 inches tall - open baffle.

    I have to say that my first impression was a little anti climatic. It sounded just like 9 TV speakers played free air together, and thats basically what I have here - no surprises in that sense. I guess I was kidding myself when I thought some line array magic would turn these cheap speakers in to audio utopia. Anyway, with heavy EQ, I was able to make it sound more reasonable. But basically, I don't know what to take as my next step, and I'd like some advice.

    Ironically, I don't miss any high freq at all, which is what I thought would be my biggest problems. I think if I am to make an array with these, I can live without a tweeeter line. The bloated midrange from 400Hz up is a big problem - although expected. EQ has to be used to take care of that, but still it doesn't sound right. Between 100-150Hz its pretty pathetic - again, expected, especially when open baffle, but I can hear distortion at relatively low volume.

    I guess I have always expected these short comings, but I thought it would not be that bad. Anyway, Obviously I have now a few things to do:



    1. mount them horizontally and add drivers - maybe 20 per side. This should take care of distortion problems, make the line longer so its more like a real line array, increase powerhandling etc.

    2. Mount them on a proper baffle and build a box. I modeled them in winISD but I get very peaky response with very large volumes required, can anyone suggest a good size? seal? ported? Is it true that if sub 100Hz is not important, the size of the box is unimportant? I will be using a sub.

    i will continue in a bit with photos to come.

  14. #14

    Default Re: JVC Buyout Line Array Impressions

    Alternatively, I can continue to build Bill's design, which I'm sure will impress me. 1 question I do have, how much EQ does the cross over in Bill's TLAH have? My guess is must be alot! It would be nice if I can build something XOless, but looks like thats not going to happen. Since I already have the drivers, the tweeters are uber cheap, all I will need is to do is to buy the plans for the box and the XO. I wonder if these buyout drivers can be direct replacement to the original design, from reading the forums, it sounds like it.

    or, I can get over it and go build some 2 ways.



    For now, I am tempted to keep going and build a proper enclosure and mount about 18 of them horizontally each side and see how it goes. My guess is I will still need heavy active EQ, which i only have when my computer is the source. Thats why I am thinking of just building the TLAH, and hope they will be more "plug and play" once they are finished.

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