AC130MKII and Morel CAT408

[Ludo]

Been listening to these since the weekend and initially had the 20L cabinet tuned to 40Hz for an F3 of 49Hz, but the bass sounded slightly flat for my liking so I cut down the port tube to retune the cabinet to 46Hz for an F3 of 45Hz, but the bass sounded a bit thick with just a hint of boominess. So next I will try an intermediate port length to retune the cabinet to 43Hz, also with an F3 of 45Hz. Hopefully this will be a good compromise; we're talking about +/-0.75" on the 2"D x 5"L port tube.

Otherwise, I am really liking the sound of this system (best I've built so far) and have ordered the final x-over parts.

No suggestions on how to finish Rosewood?
Might have to start a separate thread.

Louis

[Æ]

I can't get rid of that calendar

What did one calendar say to the other?

Hey good looking, how about a date!

[Ludo]

What did one calendar say to the other?

Hey good looking, how about a date!

Still stuck on the calendar

Any ideas how best to finish Rosewood

Louis

[davepellegrene]

Here is a link to three methods that go into pretty good detail. Also tells you not what to do.
Dave

[Ludo]

Here is a link to three methods that go into pretty good detail. Also tells you not what to do.
Dave

Thanks Dave,

The shellac and wax technique (option #2) looks promising.

The veneer appears very dry to me in some spots, especially on close inspection. Does this need any kind of treatment or is it normal?

Also, I was thinking of staining the veneer to get a slightly reddish color. I presume the techniques described in the article you attached would still work?

Louis

[davepellegrene]

Thanks Dave,

The shellac and wax technique (option #2) looks promising.

The veneer appears very dry to me in some spots, especially on close inspection. Does this need any kind of treatment or is it normal?

Also, I was thinking of staining the veneer to get a slightly reddish color. I presume the techniques described in the article you attached would still work?

Louis

I am definitely not an expert with Rosewood or veneering. If the spots you describe feel rough or dry there may be a chance they would take stain darker. A couple of things come to mind to try. I have had better luck if I want the wood to take on a curtain tone, as you say a reddish tint, I will mix the stain in the finish instead of applying it directly to the wood. This helps eliminate shading. Another technique is to thin the shellac with alcohol and apply a coat before you stain. Then lightly sand and apply your stain. I would then seal the stain with another coat or so with shellac. Then do the wax treatment.
Don Parson recently had a thread using rosewood on a knife he made that had some good info on sealing and waxing technique's.

There is also "amber" shellac that might take on the look you are after. It may be a little to orange, but may be worth looking into.

I have Brazilian Cherry for a hardwood floor, which really isn't cherry, but it darkens when exposed to light just like what cherry does. So I would be careful with getting the Rosewood to dark because I would think it will also tend to darken with age.

Oh, if you mix stain with the shellac it would have to be alcohol based. You can use regular stain, I believe, if you put it directly on the wood and let it dry thoroughly before sealing. Penetrating stains can take 72 hours before drying completely.

I would do a separate thread and I bet you would get a lot of info and idea's. Bob Barkto is pretty sharp on this stuff.
Dave

[Ludo]

I am definitely not an expert with Rosewood or veneering. If the spots you describe feel rough or dry there may be a chance they would take stain darker. A couple of things come to mind to try. I have had better luck if I want the wood to take on a curtain tone, as you say a reddish tint, I will mix the stain in the finish instead of applying it directly to the wood. This helps eliminate shading. Another technique is to thin the shellac with alcohol and apply a coat before you stain. Then lightly sand and apply your stain. I would then seal the stain with another coat or so with shellac. Then do the wax treatment.
Don Parson recently had a thread using rosewood on a knife he made that had some good info on sealing and waxing technique's.

There is also "amber" shellac that might take on the look you are after. It may be a little to orange, but may be worth looking into.

I have Brazilian Cherry for a hardwood floor, which really isn't cherry, but it darkens when exposed to light just like what cherry does. So I would be careful with getting the Rosewood to dark because I would think it will also tend to darken with age.

Oh, if you mix stain with the shellac it would have to be alcohol based. You can use regular stain, I believe, if you put it directly on the wood and let it dry thoroughly before sealing. Penetrating stains can take 72 hours before drying completely.

I would do a separate thread and I bet you would get a lot of info and idea's. Bob Barkto is pretty sharp on this stuff.
Dave

Dave,

Thanks again for all the ideas and insights.

I looked up Don's knife thread and he used the following technique, "I sanded to 600, then buffed with three levels of compound and finished with a combination of beeswax and carnuba that was blended and sent to me." So basically is this option #3 in the link that you sent? What the heck is carnuba?

I'll definitely start a separate thread before I start the final finish which is still looking like a couple of weeks away after I veneer the tops, sand all the edges, and test the final x-overs.

Louis

[davepellegrene]

Dave,

Thanks again for all the ideas and insights.

I looked up Don's knife thread and he used the following technique, "I sanded to 600, then buffed with three levels of compound and finished with a combination of beeswax and carnuba that was blended and sent to me." So basically is this option #3 in the link that you sent? What the heck is carnuba?

I'll definitely start a separate thread before I start the final finish which is still looking like a couple of weeks away after I veneer the tops, sand all the edges, and test the final x-overs.

Louis

I thought there was more info, in that link, about sealing and waxing. Carnuba I believe is just a type of wax. I use Mequiars yellow carnuba wax on my boat. Its good stuff. As far as wax goes on wood I have always liked Min wax past wax. Here. I would think just an oil with wax is going to give you more of a natural look like nothing is on the wood but a slight sheen. If you seal with shellac then wax you will get a grain showing through, but still see a finish on the wood. With some finish on the wood you can get any sheen you want from flat to gloss, just by how fine you sand or steel wool the finish. Also the more coats of shellac you put on the less grain that will show and the more glass like it will look. You can build up with shellac pretty fast. If you don't want to much build up thinning the shellac will make it soak in and leave the grain show.
Dave

[Ludo]

I thought there was more info, in that link, about sealing and waxing. Carnuba I believe is just a type of wax. I use Mequiars yellow carnuba wax on my boat. Its good stuff. As far as wax goes on wood I have always liked Min wax past wax. Here. I would think just an oil with wax is going to give you more of a natural look like nothing is on the wood but a slight sheen. If you seal with shellac then wax you will get a grain showing through, but still see a finish on the wood. With some finish on the wood you can get any sheen you want from flat to gloss, just by how fine you sand or steel wool the finish. Also the more coats of shellac you put on the less grain that will show and the more glass like it will look. You can build up with shellac pretty fast. If you don't want to much build up thinning the shellac will make it soak in and leave the grain show.
Dave

Dave,

I am looking for as close to a flat, natural look as possible, except I'd like to try for a slightly redish color, and do want the grain to show through. I do no want a glassy look at all, but was thinking that the shellac would help protect the wood and stabilize the finish vs just wax. Once I give these to my younger sister, I don't expect her to ever have to reapply wax. I also heard hat shellac tends to yellow with age; is that really an issue?

Louis

[davepellegrene]

Dave,

I am looking for as close to a flat, natural look as possible, except I'd like to try for a slightly redish color, and do want the grain to show through. I do no want a glassy look at all, but was thinking that the shellac would help protect the wood and stabilize the finish vs just wax. Once I give these to my younger sister, I don't expect her to ever have to reapply wax. I also heard hat shellac tends to yellow with age; is that really an issue?Louis

I don't think you need to worry to much about yellowing. It sounds like you won't be building the shellac up that much. I would think the thicker the finish the more chance for it to yellow.
I would put on the first coat thinned down and see how that goes. If it comes out rough enough that a rag sticks to it when your wiping it I would sand with a 220 grit and apply another coat. If it feels fairly smooth I would sand with 400 grit then apply another coat. Shellac is going to dry shinny, so you could get a grey scott brite pad or triple #000 steel wool instead of #0000 so you don't shine them up. I prefer the scotch brite pads if you are not trying to bring out a shine. If you use steel wool make sure you do it before you put the drivers in. All the little pieces from the steel wool stick all over the drivers because of the magnets and are a real pain to get off.
As far as the red tint goes I can't really help you since I have not used Rosewood. I would try some sample pieces to see how it takes the stain. If it goes on to dark I would try mixing it with the finish. It really depends on how absorbent the wood is. You could apply the stain after the first coat of thinned down shellac if it is taking it to dark.
Hope you have some scraps to work with. Maybe the driver cut outs.
Dave

[Æ]

Still stuck on the calendar

Any ideas how best to finish Rosewood

Louis

I'm very amateur (inexperienced) when it comes to fine finishes. My next pair of loudspeakers will have a sprayed on paint job.
I finished the hardwood frame of my little tube amp with Tung Oil. Natural and shiny.

[Ludo]

I don't think you need to worry to much about yellowing. It sounds like you won't be building the shellac up that much. I would think the thicker the finish the more chance for it to yellow.
I would put on the first coat thinned down and see how that goes. If it comes out rough enough that a rag sticks to it when your wiping it I would sand with a 220 grit and apply another coat. If it feels fairly smooth I would sand with 400 grit then apply another coat. Shellac is going to dry shinny, so you could get a grey scott brite pad or triple #000 steel wool instead of #0000 so you don't shine them up. I prefer the scotch brite pads if you are not trying to bring out a shine. If you use steel wool make sure you do it before you put the drivers in. All the little pieces from the steel wool stick all over the drivers because of the magnets and are a real pain to get off.
As far as the red tint goes I can't really help you since I have not used Rosewood. I would try some sample pieces to see how it takes the stain. If it goes on to dark I would try mixing it with the finish. It really depends on how absorbent the wood is. You could apply the stain after the first coat of thinned down shellac if it is taking it to dark.
Hope you have some scraps to work with. Maybe the driver cut outs.
Dave

Dave,

Yes I have lots of scraps to practice on so I can apply the shellac in steps as well as the sanding and buffing to make sure it has the desired look. I may skip the redish stain as the mellow brown of the rosewood is starting to grow on me.

Louis

[Ludo]

I'm very amateur (inexperienced) when it comes to fine finishes. My next pair of loudspeakers will have a sprayed on paint job.
I finished the hardwood frame of my little tube amp with Tung Oil. Natural and shiny.

Hey, you're more experienced than I am How did you know to use Tung Oil, and why is tongue misspelled?

Louis

[Æ]

Hey, you're more experienced than I am How did you know to use Tung Oil, and why is tongue misspelled?

Louis

I go to my local ACE hardware store, they are well stocked with every conceivable stain/finish etc. I buy what they recommend. Tung oil was very easy to use, almost idiot proof.
I spelled tung correctly. LOL

[Wolf]

So the finish was to your 'taste'?
Wolf

[Ludo]

So the finish was to your 'taste'?
Wolf

Still deciding on the finish; so far its either shellac or tung oil. I'll get started on that next week.

Making some progress though. Here are the x-over boards; yes I know, its a lot of parts, but then this was not intended to be a budget build. I split the woofer x-over onto two boards to make it easier to install in the enclosure.

Louis

[gowa]

Those are going to be beautiful.

[Ludo]

Those are going to be beautiful.

Thanks Gowa,

Just need to keep reminding myself to take my time

I'm off to Southen Lumber this morning to check out their Rosewood Stock for the pedastals and to get their input on finishing options.

Louis

[Æ]

Thanks Gowa,

Just need to keep reminding myself to take my time

I'm off to Southen Lumber this morning to check out their Rosewood Stock for the pedastals and to get their input on finishing options.

Louis

This is what my project looks like, the one I used Tung Oil to finish.
By the way, Tung Oil isn't oily, it dries to a hard finish. You apply as many coats as you like, one at a time. The finish builds up. Cleanup was very easy too.
The wood is Bubinga and Walnut. Hardwood, not veneer.

[bobbarkto]

If your rosewood is oily (good chance of that) I would use shellac.
Any finish with oil in it will likely not dry properly if applied to bare rosewood.
Finishes to avoid: varnish, tung oil, tung oil varnish, lacquer (yes, lacquer has oil as it's base), polyurethane, linseed oil, danish oil, spar varnish etc.

Shellac is the universal sealer/barrier coat. Almost anything can be applied over shellac, except straight oils and some hot finishes like auto urethanes and some lacquers.

To get more red, use a dye, preferably oil based or transtint.
Oil based dyes are dissolved in mineral sprits, etc. They are easy to work with and won't raise the grain or introduce excess moisture.

Alcohol based dyes dry too quickly to be applied by hand to any large surface. They can be added to your shellac. Dissolve in alcohol first.

It's tricky using a tinted shellac or other film forming finish. Any overlap or heavy areas show more color intensity, ie: streaks and blotches.
Best to tread lightly with the color and use more coats, but not too many or the finish will be too thick. You can thin shellac to almost nothing without worry.
It's a balancing act.

After coloring apply another coat or three or four of very thin shellac. Rub with a bit of gray scotchbrite or 0000 steel wool.
You might want to wax after that, maybe not.

The wax I sent Don was something special for tool handles. A mix of hard and soft waxes and oils designed to be fairly durable yet not too slippery.

Straight carnuba wax is hard, very hard. It also produces a high gloss sheen and feels more like a high gloss lacquer under the hand. Not what you describe for your desired result?
Beeswax just glows with a beautiful soft sheen, might be just right, but is soft and can be sticky if applied too thick and is not too durable by itself. The right blend can work pretty well in a variety of applications.

Still deciding on the finish; so far its either shellac or tung oil. I'll get started on that next week.

Louis