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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    CT
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    749

    Default Monster Sonosub build

    Recent luck and generosity got me a free Ascendent Audio Avalanche 18" subwoofer driver. Not only that, but from another very generous person, I got an eight foot section of 24" diameter sonotube. I had some 3/4" plywood under my porch collecting dust for the past 10 years that will serve as the end caps. I bought an 8" diameter sonotube for the port (not quite sure of the tuning yet, so I'll start long and see what happens). I've got a whole $6.02 invested in this so far (not counting the gas to drive all over CT and MA to get the driver and sonotube...but I get about 40 mpg, so less than $20 for gas...and time is free, right!?!?). I had to make an extension for my router's circle jig, and then the endplates could be made.

    So the Monster Sonosub is in the works. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to go a little overboard. Luckily my wife lets me do stupid stuff sometimes. We're both in agreement that this is a little bit much, but it should be interesting.

    Related, prebuild threads: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=217719
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=217745

    Hopefully sometime over the Memorial Day weekend, I'll get a chance to assemble the parts and test this beast. If all goes well, I will make it look nice with some fabric covering for the sonotube, and some MDF endcap covers. A few years ago, I picked up a nice piece of 3/4" BB plywood that was being thrown out. I'll cut a nice baseplate and legs out of the BB.




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    Last edited by john trials; 05-26-2010 at 10:41 AM.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    3,313

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    I need to find some generous people like that!

    Should be a killer sub! Can't wait to see some results!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    chesterfield michigan
    Posts
    221

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    you could turn that thing loose in the Gulf and blast the oil back out to sea that has come to shore lol. that is huge. !!
    david golemba
    chesterfield michigan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by gorbs View Post
    you could turn that thing loose in the Gulf and blast the oil back out to sea that has come to shore lol. that is huge. !!
    Before I went to pick up the sonotube, I measured the corner of the room where I plan on placing this, and I measured my car to make sure the sonotube would fit (I was going on a 3 hour round-trip to get it, so I wanted to make sure it would fit). I figured, 24" isn't too big, right?

    When I finally saw the sonotube, I was AMAZED at how large it was. 24" with a tape measure isn't big. But take 24" into 2 dimensions, then make that over 7' long...WOW. It is big. I had to cut about 10" off it to get it into my car. The resonance from the tube inside the car was interesting.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by john trials View Post
    Before I went to pick up the sonotube, I measured the corner of the room where I plan on placing this, and I measured my car to make sure the sonotube would fit (I was going on a 3 hour round-trip to get it, so I wanted to make sure it would fit). I figured, 24" isn't too big, right?

    When I finally saw the sonotube, I was AMAZED at how large it was. 24" with a tape measure isn't big. But take 24" into 2 dimensions, then make that over 7' long...WOW. It is big. I had to cut about 10" off it to get it into my car. The resonance from the tube inside the car was interesting.
    If measly 3-ways with a 12" are considered monkey coffins on this board, then what name can be given to something that larger.

    I think we need a pic of you inside that tube to fully illustrate the size.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Groton, MA
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    John,

    Looking forward to see how this goes. I forgot, but when we spoke did you say how you would “cover” the tube itself? Below is how I had finished mine off when I had it. As you can see I just used some left over carpet I had so it somewhat matched the room.

    James


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by exojam View Post
    John,

    Looking forward to see how this goes. I forgot, but when we spoke did you say how you would “cover” the tube itself? Below is how I had finished mine off when I had it. As you can see I just used some left over carpet I had so it somewhat matched the room.

    James
    James (exojam) is the generous sonotube donor. That looks like a great cat-scratching post!

    I'm not sure how I'm going to cover it. I don't have anything laying around the house, so I'm actually going to have to spend money to get this to look good. I read in one sonosub thread that someone used a bed sheet, which I think is a good idea, if it's thick enough to be opaque. I'll need something that is approx 71" x 75", and most fabric doesn't come that wide.

    I'm planning on trying it without any lining this weekend, but from what I've read, I'm going to need to line the inner walls (probably with a open-cell foam mattress pad or something similar. I don't want to deal with the huge amount of fiberglass that would be needed to cover the inside of this thing).
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  8. #8

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by john trials View Post
    James (exojam) is the generous sonotube donor. That looks like a great cat-scratching post!

    I'm not sure how I'm going to cover it. I don't have anything laying around the house, so I'm actually going to have to spend money to get this to look good. I read in one sonosub thread that someone used a bed sheet, which I think is a good idea, if it's thick enough to be opaque. I'll need something that is approx 71" x 75", and most fabric doesn't come that wide.

    I'm planning on trying it without any lining this weekend, but from what I've read, I'm going to need to line the inner walls (probably with a open-cell foam mattress pad or something similar. I don't want to deal with the huge amount of fiberglass that would be needed to cover the inside of this thing).
    Check out "Ultratouch" cotton insulation. Effectively an easy-to-handle fiberglass for your app. You'll want to use speaker grille cloth and some sort of fasteners to lock it down as it'll shake loose (as will any non-coherent material) when that sub is put to use. None of it will make a lot of difference at bass freqs. If it were me I'd probably get my tuning figured out, slightly higher Q than final, and wrap the inner 8" duct to entirely fill the gap to the outer. This will kill top-bottom modes which are the major concern for your app.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    853

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan O View Post
    If measly 3-ways with a 12" are considered monkey coffins on this board, then what name can be given to something that larger.
    Caisson-o-sub!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    19,204
    Blog Entries
    29

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    One concern- Can you downfire that 18"???? I would be thinking it has too much Mms to be optimal.
    Maybe you could make an added baffle like I did:



    Possibly use the cutoff 10" section to adapt a baffle.
    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    One concern- Can you downfire that 18"???? I would be thinking it has too much Mms to be optimal.
    Maybe you could make an added baffle like I did:


    Possibly use the cutoff 10" section to adapt a baffle.
    Later,
    Wolf
    I've seen a few sonotube build threads with this driver at HTGuide and AVSforum. They've run them downfiring. That doesn't mean downfiring it is right, but I'm going to do it anyway.

    I'm not being too serious/technical with this build (although I did try WinISD for the first time!). I mainly want to have fun, and learn about subs (and room gain) in the process. Making it downfiring in a sonotube is about as simple as it can be. This is going to be used exclusively for movies. I just want some BOOOM!

    This past winter, I made a 'high quality' sub...sealed RSS315HF...I wanted to make that downfiring for aesthetic reasons, but I eventually made it side-firing, because I wanted that sub to be as good as it could be.

    This driver has been sitting unused for about 4-5 years, probably in the upward facing position. Facing it downward may balance the sag it has gotten over the years.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Louavulle, KY
    Posts
    964

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    On bracing - shouldn't need any radial bracing, but may need some top-bottom. When I built my tube subs, I ran 3 2" dowels 120 degrees apart from top to bottom plate. With gorilla glue and 3" drywall screws, it 'pulled' the ends together through the tube.
    You'd need some serious lengthy dowels, though

    Cheers / Robert

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Howell NJ
    Posts
    7,119

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    he can use two 2 by fours. with a few cross pieces of mdf the mdf would hold the inner port still. worse case is it may vibrate. he may need triple thick end caps. 2.25 inches. it should be a beast. does anyone have a link to el pipe o a huge sonotube build in speaker builder 10 years ago

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MN
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Man, this is gonna' be one heck of a "budget" sub!

    Regarding bracing/lining there's a great thread from a while back at AVSForum where a member took an afternoon to test the effects of adding stuffing around the port, the results were quite impressive. Without anything there is a large null/peak around 92hz (the sonotube is about 1/2 wavelength of 92hz). Simply adding pillows around the port completely removed it. The sonotube was not braced but did not show any panel resonances. Based on the measurements in the link below I would skip the bracing (that's if it was me - it won't hurt to do some bracing) but definitely add stuffing around the port:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1141956

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
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    749

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Thanks (everyone) for all of the advice. I probably will need a bit of bracing, as part of the sonotube is delaminated due to moisture. It's a little soft in one area.

    That link with the pillows for stuffing was interesting. Good info. I will eventually get something to line the insides (foam mattress pad and pillows for stuffing, and a black bed sheet to cover the outside...seems like I need a trip to a bedding store).

    I'm going to try it this weekend with no stuffing or bracing (because I haven't gotten that far yet...I know I will have to add both, I just want to play with it and see how much bracing and stuffing are needed). My first test probably won't sound too good. I plan on just press fitting everything together (maybe some screws to keep things in place). I'm not ready for glue yet. I just want to hear what the explosions in "The Incredibles" sound like with this sonosub for now.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,966

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post
    ...there is a large null/peak around 92hz (the sonotube is about 1/2 wavelength of 92hz). Simply adding pillows around the port completely removed it.
    This is why I mentioned in the other thread that ideally something this large should be modelled in capable software that could predict quarter wave resonances. In some cases, WinISD's shortcomings are anything but trivial. A few minutes of modelling with a capable program can save hours (or days) of measure, tweak, measure, tweak, etc. - and that assumes that you build it so that you can access the insides, which is not advisable due to strength issues.

    FWIW, a large null around 92 hz is exactly what you don't want (unless you xo considerably lower than this), since the room will probably also have a large null around that area as well due to ceiling to floor height in most typical modern houses. The room induced null will usually be a bit lower than 92 hz but still it's a bit too close for comfort.

    Anyway, assuming your xo point is low (40 or 50 hz for example) you don't need to worry about any of this too much but extra bandwidth is nice even if you don't plan on using it right away.

    ...part of the sonotube is delaminated due to moisture. It's a little soft in one area.
    This, on the other hand, might be worth worrying about, depending on how bad the damage is and how loud you make it play. Remember, sonotube is just cardboard and it's strength is dependant on it's shape. That's why it's more likely that even thick, strong endcaps will blow out before the tube crumples. If one area is soft it may be easily misshapen and then the structural integrity goes way down. That's also why side to side bracing is not recommended unless it is carefully implemented and perfectly shaped to preserve the sonotube's shape or it could do more harm than good. End to end bracing is always good though, if possible, as the endcaps and endcap joints are usually the weakest (most prone to failure) part of a sonosub.
    Don't even try
    to sort out the lies
    it's worse to try to understand.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    With the delamination of the sonotube, I applied some wood glue in between the delaminated layers. Then I clamped the sonotube with some 2x4s cut with the 24" diameter curve in them. The sonotube is now really rigid where it was once pretty soft. I am still going to install a few extra plywood rings inside the sonotube to support the shape. My plan is to glue the plywood end caps and bracing with some PL Premium construction adhesive. It should be pretty solid.
    Last edited by john trials; 05-28-2010 at 02:02 PM.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Groton, MA
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    I stil feel bad that happened to the tube and you have to deal with it

    By the way, have you checked out the sonosub program? Google for sonosub.exe to find it. I used it when I built mine.

    James

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
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    749

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by exojam View Post
    I stil feel bad that happened to the tube and you have to deal with it

    By the way, have you checked out the sonosub program? Google for sonosub.exe to find it. I used it when I built mine.

    James
    James, I told you...don't feel badly about the sonotube damage. I don't mind, plus I can't complain, as you gave it to me for nothing. I'm mainly happy to get it for free, and use something that was probably going to just collect dust or go to the landfill (yeah, I'm a little bit of a tree-hugger!).

    It was actually a fun challenge to try and come up with a way to fix it. I'm amazed at how the glue between the layers has done such a nice job at stiffening up that area.

    I have tried the sonosub program. It's a nice program with an easy interface. It states I should have a 96Hz resonance and to add stuffing/lining aroung the port/top cap.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    1,592

    Default Re: Monster Sonosub build

    Quote Originally Posted by exojam View Post
    I stil feel bad that happened to the tube and you have to deal with it

    By the way, have you checked out the sonosub program? Google for sonosub.exe to find it. I used it when I built mine.

    James
    Ahh, beat me to it. I was going to suggest checking out Bob's site at www.subwoofer-builder.com, and getting that (and the others) handy tool! Probably a lot of good tips for you there.

    This will be quite the build! What kind of F3, max SPL level, etc is it modeling out to? Too bad they don't have that smilie of a house shaking, then falling in pieces on this board... would be appropriate!

    "Remember, if it's worth doing at all, it's worth OVERDOING!"

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