3-Way Studio Monitor - Thoughts?

[Chrismo]

I am an electronic music and speaker enthusiast. I have recently started to make my own electronic music so I felt it necessary to have something a little more balanced and suited for the job of studio monitoring. I want the setup to be pretty revealing, have a decently flat response, and to not be fatiguing. I have built subs before, but never a multi-driver speaker, let alone a studio monitor. I fully realize that on my first try I am probably not going to make a monitor that is better than what I can go out and buy, but I want to try any way. That being said, here are the drivers I am thinking about using.

Bohlender Graebener Neo3-PDRW Planar Tweeter
Tang Band W4-1337SD
Tang Band W6-1721

I am not so sure the W6 is the best driver for the low end here as some sites have shown it to distort down low a little bit more than other drivers, additionally it is rather expensive. What are peoples thoughts on this setup? I was possibly thinking about using an Usher 8" instead of the W6, but I am open to all forms of ideas on any of these drivers or the configuration in general.

I plan to use a sealed cabinet to keep the sound as accurate as possible and because I do not need too much low bass since most people's stereo systems cannot reproduce it anyway. I would like to aim for an F3 of around 40hz or lower though.

Any help would be greatly appreciated especially in regards to the crossover, volumes, and any material/programs that might help me model the system. Thanks!

-Chris

[Pete Schumacher ®]

I am an electronic music and speaker enthusiast. I have recently started to make my own electronic music so I felt it necessary to have something a little more balanced and suited for the job of studio monitoring. I want the setup to be pretty revealing, have a decently flat response, and to not be fatiguing. I have built subs before, but never a multi-driver speaker, let alone a studio monitor. I fully realize that on my first try I am probably not going to make a monitor that is better than what I can go out and buy, but I want to try any way. That being said, here are the drivers I am thinking about using.

Bohlender Graebener Neo3-PDRW Planar Tweeter
Tang Band W4-1337SD
Tang Band W6-1721

I am not so sure the W6 is the best driver for the low end here as some sites have shown it to distort down low a little bit more than other drivers, additionally it is rather expensive. What are peoples thoughts on this setup? I was possibly thinking about using an Usher 8" instead of the W6, but I am open to all forms of ideas on any of these drivers or the configuration in general.

I plan to use a sealed cabinet to keep the sound as accurate as possible and because I do not need too much low bass since most people's stereo systems cannot reproduce it anyway. I would like to aim for an F3 of around 40hz or lower though.

Any help would be greatly appreciated especially in regards to the crossover, volumes, and any material/programs that might help me model the system. Thanks!

-Chris

Go with the RS225. Very musical driver.

[howard]

Along those lines...

http://www.audioheuristics.org/proje...ence_rs225.htm

Sorry did not see the 3 way part. Take a look anyway.

[Chrismo]

Interesting. Pete, you are recommending the RS225 as a replacement for the W6 in my design or to replace both the W6 and the W4? Any thoughts on the rest of the setup? Thanks! =]

[critofur]

+1 on the RS225 recommendation.

If you want to use that tweeter, and you decide to use the RS225 for the bottom, you probably want to stick to the 3-way idea. Only a few tweeters reach low enough to matchup well with the 225 in a 2-way...

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Interesting. Pete, you are recommending the RS225 as a replacement for the W6 in my design or to replace both the W6 and the W4? Any thoughts on the rest of the setup? Thanks! =]

The 225 instead of the W6. The 1337 is a very nice midrange, giving you flexibility in crossover point. The 225 is good to 800Hz, maybe even higher. The Statement WMTMW uses the RS225 and TB1337, but uses a ribbon instead of the Neo3.

have you looked at the latest project in the showcase?




A 10" 3-way using the RS270, RS52 dome mid, and RS28 tweeter. Response to 50Hz in a small sealed enclosure, with plenty of dynamic capacity.

[Chrismo]

Ya i definitely saw that DIY project but the cost of the crossover components makes the pair come to $1600 or so. I don't have that much to spend. Is there a link to the speaker you are describing that uses the ribbon? Thanks!

[Paul Carmody]

If you're looking for something as accurate as a studio monitor, I cannot recommend enough that you NOT try to design it yourself. Crossover design is hard--and is absolutely critical in application such as the one you want to attempt. If you have building skills from subwoofers, it's a good chance to parlay those skills into making a good, solid speaker using a proven design.

What frequency range do you wish for these to cover?
What is your budget?
Is there a commercial design you like the look and/or sound of?

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Ya i definitely saw that DIY project but the cost of the crossover components makes the pair come to $1600 or so. I don't have that much to spend. Is there a link to the speaker you are describing that uses the ribbon? Thanks!

Contact Curt C for the Statement projects.

[Chrismo]

What frequency range do you wish for these to cover?
What is your budget?
Is there a commercial design you like the look and/or sound of?

40-20000hz should be sufficient. I would like to build the pair for $500-700. I like the Yamaha HS80M's and the Event TR8's, but I haven't really heard anything more expensive besides maybe the Mackie 8's.

I appreciate your advise. I still think I would like to build a pair of really nice speakers. Whether or not they could be used in a studio is another thing. I really care most about clarity and hearing everything in the sound, not necessarily the flattest response (I just thought I should add that). I am not doing any of the mastering personally so the speakers don't necessarily need to be setup for that purpose. I guess I should say I am trying to build a studio monitor "like" speaker that is not fatiguing and very clear.

[Mark65]

Replace every cap in the Black Boxes with either Dayton Poly's or NPE's, or a combination of both which is the way I'd go with it, especially the 600uF cap in series with the woofer. Those caps are over $360 all by themselves!

Also, money can be saved on the resistors by going to Dayton sand cast, or even more by using the xicom wire wound resistors on page 135 of the catalog (thanks to Wolf for this little tidbit). 39 cents vs $3.75 goes a ways when you're talking about 10 resistors...I'd leave the coils alone though, the dcr is a pretty important consideration.

But, you could certainly build that a LOT cheaper!

Oh and I'm guessing you're going to find some NPE's in your baseline monitors that you listed, maybe even in the Mackie's.


Mark

[critofur]

The 225 instead of the W6. The 1337 is a very nice midrange, giving you flexibility in crossover point. The 225 is good to 800Hz, maybe even higher.

I'd say it's more than just good past 1Khz.

Here's a 2-way with the RS225:



I've heard the RS225 in another 2-way besides that one - it's one of my favorite drivers.

[Paul Carmody]

I really care most about clarity and hearing everything in the sound, not necessarily the flattest response (I just thought I should add that). I am not doing any of the mastering personally so the speakers don't necessarily need to be setup for that purpose. I guess I should say I am trying to build a studio monitor "like" speaker that is not fatiguing and very clear.

Again, what you're asking for is the heavy-lifting job of a crossover. And a good crossover design like that goes light years beyond "textbook"-calculated crossovers and off-the-shelf XOs.

Why do DIYers tell me to do a "proven" design first?

40-20000hz should be sufficient. I would like to build the pair for $500-700. I like the Yamaha HS80M's and the Event TR8's, but I haven't really heard anything more expensive besides maybe the Mackie 8's.

For that budget, you can reach very high in the world of DIY. Off the top of my head, I would suggest
Dennis Murphy's Usher 2-way
David Ralph's Chameleon
Mark K's ER18DXT

If you step down a few hundred dollars, there are even more excellent monitor-style designs.

[markk]

I agree with Paul

There is the fun of diy. In which case, go at it. But your first try will not be that great. I mean, that's usually the case. Then you'll learn, build another, etc, etc.

Now if you want a top notch solution out the door, so to speak, build one of the designs, or at least consider it or a similar design by one of the guys who've been at it a while.

If you don't really need much below 40-50 Hz, I would favor a well executed 2 way over a 3 way. No doubt a three way will be "better" but the cost of a well executed/designed one will probably go outside your budget.

hope that helps!

mark

[Pete Schumacher ®]

I'd say it's more than just good past 1Khz.

Here's a 2-way with the RS225:



I've heard the RS225 in another 2-way besides that one - it's one of my favorite drivers.

the only reason I don't push the RS225 as a two way is because the XO is a bit involved to control breakup. NOT a "first time" two way woofer.

But there are some well established 3-ways using the RS225.

[Chrismo]

I have been reading reviews on drivers and read over the links to various kits posted here. I think the Usher 701 kit might be the closest 2-way to what I would want. In any case, I have been thinking about using the Neo3, RS225, and W4 with a 4 ohm resistor on the tweeter and a pre-assembled Dayton crossover:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...60-156&scqty=2

I know this isn't going to sound the best, but I'd like to get my hands dirty with something that functions and then go from there. I have been reading the loudspeaker design cookbook and will probably pick up a book on cross overs. I figure if I get it up and running with roughly the crossover points I want and with the sensitivities all approximately 87db/1w/1m I can always redesign the crossover later since the vast majority of the cost is in the box and the drivers (with this XO setup anyway). Could anyone recommend me a good book on cross overs and a relatively easy to use box program (unibox????) to calculate the volumes for the 8" and the mid range. Also if anyone sees potential disaster with this idea/design please let me know! =]

[Mark65]

Could anyone recommend me a good book on cross overs and a relatively easy to use box program (unibox????) to calculate the volumes for the 8" and the mid range. Also if anyone sees potential disaster with this idea/design please let me know! =]

WinIsd is a pretty good box program, it's a stand-alone type app. Unibox and Jeff B.'s Woofer Box and Circuit Designer are also very good, but require you to have MS Excel.

As to the disaster aspect, consider yourself notified. won't work, won't work, won't work!

You can get your hands just as dirty building a proven design, and it will actually sound good. I'm pretty sure that the designers around here will discuss their reasons for various XO decisions as well, thus making it a learning experience to boot.

Please don't go the prebuilt XO route, you'll really hate it.


Mark

[Chrismo]

Please don't go the prebuilt XO route, you'll really hate it.

Ok, thanks! I will research more.

[martyh]

One of the great ironies of Parts Express is the sale of pre-built crossovers without any concern regarding the characteristics to what drives might be attached to them, then selling some of the finest values in raw drivers available anywhere.

Follow Paul and Marks guidance by building a proven design. Build the enclosure to fit your needs and start the bragging! The Usher design is terrific!

[Chrismo]

One of the great ironies of Parts Express is the sale of pre-built crossovers without any concern regarding the characteristics to what drives might be attached to them, then selling some of the finest values in raw drivers available anywhere.

Follow Paul and Marks guidance by building a proven design. Build the enclosure to fit your needs and start the bragging! The Usher design is terrific!

Are you referring to the UA701 kit or the Usher design further up in this thread? Thanks!