Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

[Wolf]

What's this?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=275-140



Interesting...

I wondered how long it would take....

Looks very feasible for a *lot* of projects.
You prolly can't go wrong with either unit.
Later,
Wolf

[PunkSweeper]

No reason whatsoever. Jeff B did the Dreydel using metal cone mid woofer and fabric dome tweeter.

And as anyone whose heard the Dreydel will attest, in this case, metal and fabric are a match made in audio heaven.

Well, I don't see why perfect uniformity in cone material could be totally mute, and I'd still like to see some RS drivers with less breakup-prone cone materials such as Titanic-style Kevlar impregnated paper, Polypropylene, or even Woven Carbon Fiber.

[dlr]

Very interesting indeed. Nothing like an Usher 9950 or 9930 dome. I might have to cabbage onto a pair of these to play around with. Dig through the sofa time I guess.

shawn

To me it looks like a challenger to the SS D2905/9700, the copper-clad soft dome that also has a rising top end. Likely rising due to the lowered inductance profile. They use the same soft dome, 9300/9500/9700 I think. That makes it somewhat of a clone of the 9700, since the Usher was something of a clone of the SS line.

The droop is gone purely due to the soft dome, another plus in my book. Sure looks like a great driver at a great price to me if the consistency is there. That's the hard part of soft domes (pardon the pun).

dlr

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Well, I don't see why perfect uniformity in cone material could be totally mute, and I'd still like to see some RS drivers with less breakup-prone cone materials such as Titanic-style Kevlar impregnated paper, Polypropylene, or even Woven Carbon Fiber.

Then where is the silk cone to match the silk tweeter?

[PunkSweeper]

Then where is the silk cone to match the silk tweeter?

Predictable response much?

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Predictable response much?

I guess you can tell I'm not much into "matching" driver materials for any other reason than aesthetic.

Hey, you brought up matching driver materials, not me . . .

[PunkSweeper]

I guess you can tell I'm not much into "matching" driver materials for any other reason than aesthetic.

Hey, you brought up matching driver materials, not me . . .

To each is own.

[Jeff B.]

To each is own.

Let's be fair to Pete here. You did make a point of this. However, I doubt you want a paper cone tweeter to go with your paper cone midbass, or a woven carbon fiber tweeter, or woven kevlar tweeter (although that's been done, just not very well). And you don't want a soft silk cone midbass either. So, what would a soft dome be a material match to in midbasses? Even in metal drivers it's not really a match since the material thickness and shape for an aluminum woofer and a tweeter are very different in ways to really matter. In the end, to me anyway, this postion of matching materials just doesn't seem to hold up very well. But, as you say, "to each his own."

[davepellegrene]

I'll tell you what, Dirk. If you are really interested in building the speaker. Let me know and I'll share the design with you.

Jeff

I have waited for a response for 24 hours. I hope he PMed you. Since I heard these at InDIYana I have gatherer all the info you have put out there. I have been playing with it in PCD. I'd share it with you but you would probably say " not quite sure what you're trying to do there,but". Any way I sure hope you do share it someday. Unbelievable sound came out of those.
Dave

[PunkSweeper]

Let's be fair to Pete here. You did make a point of this. However, I doubt you want a paper cone tweeter to go with your paper cone midbass, or a woven carbon fiber tweeter, or woven kevlar tweeter (although that's been done, just not very well). And you don't want a soft silk cone midbass either. So, what would a soft dome be a material match to in midbasses? Even in metal drivers it's not really a match since the material thickness and shape for an aluminum woofer and a tweeter are very different in ways to really matter. In the end, to me anyway, this postion of matching materials just doesn't seem to hold up very well. But, as you say, "to each his own."

I hate to drag this on, but I'm not too keen on paper cone mid basses, let alone paper cone tweeters, although I'm pretty sure the last paper tweeter design is from 1979.

Also, I'm pretty sure a fabric tweeter will behave more like a paper cone as far as breakup, timbre, etc. than a metal cone. Perhaps I should have said that I don't like to mix "soft" and "hard" diaphragm materials.

I am, however, listening to paper tweeters right now. They're paired with coated Carbon Fiber woofers and High Polymer Molecular super tweeters. Go figure.

[Jeff B.]

I hate to drag this on, but I'm not too keen on paper cone mid basses, let alone paper cone tweeters, although I'm pretty sure the last paper tweeter design is from 1979.

Also, I'm pretty sure a fabric tweeter will behave more like a paper cone as far as breakup, timbre, etc. than a metal cone. Perhaps I should have said that I don't like to mix "soft" and "hard" diaphragm materials.

I am, however, listening to paper tweeters right now. They're paired with coated Carbon Fiber woofers and High Polymer Molecular super tweeters. Go figure.

A molecular super tweeter should have great dispersion

[Jeff B.]

I have waited for a response for 24 hours. I hope he PMed you. Since I heard these at InDIYana I have gatherer all the info you have put out there. I have been playing with it in PCD. I'd share it with you but you would probably say " not quite sure what you're trying to do there,but". Any way I sure hope you do share it someday. Unbelievable sound came out of those.
Dave

Do you really want to build a pair? Make the commitment and I will share the design.

Jeff

[davepellegrene]

Do you really want to build a pair? Make the commitment and I will share the design.

Jeff

I would definitely build a pair of them if you want to share the design.
Dave

[markk]

I'm looking forward to testing this. Charlie should be letting me borrow his pair that's coming.

A couple of notes.

Metal cones and domes generally have a tad less distortion than their soft dome counterparts. What this means in an audible sense is anyone's guess. Not much would be mine if the distortion differences are small...still, it might influence your choice of low end xover.

I think that there is no good reason to assume drivers of the same material, or hard/soft go better together. Each has a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

I picked a metal dome (the DXT) to go with a paper cone, the ER18. A soft dome tweeter would not have been as good since no corresponding DXT type soft dome exists. Nonetheless it's not a drawback-in fact there is no other choice that works as well in terms of off axis response.

I think Dennis M's comments still apply. Shiny metal domes sound bright since they look bright. Of course, black metal domes are much more refined because, well, they are black, and have a subdued low key fine black metal mesh, making them audibly stealthy... There must be some sort of analogous rule that covers using soft dome tweeters and paper cones.

Anyway, we'll see how these test out. Now if PE would only come out with a DXT type horn...

[Jeff B.]

I'm looking forward to testing this. Charlie should be letting me borrow his pair that's coming.

A couple of notes.

Metal cones and domes generally have a tad less distortion than their soft dome counterparts. What this means in an audible sense is anyone's guess. Not much would be mine if the distortion differences are small...still, it might influence your choice of low end xover.

I think that there is no good reason to assume drivers of the same material, or hard/soft go better together. Each has a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

I picked a metal dome (the DXT) to go with a paper cone, the ER18. A soft dome tweeter would not have been as good since no corresponding DXT type soft dome exists. Nonetheless it's not a drawback-in fact there is no other choice that works as well in terms of off axis response.

I think Dennis M's comments still apply. Shiny metal domes sound bright since they look bright. Of course, black metal domes are much more refined because, well, they are black, and have a subdued low key fine black metal mesh, making them audibly stealthy... There must be some sort of analogous rule that covers using soft dome tweeters and paper cones.

Anyway, we'll see how these test out. Now if PE would only come out with a DXT type horn...

I think Dennis is a brilliant speaker designer, and I always appreciate his insights. This would probably explain why Silver Flute woofers sound kinda wooly, and why ribbons sound thin.

[Jeff B.]

I would definitely build a pair of them if you want to share the design.
Dave

send me an email or pm

[davepellegrene]

send me an email or pm

Sent you a pm.
Thanks Dave

[critofur]

Got some RS28F in today, only opened one up to look at it so far - good news - it has the same measured sensitivity sticker on the side and this one says 90.2 db

Will have to measure this sucker this weekend.

[dlneubec]

Here is a question that Curt C. posted in over at HtGuide. Will the replacement silk dome diaphrams for the RS28F-4 fit in the body of the metal dome RS28A?

If so, that could prove interesting.

[critofur]

Here is a question that Curt C. posted in over at HtGuide. Will the replacement silk dome diaphrams for the RS28F-4 fit in the body of the metal dome RS28A?

If so, that could prove interesting.

The metal grills are different. The sillk? dome protrudes further and the shape of the protective metal grill thus has to stick out further also.

I have both, so I could see if the diaphragm fits (I would assume it does).

You'd have to pop the metal grill off, if you want to switch your RS28 metal dome tweeters over to the soft domes...