Appropriate SPL

[Phil_RC_1]

I am one of the soundmen at my church. Presently we tend to set the level at a max of 100dB peak. I am measuring the spl at the rear of the church from the front of the sound board. I would prefer a lower level but when I try to achieve a lower spl the mix gets outta whack (LOL). We have an enclosed drum cage but still the drums are quite loud. We also have horns and I find I have to pump up the electric guit, singers just to even out with the horns, drums and stage monitors.

Is 100dB too much? legally?

Thanx, Phil

[Paul O]

The sound level may not be illegal depending where you are, but you have to realize you are exposing the people at the front to higer sound levels than those at the rear... potentially much higher depending upon the size of the room. You have the very common problem of WAY too much stage volume and you're only going to fix the mix by reducing the racket they make. Electric drums and in-ear monitors would mostly solve your problem but people are often resistant to both. Other options include installing more sound absorbent material around the band.. a heavy drape behind them, carpet on the floor, and position the monitors and instrument amplifiers to point directly at the performers heads.. not their ankles.

[tom_s]

I wish I had something up my sleeve that would help your situation, but it's all in the physics. What's behind the drum kit? If it's a hard wall, that may be why it gets out in the house despite the plexi barrier. I am amazed that you can get to 100dB at a church service. The older folks at our church would running for the door and writing angry letters to the pastor! But we are an older, fairly conservative congregation.

Yep, it's the age old battle! In the band that I'm mixing for right now, the drummer hits VERY hard. He's on an electronic kit most of the time, but still uses real cymbals in all but the smallest clubs-like the room last night. They have no guitar amps on stage, just POD pedalboards (soon to have iso-cabs w/ real tube amps!) and they all have in-ear monitors and their own monitor board. It does make my life much easier, but I still get a lot of cymbal bleed into the vocal mics in some rooms. To say that the bleed doesn't mix well with the overheads on the drum kit is an understatement. I have to get the fronts up to fairly good level before the mix falls into place. But after 25+ years at FOH, I usually don't like it that loud anymore...


Tom

[Phil_RC_1]

Thanx guys. I should have added the sound level is with C-weighting. A-weighting runs below 90dB in the back where I am.

We put up some small knee walls this week and things were better tonight at practice. The short walls in front of the band actually do help keep monitors isolated a bit.

Thanx again, Phil

[billfitzmaurice]

Thanx guys. I should have added the sound level is with C-weighting. A-weighting runs below 90dB in the back where I am.

A weighting is of no value.

[Phil_RC_1]

A weighting is of no value.

Aren't OSHA and EPA standards spec'ed using A weighting?

[billfitzmaurice]

Aren't OSHA and EPA standards spec'ed using A weighting?

They are. When's the last time you saw the government do something the right way?

[meep]

We can seat up to 1100, and hold max 95 dB in our service. Drums behind plexi. Use "warmer" drum heads to reduce the edge. Psych (sp?) or fiber curtain behind the stage. It is *very* hard to keep the heavier-handed players to back down. That was my job as rehearsal director for 3 yrs. sound tech and RD have to work together when tech alone can't solve a SPL matter. The above suggestions for in-ears, amp placement and going direct are critical. we do all 3. After a few trials folks are usually accepting of in-ears. Headaches regarding batteries, "ownership" of the earbuds, lost earbugs, and the occassional pack-falls-in-the-toilet ensue (Shure has a great warranty). Plus 5-10 minutes of each rehearsal dedicated to getting ear mixes set.

Did find that setting appropriate delays in the mains took much edge off the drum sounds (ie, amplified sound hits the listener before the real sound due to mains placement). Getting those delays right smoothed it out a good bit. I find that people are much more accepting of 100dB if its mixed well. A crummy mix at 93 dB far worse than a great mix at 100.

My bottom line, however, is FOH can't fix it all. The musicians must be aware of how they sound. Nobody wants to sound bad. And if the attitude is such that they'd rather play loud and it's someone else's problem, then they shouldn't be there.