Onsei - My Iowa Entry - soliciting opinions

[tpremo55]

I'm soliciting feedback and perceptions of my IowaDIY entry - the Onseis. I hesitated to put his call out (maybe too long now) but have always valued the feedback. I want the benefits of your thoughts and opinions as I am trying to decide whether to crack them back open and play with them some more, or leave them as-is and enjoy them.

For those of you like me who don't remember the name of every design, here is the speaker for which I am looking for your thoughts:


(photo compliments of Ron E)

Thanks!

[johnnyrichards]

Personally, I couldn't believe the amount of bass out of those two woofers - even in a bass friendly place like we were in.

I don't have any recollection of anything else that stood out, and that is a good thing, right?

[tpremo55]

Oh! Please let me know where you were sitting when you respond! Facing the speakers in listening position, front-middle-back and left-center-right. For instance, I was sitting middle-right for most of the show.

Thanks Johnny, I forgot to mention that.

Yes, I seem to have an interesting set of listening/voicing venues that tend to leave me guessing. The past two years (and now 2010 makes a trend of three) I noticed huge differences between where I am at home in my basement, home in my family room, and at the DIY event. I'll say they sound much more balanced in the bass region in my family room, but still a bit robust (ok, boomy) - which lets them REALLY boom in Grinnell. More on that later. I was not happy with the bottom end in Grinnell - but am looking for other feedback as well.

[Wolf]

This may not have been very easy to hear, but those EX6.5 woofers have a tendency to 'overhang' a bit. This can muddy up midrange due to some IMD of the cone on longer excursions. I personally don't think the motor is strong enough to rule this issue out completely, and you may or may not notice it either.
I couldn't seem to hear any of that last weekend, but maybe someone else did.

Later,
Wolf

[tpremo55]

BTW - as many of you who heard them in Grinnell could likely imagine, I had these hooked up the other day when we watch IronMan2. They held their own VERY well without a sub and never showed signs of stress. Mind you, we were listening at reasonably loud levels, but not true theater levels. Not really what I was going for, but fun all the same.

[tpremo55]

This may not have been very easy to hear, but those EX6.5 woofers have a tendency to 'overhang' a bit. This can muddy up midrange due to some IMD of the cone on longer excursions. I personally don't think the motor is strong enough to rule this issue out completely, and you may or may not notice it either.
I couldn't seem to hear any of that last weekend, but maybe someone else did.

Later,
Wolf

Thanks Wolf - I'll hold my comments on this until I get some other feedback, but I was able to A/B these with the Statements in my Family room. That was interesting. It's always great to have a top notch design as the model of where to go. ...more later.

[martyh]

Todd,

I was charmed by the beauty of the design - it's elegance and simplicity, but that's not what you're asking about.

While I don't feel the mid-bass was muddy at all I thought it was more of a designed BBC dip centered around the 1800 hz range, and that's a presentation I personally prefer in a design. I liked the SB tweeter performance, and wish all the drivers were still available as they'd be worthy successors to the Eros MKII's that have been my main set for the past 6 years. Some may suggest reworking that area of the x/o, but I believe some of that was a result of the room which seemed a bit boomier this year than l remember.

For what it's worth I was the one who said I'd want those in my home.

Well done!

[tpremo55]

Good ear Marty, they do indeed have a ~2dB dip from average centered around 1400 - a bit lower (and more pronounced) if you were much off axis. I too tend to prefer this, in fact had flatter responses, but none that I liked better than this. ...so far.



Thanks for the kind words and the vote for "like them in your family room".

Sadly, I missed your Buccaneers and regret not hearing them. I so enjoyed your coppers last year and see many high accolades for your Bucs in the forums.

[Chris Roemer]

Good ear Marty, they do indeed have a ~2dB dip from average centered around 1400 - a bit lower (and more pronounced) if you were much off axis. I too tend to prefer this, in fact had flatter responses, but none that I liked better than this. ...so far.



Thanks for the kind words and the vote for "like them in your family room".

Sadly, I missed your Buccaneers and regret not hearing them. I so enjoyed your coppers last year and see many high accolades for your Bucs in the forums.

Hey Todd.

I've got Arlis and you down in my "sparse" notes as systems 13 and 14, so fully half of the entrants had already played by that time. Of those 12 (which were a bit out of my "preferred" price range - which is $55 ;-) ). I thought half of those were "excellent" full range systems that I'd be very proud to own with absolutely no changes.

I also "starred" both of your designs, which I felt both stood up to the very high standards that had been set, AND which I felt would be within my budget to build. I think (IIRC) that the majority of the systems after yours fell slightly short in one area or another. I've also got a note that the Onseis seemed to have a little nicer imaging than other designs. I'd love to have a pair.

I was seated in the 7th row, center.

Chris

[tom_s]

Todd, I'm in the same boat as you regarding what my speakers sounded like at Grinnell vs. here at home. I was just starting to write a thread about this very topic too! I have a fairly bright sounding man-cave in the basement. I'm working on some treatments, mainly for 1st reflections now. I knew my room was bright going in this year and so I used my HDS entries from 2009 to gauge for upper mid and tweeter level. Even armed with that knowledge, I think mine could have used a little more in the upper-mids - especially after hearing how much more bass they had in the auditorium. If there was any floor bounce cancellation going on, it kept mine from sounding as bloated as they did when I drug them upstairs to my living room the Friday before.

I was sitting about in the center of my row but was up and down, getting mine measured across the hall just before yours were up. They were boomy at the back of the room by the tables, but so was everything back there. They tightened up as I came forward. I remember I liked the bass and was wondering what woofers you had used, since I missed your intro. I'm not in complete agreement with Wolf on the tweeter. I really enjoyed the sound of the dimple domes presented that day. Did they sound natural? Hmmmm. Hard to say in an unfamiliar environment. And I really have not heard many speakers that sound natural enough to actually let me forget about the speakers. But that also may be because of my own idiosyncrasies. BBC dip...If I heard a little in yours, I didn't think it was a detriment to enjoying the sound at all. I designed some into mine as well and it seemed even more pronounced compared to what I hear at home, but that's my room coming into play to some extent. Everything said, I really liked the Onseis. I could surely live with them for quite while!

[tpremo55]

Hey Todd.

I've got Arlis and you down in my "sparse" notes as systems 13 and 14, so fully half of the entrants had already played by that time. Of those 12 (which were a bit out of my "preferred" price range - which is $55 ;-) ). I thought half of those were "excellent" full range systems that I'd be very proud to own with absolutely no changes.

I also "starred" both of your designs, which I felt both stood up to the very high standards that had been set, AND which I felt would be within my budget to build. I think (IIRC) that the majority of the systems after yours fell slightly short in one area or another. I've also got a note that the Onseis seemed to have a little nicer imaging than other designs. I'd love to have a pair.

I was seated in the 7th row, center.

Chris

Thanks Chris - I'd say you were probably as close to the intended listening position as you could be. You were probably on level with the tweeter and setting center stage.

One note on the pricing though, to be fair, the price listed was what I have in them. There are many temporary opportunities to get drivers on buyout at reduced prices (sometimes drastically). As this year was not a competition, I presented my actual spend. To get the "would be" cost, add $200 to the set as I bought the Exodus 6.5 drivers for $35ea (listed for $85 when they were available). This would likely reduce the perceived 'value' significantly. If I were creating a design that I offered up to the masses to build, then I would need to be sure to have current production drivers (and prices). But I'm not with this one. I was playing the opportunistic card and got a high value design as a result.

If I may Chris, in that position, what did you think of the bass-to-midrange balance?

[tpremo55]

Todd, I'm in the same boat as you regarding what my speakers sounded like at Grinnell vs. here at home. I was just starting to write a thread about this very topic too!

Kick it off, I notice big differences. For a number of years now, I've heard designs at my house, or Jim's place that sound great, but when taken to the event sound much different. So much that I have begun to wonder whether my favorite design at IowaDIY would be my favorite at home. I need to design for where they will be.

I was sitting about in the center of my row but was up and down, getting mine measured across the hall just before yours were up. They were boomy at the back of the room by the tables, but so was everything back there. They tightened up as I came forward. I remember I liked the bass and was wondering what woofers you had used, since I missed your intro. I'm not in complete agreement with Wolf on the tweeter. I really enjoyed the sound of the dimple domes presented that day. Did they sound natural? Hmmmm. Hard to say in an unfamiliar environment. And I really have not heard many speakers that sound natural enough to actually let me forget about the speakers. But that also may be because of my own idiosyncrasies. BBC dip...If I heard a little in yours, I didn't think it was a detriment to enjoying the sound at all. I designed some into mine as well and it seemed even more pronounced compared to what I hear at home, but that's my room coming into play to some extent. Everything said, I really liked the Onseis. I could surely live with them for quite while!

You and Pete both walked the isles - I was hoping he would chime in with some comments as to his experience. Thanks for your perspective on that one. I am happy with the SB tweeter and would use it again although other options have presented themselves, like the RS28F, that I may have to try first. I will say that the SB tweeter takes a little extra massaging to get right. PaulK and I discussed this at the show, but we seemed to agree that you can get there with it.

Thanks Chris!

[Chris Roemer]

Thanks Chris - I'd say you were probably as close to the intended listening position as you could be. You were probably on level with the tweeter and setting center stage.

One note on the pricing though, to be fair, the price listed was what I have in them. There are many temporary opportunities to get drivers on buyout at reduced prices (sometimes drastically). As this year was not a competition, I presented my actual spend. To get the "would be" cost, add $200 to the set as I bought the Exodus 6.5 drivers for $35ea (listed for $85 when they were available). This would likely reduce the perceived 'value' significantly. If I were creating a design that I offered up to the masses to build, then I would need to be sure to have current production drivers (and prices). But I'm not with this one. I was playing the opportunistic card and got a high value design as a result.

If I may Chris, in that position, what did you think of the bass-to-midrange balance?

I've got no complaints written down. I've wondered (in an earlier IA thread) if there could have been a room mode up the midddle of the theater. I heard a LOT of presenters apologize ahead of time for what they thought would be limited bass output, but where I sat, almost all designs had strong bottoms. I can only think of one that really sounded muddy to me, and it wasn't yours.

Chris

[tpremo55]

I've got no complaints written down. I've wondered (in an earlier IA thread) if there could have been a room mode up the midddle of the theater. I heard a LOT of presenters apologize ahead of time for what they thought would be limited bass output, but where I sat, almost all designs had strong bottoms. I can only think of one that really sounded muddy to me, and it wasn't yours.

Chris

Yeah, I expected a little more 'boom' than where I listen at home. What surprised me just a bit (although it makes perfect sense) is that the boost in bass performance made the upper midbass and midrange sound a little thin. I heard this on other designs that I had heard in different venues as well.

Let me say again however, that I still think the venue at Grinnell is about as nice as we could expect to have it.