dayton reference 10HF

[jachristmas]

hello, wanting to know some box specs on this driver, wanting to use this in my truck install. want to try to go ported with a tuning of around 27-30hz. how much air space and port area does this driver like. I have up to 1.5-2 cuft I can get and I have a 400wrms amp to drive the sub. I can use the HO driver if need be I think it works in a smaller box than the HF but would like the HF if possiable

thanks

[Pete Schumacher ®]

hello, wanting to know some box specs on this driver, wanting to use this in my truck install. want to try to go ported with a tuning of around 27-30hz. how much air space and port area does this driver like. I have up to 1.5-2 cuft I can get and I have a 400wrms amp to drive the sub. I can use the HO driver if need be I think it works in a smaller box than the HF but would like the HF if possiable

thanks

You'll get much better sound quality if you build a sealed version.

[fastbike1]

Pete, Among others, Wolf has consistently said not to put the HF in a sealed box because of "oil canning". Has this not been a problem for you?

You'll get much better sound quality if you build a sealed version.

[evilskillit]

You'll get much better sound quality if you build a sealed version.

Based on what Pete? Peaking low end response in a ported enclosure based on cabin gain? Because I would think that could be taken into account (I'm trying it on my build).

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Pete, Among others, Wolf has consistently said not to put the HF in a sealed box because of "oil canning". Has this not been a problem for you?

Just don't use too small an enclosure and you're fine. Also, a leaky box will help (resistive vent).

Based on what Pete? Peaking low end response in a ported enclosure based on cabin gain? Because I would think that could be taken into account (I'm trying it on my build).

Yes. Extending the response with a vented alignment causes a peak in response due to cabin gain. Sealed alignments roll off at the same rate as cabin gain increases, giving both the most extended low end, and the smoothest response.

Yeah, you can EQ the peak out, but why? You need a larger box to do the vented option.

Vented subs in cars are for competition. sealed subs are used for SQ.

[evilskillit]

Just don't use too small an enclosure and you're fine. Also, a leaky box will help (resistive vent).



Yes. Extending the response with a vented alignment causes a peak in response due to cabin gain. Sealed alignments roll off at the same rate as cabin gain increases, giving both the most extended low end, and the smoothest response.

Yeah, you can EQ the peak out, but why? You need a larger box to do the vented option.

Vented subs in cars are for competition. sealed subs are used for SQ.

Actually per modeling I can use a smaller box and get more efficiency with my 2 8" subs if I use a ported box instead of a sealed one. The roll off rate is almost the same as sealed except 3db louder. I did a bit of modeling and changed the roll off rate to be a bit shallower per the tuning than sealed to create a slight rise in response down to 20hz, creating what some people on the HT guide call "A house curve" if you're familiar with that.

I know its not flat or true response but I think for the sort of rockin stuff I listen to in my car it'll sound "better" to me, also my car is pretty noisy, especially in the LF range and I think that'll help overcome the road noise. Its less accurate but I think in my particular situation it'll sound subjectively better. (The extra sensitivity should mean lower distortion at moderate listening volumes).

What drivers? These http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w8-670q.htm
Why? Because I'm a cheap dude and I got em for next to nothing. Why 2? I tried 1 in a sealed box and it wasn't nearly loud enough, didn't play low enough and seemed like it might be distorting a bit.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Actually per modeling I can use a smaller box and get more efficiency with my 2 8" subs if I use a ported box instead of a sealed one. The roll off rate is almost the same as sealed except 3db louder. I did a bit of modeling and changed the roll off rate to be a bit shallower per the tuning than sealed to create a slight rise in response down to 20hz, creating what some people on the HT guide call "A house curve" if you're familiar with that.

I know its not flat or true response but I think for the sort of rockin stuff I listen to in my car it'll sound "better" to me, also my car is pretty noisy, especially in the LF range and I think that'll help overcome the road noise. Its less accurate but I think in my particular situation it'll sound subjectively better. (The extra sensitivity should mean lower distortion and moderate listening volumes).

good approach. smaller than optimal boxes and deeper than normal tuning will give you that shallower and more extended roll off.

[evilskillit]

good approach. smaller than optimal boxes and deeper than normal tuning will give you that shallower and more extended roll off.

I'm glad you like it. So its not that a ported box in a car leads to worse sound quality. Its that if you don't know what you're doing then the results may not be good. So yeah, do your research, if you want a ported box take cabin gain into account or you'll end up with some horrible boom box like every other dude who went to best buy and bought some generic ported box.

The speakers I'm using may have something to do with it too. I do recall when playing with Unibox one day and trying to find a good ported sub box for a car for a RSS319hf-4 that I ended up saying sealed would be the way to go because I couldn't figure out a ported alignment that worked, but that was a year or 2 ago. I've gotten smarter since then.

[jachristmas]

any specs? not good with box modeling programs

[evilskillit]

any specs? not good with box modeling programs

I'm eating a burrito, I'll see if I can whip something up in a minute

Edit: After playing around with WinISd including some transforms that roughly simulate cabin gain, unless you want a huge huge boost in the low end with the reference HF subs you're better off just going sealed. You could use a 1 cubic foot box tuned to about 25hz, but the port would need to be 50 inches long. It can't work. Looking at different passive radiators you might be able to find one of those to work for you but your best bet is probably 1 to 1.5 cubic foot sealed box with moderate stuffing.

[fastbike1]

Pete, just a bit more advice please. The RSS265HF models really well in 29liters sealed, but Wolf was adament: don't put in a sealed box. the 265HF also models well in 60-65 liters ported.

So, what would "not too small a box be"? 40L,? This model is 105dB, f3 36Hz, f6 28Hz. Thanks

Just don't use too small an enclosure and you're fine. Also, a leaky box will help (resistive vent).

[evilskillit]

Well here is a graph of what the response of these two builds might look like in your car with the windows up. Don't worry too much about the DB specifically, I didn't do this to show you "hey this is really loud" and the db may not represent any real numbers. Pay more attention simply to the frequency response curve of one vs the other.

Obviously they won't behave exactly like this, but you can expect something sort of like this to occur when you put a sub into a car. Hence why people recommend you stay away from ported boxes in a car, unless you really know what you're doing. Using some subs I have I was able to get a good roll off in car with a ported box, but they Dayton Reference subs aren't wanting to play that game.

[Wolf]

FWIW, the HO models well in both vented and sealed boxes, so why fiddle with the issue with the HF in a car where you want smaller boxes and the ability to create higher pressure output? The cone is thicker on the HO too, another plus!

I've heard the RSS265HF in ~20 ltrs sealed, 28 ltrs sealed, 43 ltrs sealed, and other vented/TL/Aperiodic types. The smallest I would go is 1.5ft^3 (about 43 ltrs), and even then the AP-vent was required at higher outputs to avoid the issue. In a car that can be pretty big!

From what I understand, the HO can work into as small as 22 ltrs sealed and work well with the right circumstances. It can work in very small vented boxes as well, requiring a slot port.

Later,
Wolf

[evilskillit]

From what I understand, the HO can work into as small as 22 ltrs sealed and work well with the right circumstances. It can work in very small vented boxes as well, requiring a slot port.

Later,
Wolf

Yeah wolf, playing around including simulated cabin gain I couldn't get the peak in the low bass range with the HO down until I was it was like a 0.3 cu ft box tuned to below 30hz, which of course required a vent something like 50 inches long. You' need go go with a PR at that point darn near.