Single 3" driver help

[Simpletone]

I have done a couple of projects using the Tang Band W3-1053SC 3" full range driver. They are for my 2 channel computer setup and to be moved around the house connected to an iPod. I really like the sound of these drivers!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-880

Because of my lack of speaker building knowledge, the first project was built using a stuffed and sealed 1.5 liter enclosure. These were run full range with no filtering. The sound quality was impressive although lacking in the low end and SPL. This was to be expected with an 85 dB driver powered by a TA2020 t-amp in a sealed enclosure.

Next I wanted to see if I could get more out of the W3-1053s, but be within the size limitation of my desktop application. I built a ported design to increase the low end. The cabinets are smaller than what is recommended for this driver. I used WinISD to model a compromised 2.2 liter enclosure using a 1" x 4" round port. This increases the bass response significantly, as long as there is a wall nearby, ie. behind my desk.

With the ported design however, which is also run full range, the bass becomes "garbled" at higher volumes. I verified that its not due to the t-amp clipping by hooking up an honest 100-watt amp and had the same results. There is also some harshness present in the upper-midrange.

To address the "garbled" bass issue, I've ordered capacitors to cut off the lower frequencies below 60 hz. Hopefully this will clean things up.

I've been reading that a BSC circuit can help reduce the harsh upper-mids. I have no knowledge about this circuit other than some examples for specific drivers found online.

I'm hoping somebody out there can help me design a BSC circuit to work with this driver. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

[jettore]

Here's another project with the same driver in a larger enclosure. Might be some useful info.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ight=W3-1053SC

[Simpletone]

Thanks, I didn't see Brian's single driver version. I think its just what I needed!!

[Æ]

You're expecting too much from that driver, it has an underhung voice coil and isn't capable of a whole lot of output to begin with. I bet your garbled midrange is because you are driving it too hard. You are already limited in the SPL department, adding a baffle step will only make things worse. Like you said previously, better back it up against a wall if you want any bass.

I have done a couple of projects using the Tang Band W3-1053SC 3" full range driver. They are for my 2 channel computer setup and to be moved around the house connected to an iPod. I really like the sound of these drivers!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-880

Because of my lack of speaker building knowledge, the first project was built using a stuffed and sealed 1.5 liter enclosure. These were run full range with no filtering. The sound quality was impressive although lacking in the low end and SPL. This was to be expected with an 85 dB driver powered by a TA2020 t-amp in a sealed enclosure.

Next I wanted to see if I could get more out of the W3-1053s, but be within the size limitation of my desktop application. I built a ported design to increase the low end. The cabinets are smaller than what is recommended for this driver. I used WinISD to model a compromised 2.2 liter enclosure using a 1" x 4" round port. This increases the bass response significantly, as long as there is a wall nearby, ie. behind my desk.

With the ported design however, which is also run full range, the bass becomes "garbled" at higher volumes. I verified that its not due to the t-amp clipping by hooking up an honest 100-watt amp and had the same results. There is also some harshness present in the upper-midrange.

To address the "garbled" bass issue, I've ordered capacitors to cut off the lower frequencies below 60 hz. Hopefully this will clean things up.

I've been reading that a BSC circuit can help reduce the harsh upper-mids. I have no knowledge about this circuit other than some examples for specific drivers found online.

I'm hoping somebody out there can help me design a BSC circuit to work with this driver. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

[Chris Roemer]

Thanks, I didn't see Brian's single driver version. I think its just what I needed!!

If you use WinISD Pro (the alpha version), you can look at the screen that shows maximum power. In your latest box, that woofer is OK with a 2 watt input, but at 3 watts, it's driven into overexcursion around 120 Hz. That's why the power curve is scooped out. From right to left, as the frequencies drop (below 200 Hz), the excursion requirements go up, limiting the power that can be applied before trouble sets in. Past (to the left of) 120 Hz or so, the power handling increases due to the port providing output.

If you plot your initial sealed/stuffed box also, you'll see its power curve drops down to 2 watts, and never rises again, because there's no port. It wouldn't matter if TB used a humongoid voice coil so that they could rate the driver at 100w RMS, it is EXCURSION LIMITED, even at 120 Hz. Relieving the sub 60 Hz signal wont't really help you, you've got to relieve the power from about 200 Hz down.

If you model a different 3", the Dayton Neo ND90-8 (when you enter its parms into WinISD, use 6mm for the Xmax, as its advertised specs are 4mm Xmax, and 10mm Xlim), you'll see that it can take GOBS more power, and even though it's not as efficient, it can take enough power to play twice as loud as your TB ( 3dB louder ), all the way down past the mid 40's.

The Xmax is the key. Actually, you can even get by hitting 8mm of throw w/out causing any damage to the woofer. It's similar to an amp that has soft clipping.

Chris

[Simpletone]

Yea, I was afraid that it was a limited Xmax issue. I didn't realize that the over excursion occurred around 120 hz. I guess my expectations were too high. Probably best to cross over around 200 hz and use a sub.

I chose this driver over some of the others with greater Xmax because of the better high frequency response...no need for a separate tweeter.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[nick29498141]

You're expecting too much from that driver, it has an underhung voice coil and isn't capable of a whole lot of output to begin with. I bet your garbled midrange is because you are driving it too hard. You are already limited in the SPL department, adding a baffle step will only make things worse. Like you said previously, better back it up against a wall if you want any bass.

I second this, corner loading a 100hz FS driver should help a bit in the mid/bass.

NK

[nick29498141]

As one of the board's esoterics I would recommend a small, front-loaded folded horn, albeit for a different driver. I can see why you like that driver, the price is great and the build quality looks well, too. If it were me, I'd mount it facing the ceiling, with some sort of diffuser for an "omni" design, that would give you room to bottom port it, and couple it to the desk with some spikes or outriggers for the added bass: your desk would becoming a radiating plane adding to the bass at it's FS. Just more ideas from a bleeding-edge, lunatic-fringe fellah.

NK

[nick29498141]

I have done a couple of projects using the Tang Band W3-1053SC 3" full range driver. They are for my 2 channel computer setup and to be moved around the house connected to an iPod. I really like the sound of these drivers!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-880

Because of my lack of speaker building knowledge, the first project was built using a stuffed and sealed 1.5 liter enclosure. These were run full range with no filtering. The sound quality was impressive although lacking in the low end and SPL. This was to be expected with an 85 dB driver powered by a TA2020 t-amp in a sealed enclosure.

Next I wanted to see if I could get more out of the W3-1053s, but be within the size limitation of my desktop application. I built a ported design to increase the low end. The cabinets are smaller than what is recommended for this driver. I used WinISD to model a compromised 2.2 liter enclosure using a 1" x 4" round port. This increases the bass response significantly, as long as there is a wall nearby, ie. behind my desk.

With the ported design however, which is also run full range, the bass becomes "garbled" at higher volumes. I verified that its not due to the t-amp clipping by hooking up an honest 100-watt amp and had the same results. There is also some harshness present in the upper-midrange.

To address the "garbled" bass issue, I've ordered capacitors to cut off the lower frequencies below 60 hz. Hopefully this will clean things up.

I've been reading that a BSC circuit can help reduce the harsh upper-mids. I have no knowledge about this circuit other than some examples for specific drivers found online.

I'm hoping somebody out there can help me design a BSC circuit to work with this driver. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Hey,

I DL'd the spec sheet for the amp, and looking at the distortion vs load graph, I'd say that it's a 10w (8ohm) - 15w (4ohm) jobber. The 25w specs are at 10 PERCENT distortion which is just scary. With that in mind, maximizing bass in a lower-eff. driver will be tough with that power behind it. BSC, is, IMO, a non-no as it would just suck power away from an already low-power system. Have you considered the possibility (besides the other well-qualified and good responses in the thread) adding a cheap (buyout) and small passive sub to fill out the bass a bit?

NK - I'll look for a driver... "...I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew!!"

[nick29498141]

Hey,

I DL'd the spec sheet for the amp, and looking at the distortion vs load graph, I'd say that it's a 10w (8ohm) - 15w (4ohm) jobber. The 25w specs are at 10 PERCENT distortion which is just scary. With that in mind, maximizing bass in a lower-eff. driver will be tough with that power behind it. BSC, is, IMO, a non-no as it would just suck power away from an already low-power system. Have you considered the possibility (besides the other well-qualified and good responses in the thread) adding a cheap (buyout) and small passive sub to fill out the bass a bit?

NK - I'll look for a driver... "...I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew!!"

In keeping with the low-price theme, there are some decent (and exceptional) drivers in the buyout section that may peak your interest...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...learanceCenter

It's under $9 and can hit 50hz or so, in a relatively small "under desk" cabinet. Same sensitivity as the mains, which is nice, too. The Qts is a bit high, but should work out for your application.

The only reason I'm extending these offerings is that I think you've basically reached the mechanical limits of your driver (race all out!), and to get better bass and to clear up your "garble" issues, you should work to take some stress from the little driver.

NK

[Simpletone]

Nick,

I appreciate your help. The "omni" design sounds interesting. As far as a small sub goes, been there done that. I've used a Dayton 105-4 under the desk with great results running the t-amp into a plate amp w/ hi-level inputs.

But I want something more portable to be able to move around. I just like the sound of the TB drivers and wanted to get the most out of them.

Someday I'd like to venture into the world of horns. Sounds like you could really help me with that.

Pat

[nick29498141]

Here's a 1khz-4khz screenshot of the TB FR/Imp. graph. Note the valley, then slight peak... That may have something to do with the "harshness" you're experiencing.

[IMG][/IMG]

NK

[nick29498141]

Nick,


Someday I'd like to venture into the world of horns. Sounds like you could really help me with that.

Pat

Don't expect too much, once you hit my "mechanical limit" you'll only hear "garble" from me.

NK

[Simpletone]

The valley and small peak could be the reason for the harshness or shout as I've heard it called. I've actually compared 3 or 4 other 3" drivers including the well reviewed Fountek FR88 and the TB sounded better in my application by far.

The others were real shouty sounding. The TBs are easy to listen to.

[nick29498141]

The valley and small peak could be the reason for the harshness or shout as I've heard it called. I've actually compared 3 or 4 other 3" drivers including the well reviewed Fountek FR88 and the TB sounded better in my application by far.

The others were real shouty sounding. The TBs are easy to listen to.

Cool, glad you've found a nice driver... Great price, too! I'm sure some xover magic could resolve that, but I'm not the guy. Wolf/Jeff B./Curt C./Pete S. would be my go-tos on that subject.

NK

[brianpowers27]

So far, when I have used this drivr in true full range capacity the speaker is placed fluish against the wall. The tuning is a little higher so it produces a slight hump in the 120hz range. I find it sounds good crossed to a sub around 100hz. I am using it in a computer 2.1 setup.

THe speakers will take much more power when the bass is limited. They actually sound pretty nice as a mid in a 3 way and will take about 15 honest watts when crossed around 400hz. (http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=213789)